Hi all,
NIGHTMARE PM! PM AND TENANT FROM HELL!
Can someone tell me what can be done about such a PM. Can I seek compensation?
Story from the beginning. I built a new house on land. Brand new home finished in November 2008. This agent (one very popular franchise name in Victoria) found me a couple who wants to lease for 6 months, as a temporary residence while their new house is being built. The agent assured me these tenants are honest, clean, etc. Ok Sign up.
When they moved in, the inspection report was very meticulous and accurately done. Eg "wall small mark at which corner" etc.
5 months later, around early April, the tenants suddenly gave notice to vacate for 23rd April. I initially already had some disagreement with how this agent handled some of the matters - eg when i wanted to cancel the utility bills so the new tenants can transfer to their name, I was told by this PM that they do that "all part of the service", done by their "transfer agent". BUt all the while I keep receiving Electricity bills, water bills. Only the gas bill is directly sent to the tenant.
So with the notice I got that they are leaving on 23rd April, I arranged for advertisement to get a much higher rent than the PM can. The agent advertised for $250, but got no response. I advertised myself for $290, I got quite a few response, partly because the people looking at my ads were mainly expats, or people planning to move into Victoria and wanting to secure a place first. Ok I got someone who wanted to move in 24 April.
A few days before 23 April, I had this hunch I better call this agent to confirm 100% that their notice letter is still valid. I was told, "oh, the screen shows 6th May now". I made a bit of noise by complaining why I wasn't informed by a simple phone call or email. Ok I let that rest this time. I told our new potential tenants 6th May. I have to give them a discount rent for 4 weeks, to keep them interested.
1 day before 6th May, I called the PM again to make sure. They called the tenants and told me "not moving out 6th May, they want to move out 11 May". This time I was boiling! Why does this tenant keep changing their notice at the last minute? "OH because their builder hasn't completed their new home. Pls understand, these are good tenants who take good care of your house." I made a complaint to the director, and later that day was told the tenant's lease agreement is until 25th May. So they are giving early notice to leave, and they can change their mind anytime they like, as long as they havent returned the keys to PM. So I asked "does this mean they can keep playing this game with me everyday - promising key tomorrow, but not return the keys - until 25th May?" . Answer "Yes, unfortunately, this is how it is. But remember they still have to pay rent until their lease is complete if the property vacant".
So 11th may, I went to the property to do inspection report with PM. I was expecting to get the keys back today, but lots of cleaning stuff not done by tenant! PM made a list of things -
1) garbage all over the backyard needs to be cleaned
2)garbage all over the front yard needs to be removed
3) tenant's stuff in the garage still not removed
4)new oven not cleaned - had stains and grease all inside
She said the others are just wear and tear. But I noticed internal walls had kids' drawings on pen and crayon on some areas. Many parts of the walls had scratch marks, dents, here and there. This was a brand new property 5 months ago, and my 10 year old own home's internal wall is in better condition!!
I made a list of my own for tenant to clean:
1)kitchen benchtop not properly cleaned
2) sink not cleaned
3) external render wall had many chip marks (paint and render fell off as if some one used some tool to hit the wall - about 10 -11 holes). The PM said "oh maybe this is a building defect, the paint may be not good and fell off itself". I noted the other wall in front of garden is in perfect condition. So I insisted the PM to get the tenant to reimburse.
4)my builder complained to me that the tenants had thrown their heaps of rubbish and old stuff at the end of the road at the reserve land grass area.
Why the outgoing report is so casual? Everything is "fine". Filthy kitchen sink - fine. Filthy cabinet surfaces with greasy marks here and there - "fine".
So the agent says the tenant still has keys to the property and will come back to clean up the next day afternoon on 12th May. She assured me I will get the keys on late afternoon 12th May.
