HELP - PM and tenant from HELL!

personally i think a large part of the fury is that rodimus jumped the gun to find their own tenant and made all sorts of promises that they were not in a position of fullfill - and then was left looking stupid when having to keep putting off the new tenant from moving in.

the old tenant had a lease up to XX date - they had a right to that property until XX date.
 
Collector and Ozperp - My thoughts too.

A PM who has lost the motivation to serve you. Nothing in it for her to serve you anymore. All brought about by your actions.
 
Nothing like good ol' SS to put things back into perspective. :)

But only if you are receptive.

All good advice from Ozprep and Collector with this saga just a repeat and continuation of previous threads which I had threaded together for those who were interested.

Cheers
 
Ozperp, Collector,

1)So you guys think that the agent not having any idea when the tenant returned the keys - that is normal practise????

2)And also letting the tenant leave the keys on the kitchen bench and leave the garage door unlocked for 2 days 2 nights, that is OK?

3) And the PM totally forgetting about the lease that is expiring 25th May and thinks that the tenant has paid up the full rent up to 11th??

This is all the normal practise of a "GOOD" PM in YOUR OPINION???

Geez, the attitude of some people in this forum.
You guys have this habit of taking the side of an agent who doesn't do their job at all.

Late last week, I had to call the PM's director to tell him the rent must be paid up till when my new tenant moves in. Only then did they take action. Before that, they actually called me saying they are ready to release the bond as the tenant has paid up till the 11th when they returned their key (eventhough the PM didn't notice the keys were fully returned until the 14th). I had to tell them the right thing to do!

So who is doing the agent's job? Me! Why am I paying them then???
 
But only if you are receptive.

All good advice from Ozprep and Collector with this saga just a repeat and continuation of previous threads which I had threaded together for those who were interested.

Cheers

Handyandy,

you're just saying that because you are still holding a grudge against me aren't you? Don't be so petty mate, I already apologized to you before in the open and via PM. Don't need to use this as an opportunity to get back at me. I doubt you can honestly say what my agent did and overlooked in this instance is fully acceptable and does not pass the line of "Negligence".
 
personally i think a large part of the fury is that rodimus jumped the gun to find their own tenant and made all sorts of promises that they were not in a position of fullfill - and then was left looking stupid when having to keep putting off the new tenant from moving in.

the old tenant had a lease up to XX date - they had a right to that property until XX date.

The reason they returned the keys on 11th is because they thought they can get away with it not cleaning up. My PM;s director confirmed that these tenants were trying to play games, thinking if we force them to come back to clean up, they wouldn't be charged rent. As stated in their fax to the PM, they mentioned that they returned the keys, and they have fully paid the rent they are responsible for up till the 11th.

Also, if they had not keep promising they will vacate and clean up by XYZ date, why in the world would I arrange for my new tenants to come in earlier? My new tenants needed the place ASAP.
 
Ozperp, Collector,

1)So you guys think that the agent not having any idea when the tenant returned the keys - that is normal practise????

Collector said:
The PM did not care - knew they were losing the management as the LL had sourced own tenants, PM took the easy way out did not want to fight with the tenant so said everything was wear and tear, did not care about tenant staying a couple of extra days, did not care about the property not being secure, did not care about the LL all simply because the PM new he/she was losing the property and wanted to take the easiest way out
.

2)And also letting the tenant leave the keys on the kitchen bench and leave the garage door unlocked for 2 days 2 nights, that is OK?

Collector said:
The PM did not care - knew they were losing the management as the LL had sourced own tenants, PM took the easy way out did not want to fight with the tenant so said everything was wear and tear, did not care about tenant staying a couple of extra days, did not care about the property not being secure, did not care about the LL all simply because the PM new he/she was losing the property and wanted to take the easiest way out
.

3) And the PM totally forgetting about the lease that is expiring 25th May and thinks that the tenant has paid up the full rent up to 11th??