Next day, I drove 50km to Melton from the city, waited and waited, PM didn't call me and was out of office. I left message for my keys to be returned so I can let new tenant move in. Late afternoon, PM called me saying "I just called the tenants and she said her child is sick today, she is not cleaning up. But her husband will clean up after work this evening. You will get your keys tomorrow morning. I assure you". So I waited the whole day there for the keys for nothing (again)! I said "why do they keep breaking their notice?? if they are not serious about cleaning, lets get a professional and deduct from their bond". She said "no we can't, we got to give them time". But until WHEN? These tenants have a habit of delaying and breaking their notices at the last minute. PM said "no, they are very good tenants". Ya my a$$. So i was assured by PM -tomorrow I will get the keys and my new tenants can surely move in.
After that I had to call my new tenant and tell her she cant move in this evening (this would be the 3rd time telling her to move in another day).
I made sure I went to the PM office to leave a note of all the things that MUST be cleaned up by tenant. I wanted to see PM, she was in her office but just told her reception she has "no time, busy, not even for a quick word", but she has time to tell the reception what to tell me, and reception pass my message to her, and she tells me "tomorrow morning, PM will be at property 10am". In my opinion, this PM was a bit stuck up, arrogant, has bad communication skills, and helping the tenant mucking me around.
I sent a formal email to their office, CC to the director as well, to tell them to remember WHO they are working for and who pays them - OWNER, not tenant. Stop siding with these tenants who keep mucking me around, wasting my time, screwing up my plans. I had to tell my new tenants for 3rd time - last minute notice- that they cant move in. And i told the PM to inform me about things earlier! Don't always wait till last minute before I am supposed to get the the keys then tell me sorry no keys!
12 May - morning, I drove all the way from city to Melton again. At 9.20am, the reception called me saying the PM went to the property already (so it is obvious this PM doesn't want to see me or talk to me, as she told me meet there 10am yesterday). I arrived at 9.40am. GUESS WHAT?
Property was the same condition as yesterday. The tenants did not come back to clean yesterday as they promised. So they actually broke 2 promises to clean yesterday - one for noon, one for evening.
I had to tell my new tenant again (4th time) that she can't move in today. This time, the new tenant already had her stuff in a truck, ready to move!!!!
I went to the PM's director this time. Since I didn't get a call from the PM at all to update me what was happening. She was avoiding me.This time I went directly to her director at their office. He said "these tenants sent a fax at 9.30pm last night to our office, saying they got better things to do, their child is not feeling well, they are not cleaning up, they are offering $100 bond for you to clean up and get the wall fixed. They returned the keys". That's not enough! To remove those rubbish I got to hire a trailer or get someone to do it, $100 to clean up the whole house, remove rubbish and fix the paint/render??? Director said " Obviously these tenants are trying to smartarse and trying to get away with it because their mum is a real estate manager. We will give them a warning - 48 hours to clean up, or else surrender your whole bond for us to get professional cleaners to pay them".
Plus, he also told me that the tenant's mother is a real estate agent/manager who applied for a job with him before, but he rejected her because doesn't like her working style. So she doesn't like him and he doesn;t like her and them either! Plus, the fax was sent from the mum's real estate office!!
So I said "this could be done delebierately out of spite!!" . He said "nah, i don't think so". (yeah right) So on the 13 May, make it the 3rd time I went to Melton and received no keys!
So the next day, I got a call from the PM saying the tenants have cleaned up this time (within 24 hours! surprise what a little warning can do!). I told her, "this is what i have been telling you, stop listening to the tenant's lame excuses all the time and giving into their every demand. I dont like these tenants one bit!". Now she tells me " I dont like them either". (before this she kept telling me these are GREAT tenants.)
Now that I got the keys back on the 13th May, I assumed they will pay rent until 13. But no, the PM told me VCAT will allow tenants to return keys and give them 10 days grace to clean up the property. (Is this true? Im not sure. If it is, it is a stupid law). When I was renting in Sydney, the Pm there did not give 2nd changes to clean up. Either you clean up by the time the PM comes for conditions report, if not, deduct bond he will get professional himself!
And upon further questioning, the PM said rent is paid up to date. "Upp to what date?" I asked. "Up to 11 May". HOW can that be? Your director was telling me they didn't return the key until 12 May night or 13 May morning! And on the 11th, when we did our inspection, you said the tenant still has keys and will come back next day to clean up?". You know what she said?