Collector said:
The PM did not care - knew they were losing the management as the LL had sourced own tenants, PM took the easy way out did not want to fight with the tenant so said everything was wear and tear, did not care about tenant staying a couple of extra days, did not care about the property not being secure, did not care about the LL all simply because the PM new he/she was losing the property and wanted to take the easiest way out
.

This is all the normal practise of a "GOOD" PM in YOUR OPINION???

Collector said:
The PM did not care - knew they were losing the management as the LL had sourced own tenants, PM took the easy way out did not want to fight with the tenant so said everything was wear and tear, did not care about tenant staying a couple of extra days, did not care about the property not being secure, did not care about the LL all simply because the PM new he/she was losing the property and wanted to take the easiest way out
.

Geez, the attitude of some people in this forum.
You guys have this habit of taking the side of an agent who doesn't do their job at all.

Don't take sides, just read what is written and then come to conclusions

Late last week, I had to call the PM's director to tell him the rent must be paid up till when my new tenant moves in. Only then did they take action. Before that, they actually called me saying they are ready to release the bond as the tenant has paid up till the 11th when they returned their key (eventhough the PM didn't notice the keys were fully returned until the 14th). I had to tell them the right thing to do!

So who is doing the agent's job? Me!

Yes, you because
Collector said:
The PM does not care - knew they were losing the management as the LL had sourced own tenants, PM took the easy way out did not want to fight with the tenant so said everything was wear and tear, did not care about tenant staying a couple of extra days, did not care about the property not being secure, did not care about the LL all simply because the PM new he/she was losing the property and wanted to take the easiest way out
.




Why am I paying them then???only you can answer that question - that's why I said
You do need to change PM's, or even self manage - I think you should try to self manage - that way you will learn all the ins and outs, you will come to look at the whole property investment/management situation, you will become wiser and have a greater understanding how the system works.


No need to get personal about all this, you need to look at the bigger picture, things could be worse - read some of the other threads on SS and then consider yourself lucky.... as I also said before I wish you luck and know that this will all blow over, find a new PM or self manage (which you seem to be doing already), don't stress about the little things (and all things that you have mentioned are little).

Print this thread out and re-read it in a year or two, I'm sure your perspective would have changed.
 
rods

oh my gawd! this agent is ridiculous & needs to be fired!
for you to tell them what they should do - that they are forgettin about the rent due and the keys and leaving the property door unlocked for a few days seems like very negligent on the tenant and agent's part of duty of care -you are doing all their job for them and paying them! if you are paying them, then they should give an acceptable level of good service to you.

my question is, if in the case of the tenant leaving the door unlocked and left the keys on the kitchen top, if thieves come in and steal the oven or some stuff that the tenant left behind in the property, will insurance still cover?

also if the agent signs up these tenants and recommended them to you, then it is also a poor choice on their part. you probably have never met these renters yourself and the agent selected them right? the agent should have done the due diligence on your behalf.

no way will i ever let my agent drop to this level of service.
you'd better tell them in writing to delay returning the bond until all rent is paid up until your new renters move in.

once they return the bond, it will be almost impossible to chase the rest of the rent owing. if they returned the bond without getting the rent, you could shoot a legal letter to the agent and chase them for the rent owed to you.

in this case, i believe rodimas did the right thing. it was crucial that he intervened with the slacking agent. if he had not, the tenant would have just got away with not paying the rent owing and the bond returned to them in full. the slack agent needs to be fired. i believe the fault is more on your agent than your tenant. tenants can say they don't know the tenancy laws. the agent should know and be managing the whole thing, to ensure the tenant does not mess around like that. also, for your agent to tell you that the rent is fully paid up, shows that she/he may not even be aware of the lease expiry date.
 
Collector and Ozperp - My thoughts too.

A PM who has lost the motivation to serve you. Nothing in it for her to serve you anymore. All brought about by your actions.

if the agent still takes the fees, they should still give service? if there is "nothing in it for her to serve", then don't take the fees and they should tell the owner to self manage or change agent. to take fees and not provide is negligence.

never underestimate what consultants and agents will try to provide less than what is acceptable level of service, and still charge the same fee.

this is what happens when we engage outsider consultants and agents. they want to be paid, but they try to get away with slow work and doing less. unlike your regular employee who has only 1 boss, these agents are usually not afraid of losing you as a boss/customer, since they serve many masters. if you fire them, they still have hundreds of other customers. that is why they always have that couldn't care less outlook.

that is why when we finally found our ideal consultant/contractor/agent, we stop looking. we will stick to this perfect agent who gives good service no matter what. its like finding our ideal lover.
 
Handyandy,

you're just saying that because you are still holding a grudge against me aren't you? Don't be so petty mate, I already apologized to you before in the open and via PM. Don't need to use this as an opportunity to get back at me. I doubt you can honestly say what my agent did and overlooked in this instance is fully acceptable and does not pass the line of "Negligence".

Mate

this has nothing to do with your paranoia - everybody is out to get you and only you.:eek::D

Most people on this forum have had the same experiences and have learned to deal with them these problems in a business like manner.

What Collector and other (including myself) are saying is that you need to learn to modify your reactions so that you can deal with these type of problem in the most efficient and simplest way - causing you the least aggravation.

As per my previous post - If you don't then it really puts a massive cap on your capacity to grow your investment portfolio as each problem will cost way to much time and in combination will suck you dry and spit you out.

Its your choice as to whether you let this all defeat you (and by continuing to deal with these problems in the way you are it will defeat you) or you rise above it make the decisions that need to be made and act on those decisions and MOVE ON.

Cheers
 
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my pm got sick to death of me in the end. I am sure she received ym termination letter 1 inute before she was about to send mine. She annoyed me for not doing things, then doing 1/2 a job, so I hounded her... REading back on a couple of emials, I have to dmit I overreacted.. but in my defense, it was after... irrelevant, I ended up annoying her that much, she was not happy dealing with me.

I did end up self managing. I read a bit, spoke to a couple of others, met the tenants once and thought go for it, I can always go to a pm again if need be.

It's been good. Been out twice to look at the aircon and drop off an exhaust fan for the bathroom (see, outgoing inspection was not done that well by pm who got that annoyed with me). Had one rent payment missed. Sent a letter. got a ph call 48 hours later, apologisig, they missed it, is it ok to pay double this week.

Just signed them up on a new lease. Only 6 mths as they're hoping to either buy, or get something bigger which they didn't find this time.

I got annoyed about the exhaust fan, then the electrician tenant offered to install a new one as he is an electrician and it won't take long

Got worried about the air con not working ph call Friday night, who do I call ? Then I saw the neighbour who worked previously as an aircon repairman, let's go look at it Saturday - needed new motor. Purchased on Monday.. Installed Wednesday..

Had to thnk abou thow to approach th elease. So I did it same as I did when contacting the tenants to pay me th ernt not th pm & call me for anything. I decided short polite buisenss like letter. Sent one saying as you know lease is about to expire...happy to offer you 6 or 12 mth lease.. beginning this date, at a rent of $35 more... Got a ph call 48 rs later, suggesting


So it helped me think about what to do, how early / late to leave things etc etc. I know a little bit now, not to panic over this, but to keep an eye on that etc...
 
To save on further stress I would be asking the principle (not the PM) to re-imburse you a weeks rent (going halves) as a goodwill gesture. Ensure you have all dates and times in writing along with the request. All this done politely)

If you don't get a satisfactory result ask the principle how they woulkd feel about some free advertising on Today Tonight. For the sake of $250 why wouldn't they cough it up due to the circumstances. Hell, I almost feel like coughing it up :).