"No actually they returned the set of keys on the kitchen bench on 11th May, I picked it up, thinking the tenant was still holding another copy(so she could come back to clean)." Conclusion 1: This PM doesn't even know how many sets of keys the tenants have!! Or when they returned it! She had no bloody idea! She must have been chasing the tenant for the keys and the tenants tell her "i left it there on the 11th!"
I asked further "so without keys, how do they expect to come in to finish up the cleaning?". You know what PM said? "THe tenant left the garage door unlocked on the 10th, so that he has free access to the property to clean up. But he doesn't have keys"!!!!!! How can they do that? "Well, they did that and nothing happen did it?" OMFG!!!! Melton is one of the highest crime rate area in Victoria, tenant can get in, so can ANYONE!
I remembered on the 11th, I noticed the garage door unlocked and I locked it from the inside. And on the 12th, I left a note inside the house for the tenants to see - a list of things that they must clean. And that list was faxed by the tenant's mum back to the PM office on the night of the 12th.
SO HOW DID THE TENANT GET ACCESS TO THE PROPERTY ON THE 12TH TO GET THEIR HANDS ON MY HANDWRITTEN NOTICE TO THEM? I locked the garage on 11th!
Conclusion: THis PM is either
(1)half asleep all the time - doesn;t know what she's doing at all
(2) doesn't care
(3) taking the tenant's side (maybe tenant knows her?)
Questions:
1) Can I get the tenants to pay rent until the new tenant moves in or until end of their contract? (remember the old tenant's lease doesnt expire until 25th May). Now the PM is telling me I can't, because the old tenant returned keys on 11th (evengthough the PM didn't realize that "all" keys have been returned until the 14th).
2) Can I get compensation from the old tenant if the new tenant chase me for compensation for their failed furniture transfer on the 13th?
3) Can I get compensation from this PM? Or should I demand a reduced commission?
4) How do I force the old tenant to surrender all their keys back to me? They obviously made copies!
NIGHTMARE PM! PM AND TENANT FROM HELL!
Can someone tell me what can be done about such a PM. Can I seek compensation?
Story from the beginning. I built a new house on land. Brand new home finished in November 2008. This agent (one very popular franchise name in Victoria) found me a couple who wants to lease for 6 months, as a temporary residence while their new house is being built. The agent assured me these tenants are honest, clean, etc. Ok Sign up.
When they moved in, the inspection report was very meticulous and accurately done. Eg "wall small mark at which corner" etc.
5 months later, around early April, the tenants suddenly gave notice to vacate for 23rd April. I initially already had some disagreement with how this agent handled some of the matters - eg when i wanted to cancel the utility bills so the new tenants can transfer to their name, I was told by this PM that they do that "all part of the service", done by their "transfer agent". BUt all the while I keep receiving Electricity bills, water bills. Only the gas bill is directly sent to the tenant.
So with the notice I got that they are leaving on 23rd April, I arranged for advertisement to get a much higher rent than the PM can. The agent advertised for $250, but got no response. I advertised myself for $290, I got quite a few response, partly because the people looking at my ads were mainly expats, or people planning to move into Victoria and wanting to secure a place first. Ok I got someone who wanted to move in 24 April.
A few days before 23 April, I had this hunch I better call this agent to confirm 100% that their notice letter is still valid. I was told, "oh, the screen shows 6th May now". I made a bit of noise by complaining why I wasn't informed by a simple phone call or email. Ok I let that rest this time. I told our new potential tenants 6th May. I have to give them a discount rent for 4 weeks, to keep them interested.
1 day before 6th May, I called the PM again to make sure. They called the tenants and told me "not moving out 6th May, they want to move out 11 May". This time I was boiling! Why does this tenant keep changing their notice at the last minute? "OH because their builder hasn't completed their new home. Pls understand, these are good tenants who take good care of your house." I made a complaint to the director, and later that day was told the tenant's lease agreement is until 25th May. So they are giving early notice to leave, and they can change their mind anytime they like, as long as they havent returned the keys to PM. So I asked "does this mean they can keep playing this game with me everyday - promising key tomorrow, but not return the keys - until 25th May?" . Answer "Yes, unfortunately, this is how it is. But remember they still have to pay rent until their lease is complete if the property vacant".