I said ALMOST, throw in an injured dog or something you may almost have me :D
 
My attitude to PM's is that i manage them. Some are better than others, but at the end of the day - i just want to have someone between me and the tenant. All I need is someone I can work with.

The bigger picture to me is that the property grows in value and I have the occassional hiccup. A months lost rent here and there, a few repairs and a bit more wear and tear on the property.

A unit in Sth Frankston has tripled from $90k to approx $270k in 10 years of ownership. In that time, I've lost a few months rent, replaced the carpets and hot water service.

Look at the bigger picture mate.
 
Handyandy,

I don't even have the right to rant about a slacking PM in this forum? What, you are the Reaction Nazi now? You think no matter what happens, let the PM do whatever they do, let the tenant do whatever they do, all you can do is sit here and put a happy face sticker over your face and don't care. Sure, if that is your choice. let your IP fall apart, you lose rental income, you pay for this and that damage, you're rich, go for it.

Look, I was never impolite to her. When I went to talk to her director, I was polite and diplomatic.
When I talk to her during the inspection, I treated her with respect and acted as if there was no disputes in the past and that it's all forgiven. Yesterdya and today, when I talk to her on the phone, still i was polite and generous with my "good", "thanks", "how are you". I only get frustrated when she tells me bullsh$it like "no the rent is paid up until 11th May, it is complete. You can't ask them to pay more since they returned the keys!" (she was acting like I was pushing for more than what I was entitled to), which then, I sent and email to her and her director asking, "do i not have the rights to ask the tenants to pay until my new tenant comes in, since their lease hasn't expired?" See, this kind of thing, a good PM doesn't need the Owner to remind them. They were clearly half asleep on the job, and also they didn't even know it when the tenant returned all the keys.

If you read back to the ordeal I went thru and how many times the tenants broke their notice they gave to me at the last minute (may I count about 5 times?), I think I have the right to be a bit cranky about them mucking me around. Even the PM's director when told about the whole story, he told me these tenants are "bullsh|t smartarses playing games". If he himself admitted these are bad tenants, am I wrong to think the same? And also the agent having no idea to what's going on, nor protecting my rights as an Owner, I think i have the right to complain.

May I add, the PM director himself told me if he was aware that his office was going to select these people as tenants, he would never have agreed because he doesn't like them.

If i had not stepped in, the pm would have passed the whole inspection and just ask them to remove the garbage. But because I stepped in, I got reimbursed for the damaged wall, got the old tenants to clean up the kitchen benchtop, sink, toilet, internal walls properly, return the missing kitchen drainer. If I didn't ask them to, I may have to do it all myself out of pocket and my own time, OR, let the new tenant move in in this bad condition, and make the next condition report look even worse because they moved into an untidy/damaged house. If your new tenant moves into lousy conditions, the chances are they will leave it in an even worse condition.
 
My attitude to PM's is that i manage them. Some are better than others, but at the end of the day - i just want to have someone between me and the tenant. All I need is someone I can work with.

The bigger picture to me is that the property grows in value and I have the occassional hiccup. A months lost rent here and there, a few repairs and a bit more wear and tear on the property.

A unit in Sth Frankston has tripled from $90k to approx $270k in 10 years of ownership. In that time, I've lost a few months rent, replaced the carpets and hot water service.

Look at the bigger picture mate.

If you don't mind spending your money on things that you could have avoided.

Look - by complaining to the pm, i got a lot of things done, rents owing collected, damages reimbursed - compared to if I didn't make a noise and just pretend "everything is fine, let the pm do whatever, look at the big picture", then I would be how many hundreds of dollars out of pocket?

Cashflow is a big picture too mate.