So 11th may, I went to the property to do inspection report with PM. I was expecting to get the keys back today, but lots of cleaning stuff not done by tenant! PM made a list of things -
1) garbage all over the backyard needs to be cleaned
2)garbage all over the front yard needs to be removed
3) tenant's stuff in the garage still not removed
4)new oven not cleaned - had stains and grease all inside
She said the others are just wear and tear. But I noticed internal walls had kids' drawings on pen and crayon on some areas. Many parts of the walls had scratch marks, dents, here and there. This was a brand new property 5 months ago, and my 10 year old own home's internal wall is in better condition!!
I made a list of my own for tenant to clean:
1)kitchen benchtop not properly cleaned
2) sink not cleaned
3) external render wall had many chip marks (paint and render fell off as if some one used some tool to hit the wall - about 10 -11 holes). The PM said "oh maybe this is a building defect, the paint may be not good and fell off itself". I noted the other wall in front of garden is in perfect condition. So I insisted the PM to get the tenant to reimburse.
4)my builder complained to me that the tenants had thrown their heaps of rubbish and old stuff at the end of the road at the reserve land grass area.
Why the outgoing report is so casual? Everything is "fine". Filthy kitchen sink - fine. Filthy cabinet surfaces with greasy marks here and there - "fine".
So the agent says the tenant still has keys to the property and will come back to clean up the next day afternoon on 12th May. She assured me I will get the keys on late afternoon 12th May.
Next day, I drove 50km to Melton from the city, waited and waited, PM didn't call me and was out of office. I left message for my keys to be returned so I can let new tenant move in. Late afternoon, PM called me saying "I just called the tenants and she said her child is sick today, she is not cleaning up. But her husband will clean up after work this evening. You will get your keys tomorrow morning. I assure you". So I waited the whole day there for the keys for nothing (again)! I said "why do they keep breaking their notice?? if they are not serious about cleaning, lets get a professional and deduct from their bond". She said "no we can't, we got to give them time". But until WHEN? These tenants have a habit of delaying and breaking their notices at the last minute. PM said "no, they are very good tenants". Ya my a$$. So i was assured by PM -tomorrow I will get the keys and my new tenants can surely move in.
After that I had to call my new tenant and tell her she cant move in this evening (this would be the 3rd time telling her to move in another day).
I made sure I went to the PM office to leave a note of all the things that MUST be cleaned up by tenant. I wanted to see PM, she was in her office but just told her reception she has "no time, busy, not even for a quick word", but she has time to tell the reception what to tell me, and reception pass my message to her, and she tells me "tomorrow morning, PM will be at property 10am". In my opinion, this PM was a bit stuck up, arrogant, has bad communication skills, and helping the tenant mucking me around.
I sent a formal email to their office, CC to the director as well, to tell them to remember WHO they are working for and who pays them - OWNER, not tenant. Stop siding with these tenants who keep mucking me around, wasting my time, screwing up my plans. I had to tell my new tenants for 3rd time - last minute notice- that they cant move in. And i told the PM to inform me about things earlier! Don't always wait till last minute before I am supposed to get the the keys then tell me sorry no keys!
12 May - morning, I drove all the way from city to Melton again. At 9.20am, the reception called me saying the PM went to the property already (so it is obvious this PM doesn't want to see me or talk to me, as she told me meet there 10am yesterday). I arrived at 9.40am. GUESS WHAT?
Property was the same condition as yesterday. The tenants did not come back to clean yesterday as they promised. So they actually broke 2 promises to clean yesterday - one for noon, one for evening.
I had to tell my new tenant again (4th time) that she can't move in today. This time, the new tenant already had her stuff in a truck, ready to move!!!!