I manage my PM, but I do not lazily blindfold myself and let them do whatever they want, and let them slack off as they wish. I complain to them when clearly I have the right to as they are not doing their job. That is management.
 
rodimus, I can't believe that I'm trying again, but I am an eternal optimist (and persistent). :)

I don't think that anybody is saying that these things were acceptable, or that your PM was doing a good job. You have a right to be "a bit peeved" about how this was handled. But what I am saying is that your lengthy rants and hysterical emotive language suggest that you're way beyond "a bit peeved"; you seem to be in dire need of some perspective, and possibly anger/stress management. :eek:

It's not what you're posting that we're reacting to, but the tone in which you present it.

I predict that you're going to respond and want to talk about the PM or tenant's actions again, pointing out about how wrong they are. Please try and resist the urge for a few minutes, at least. If you can resist the compulsion to be defensive, I think you'll realise that this is a golden opportunity for you to take stock and improve your life. You need to take control of your emotions and have them working for you, rather than against you.

Everybody has flaws - and actually over-reacting used to be one of mine, so I'm not unsympathetic - but it's what you do when you become aware of your flaws that differentiates between life's winners and losers, and between happiness and misery.
 
rodimus, I can't believe that I'm trying again, but I am an eternal optimist (and persistent). :)

Nice work Tracey! A lot of good advice in there.

My focus would be on how I could develop a system which didn't just allow me to own 2 or 3 properties but instead could allow me to own 20 / 40 / 60 / 80 properties and still allow me my own time . If my system didn't let me do that I would give up this game - way too much hassle to micro-manage on this basis otherwise (for me).

We have had poor service from PMs. The best way out for us was to cut the losses ASAP and move on to someone who is good. Going back over every dollar would have cost more time than it was worth. My time is valuable and I don't want to spend it mucking about with PMs or tenants so I am prepared to lose a little on the edges to preserve my sanity and keep my focus on the next deal...

But that's just me!
 
rodimus, I can't believe that I'm trying again, but I am an eternal optimist (and persistent). :)

that you are my girl!! :D

but spot on. if you reacted to the pm in the manner in which you reacted on the forum - not that i am saying you did as sometimes i too vent on the forum in a manner that i would never do to the party involved - then i am not surprised you didn't get good service.

sometimes the best thing one can do is grit the teeth, remain professionally polite and cheerful and work the situation thru to a mutually satisfactory conclusion. and then come home and rip some weeds out!

all the people we deal with in everyday life are human too. sometimes they make mistakes (as we do), sometimes their judgement is erred (as ours can be) and sometimes they are just having a bugger of a day and you can cop the short end because the dog is sick, the husband lost his job, the kids braces bill arrived and the fridge blew up (as can happen to all of us).

i don't know you reaction to the pm, and agree that the lines of communication were faulty (possibly caused by both sides), and agree that pm's need to be managed, and that sometimes stuff happens despite the best intentions, and that tenants can be real mongrels at times ... but keep smiling, bite the tongue, put out your good side and watch how the attitudes towards you from pm's, tradies, real estate agents, council employees etc etc change.
 
that you are my girl!! :D

but spot on. if you reacted to the pm in the manner in which you reacted on the forum - not that i am saying you did as sometimes i too vent on the forum in a manner that i would never do to the party involved - then i am not surprised you didn't get good service.

sometimes the best thing one can do is grit the teeth, remain professionally polite and cheerful and work the situation thru to a mutually satisfactory conclusion. and then come home and rip some weeds out!

.

If you read my posts, I was POLITE TO HER and her director.

I think you guys are just annoyed because I use a lot of exclamation marks!
My exclamation marks are used to mark shocking unbelievable acts of mismanagement of the agent and stuff the tenants do to me. I believe there was enough grounds to do so in my case!

It would be wise for you to know, my exclamation marks and tone are not directed towards you, so no need to get personal and start having a go at me.

Fact: I was polite to the PM even after so many screw ups.

I;ve had enough of some people in this forum who tells me I'm meddling into the PM's work and that I should just sit back and relax as if nothing happened. I was getting stressed out, yes, I was, but it was because I was trying to get the PM to do the right thing but the PM wouldn't listen!
 
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