I went to the PM's director this time. Since I didn't get a call from the PM at all to update me what was happening. She was avoiding me.This time I went directly to her director at their office. He said "these tenants sent a fax at 9.30pm last night to our office, saying they got better things to do, their child is not feeling well, they are not cleaning up, they are offering $100 bond for you to clean up and get the wall fixed. They returned the keys". That's not enough! To remove those rubbish I got to hire a trailer or get someone to do it, $100 to clean up the whole house, remove rubbish and fix the paint/render??? Director said " Obviously these tenants are trying to smartarse and trying to get away with it because their mum is a real estate manager. We will give them a warning - 48 hours to clean up, or else surrender your whole bond for us to get professional cleaners to pay them".
Plus, he also told me that the tenant's mother is a real estate agent/manager who applied for a job with him before, but he rejected her because doesn't like her working style. So she doesn't like him and he doesn;t like her and them either! Plus, the fax was sent from the mum's real estate office!!
So I said "this could be done delebierately out of spite!!" . He said "nah, i don't think so". (yeah right) So on the 13 May, make it the 3rd time I went to Melton and received no keys!
So the next day, I got a call from the PM saying the tenants have cleaned up this time (within 24 hours! surprise what a little warning can do!). I told her, "this is what i have been telling you, stop listening to the tenant's lame excuses all the time and giving into their every demand. I dont like these tenants one bit!". Now she tells me " I dont like them either". (before this she kept telling me these are GREAT tenants.)
Now that I got the keys back on the 13th May, I assumed they will pay rent until 13. But no, the PM told me VCAT will allow tenants to return keys and give them 10 days grace to clean up the property. (Is this true? Im not sure. If it is, it is a stupid law). When I was renting in Sydney, the Pm there did not give 2nd changes to clean up. Either you clean up by the time the PM comes for conditions report, if not, deduct bond he will get professional himself!
And upon further questioning, the PM said rent is paid up to date. "Upp to what date?" I asked. "Up to 11 May". HOW can that be? Your director was telling me they didn't return the key until 12 May night or 13 May morning! And on the 11th, when we did our inspection, you said the tenant still has keys and will come back next day to clean up?". You know what she said?
"No actually they returned the set of keys on the kitchen bench on 11th May, I picked it up, thinking the tenant was still holding another copy(so she could come back to clean)." Conclusion 1: This PM doesn't even know how many sets of keys the tenants have!! Or when they returned it! She had no bloody idea! She must have been chasing the tenant for the keys and the tenants tell her "i left it there on the 11th!"
I asked further "so without keys, how do they expect to come in to finish up the cleaning?". You know what PM said? "THe tenant left the garage door unlocked on the 10th, so that he has free access to the property to clean up. But he doesn't have keys"
!!!!!! How can they do that? "Well, they did that and nothing happen did it?" OMFG!!!! Melton is one of the highest crime rate area in Victoria, tenant can get in, so can ANYONE!I remembered on the 11th, I noticed the garage door unlocked and I locked it from the inside. And on the 12th, I left a note inside the house for the tenants to see - a list of things that they must clean. And that list was faxed by the tenant's mum back to the PM office on the night of the 12th.
SO HOW DID THE TENANT GET ACCESS TO THE PROPERTY ON THE 12TH TO GET THEIR HANDS ON MY HANDWRITTEN NOTICE TO THEM? I locked the garage on 11th!
Conclusion: THis PM is either
(1)half asleep all the time - doesn;t know what she's doing at all
(2) doesn't care
(3) taking the tenant's side (maybe tenant knows her?)
Questions:
1) Can I get the tenants to pay rent until the new tenant moves in or until end of their contract? (remember the old tenant's lease doesnt expire until 25th May). Now the PM is telling me I can't, because the old tenant returned keys on 11th (evengthough the PM didn't realize that "all" keys have been returned until the 14th).
2) Can I get compensation from the old tenant if the new tenant chase me for compensation for their failed furniture transfer on the 13th?
3) Can I get compensation from this PM? Or should I demand a reduced commission?
4) How do I force the old tenant to surrender all their keys back to me? They obviously made copies!
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