HELP - Tenant taking me to tribunal (Perth)

[btc]

Hi,

I have had bad experience with poor PM, hence self manage IP. Got a tenant, and all was well, until she vacated, and we found a room heavily marked/scratched, carpets badly stained, and oil stain in garage, so we have requested to keep some of the bond for repair. But she has refused as she reckons the property was left in a reasonable state. I understand there would b some general wear and tear to the property, but I genuinely think the damage is much more than general wear and tear. I had try to be in contact and negotiate the matter, but she never answer/return calls, until 3 months later she called and said to meet in court.

I have never been to a tribunal, so my questions/concerns are:
1. what is the tribunal procedure? and does it get resolved in one day or ongoing process?
2. if i loose the case, would i have to conpensate for the tenant's time loss from work?
3. Am i in a reasoable position to get some compensation for the carpet and garage stain repair? as we all know the Oz law protects the tenant (even the tenant was telling [threatening] me that).
4. how should i prepare myself before attending the court?

Thank you in advance,
BTC

 

[toony]

Do you have before and after photos of the damage to carpets and garage?

If not, I would just return the bond and save a trip to the tribunal. The tribunal is more likely to support the tenant in this case.

 

[wylie]

Like toony has said.... a picture is worth a thousand words. My parents had long term tenants leave a house in a dirty mess. I took photos and we went about renovating and making the house ready for the new tenants. We got in cleaners, but firstly, we lodged the paperwork with the RTA for an amount of bond to cover the professional cleaners we got in, plus ruined curtains etc. Because we got in the application for some of the bond FIRST, the tenants had to fight to prove their case.

They took my parents to the tribunal. It was all over within half an hour. The photos clinched the deal, and the tenants got back $12 after the cleaning costs, new hose (they took the old one), ruined curtains etc came off the bond.

As far as I know, you will not be asked to reimburse for their time.

My tips would be -

1. Keep calm
2. Have a basic dot point list of the problems. The judge will probably ask you for it, but he may ask you to read it - so keep it short and sweel
3. Be polite to the "judge" or whomever is dealing with the case
4. Don't get involved in "he said" or "she said" discussions

I watched the judge's face closely, and once he saw the photos, the tenants didn't have a chance. They were rude, stalked out of the room after the judgement and I think he thought that we (mum, dad & I) were a breath of fresh air after some of the people he must deal with day in and day out.

If you lose, take it on the chin, and mark it up to experience.

Photos are the most important thing, along with a detailed entry condition and exit condition report (if the tenants have done one).

In all the years we have managed (my parents and me) they have only ever had two cases go to tribunal, and won both. So it is not a lost cause. There are fair people in the system. Hope you get one.

 

[Rixter]

BTC, I concur with Toony.....put it down to experience and move on.

This is why I employ a good PM and have landlord insurance.

The PM takes care of everything and know all the legal processes involved in such incidents.

You dont truly appreciate their worth until things like this come along...and hopefully if you have a good PM things dont get to this stage.

A lot of people dont realise the true worth of a good PM. They do more than just collect rent -you pay for their expertise on what could happen, and not what happens the majority of the time.

So PM for total management & landlord insurance for monetary expense cover.

Hope this helps..and good luck!

 

[btc]

cheers for your advise.

i did take some pictures, but the photo doesnt show the carpet as dirty as it really looked, due to bad photo shot/camera. however, i do have a inspection report that she signed off when we did the exit inspection together, which states the damages i described. Would i still have any chance in this case??

 

[want2bewealthy]

I suggest employing a good PM, You should'nt see these troubles anymore.

 

[Rixter]

cheers for your advise.

i did take some pictures, but the photo doesnt show the carpet as dirty as it really looked, due to bad photo shot/camera. however, i do have a inspection report that she signed off when we did the exit inspection together, which states the damages i described. Would i still have any chance in this case??

You have to weigh up your time and effort and costs involved in pursuing her (and even then she could win) , against your cost to bring the condition back to par yourself - only you can decide.

 

[wylie]

Your tenant is taking you to court. It will cost you nothing but some time. In our case, mum and dad are retired and I don't work, so it was a rather exciting way to spend the morning.

Giving up a day's pay would be more of a problem.

If you have the time to spare, you have nothing to lose as far as I can see.

You can digitally enhance the photo to make things clearer. I don't mean being sneaky, but we all know that flash can wash out the photo, so have a fiddle with whatever free photo enhancement package you have on your computer. In our case, I did alter light conditions, and light and shade and contrast to show the marks up. It simply meant that a quick glance told more than the judge having to try to work out what was dusty, or dirty and what was flash reflection.

 

[Bradsdad]

You really need to eigh up the cost of repairs V time spent persuing it. Then weigh that up against what level of moral ground you wish to be perched on.

Personally I feel that 10-15 minutes with a video camera before tenanting is time very well spent.

 

[Chatto]

I'd go to court, the judge will provide a level head to decide what is appropriate. You have a signed copy of the exit report stating damage and some photos. For all you know the tenant could be a serial "I'll take you to court" tenant whom landlords just back down on.
Go for it and learn from the experience.

 

[jackson]

hey,
i work at the court.
wont be able to offer you much, but from my understanding you will have to go for a Pre-trial conference first. Which means going before a Registrar to resolve the matter. (Don't worry, all three registrars are nice) If the matter don't get resolve you will have to go before a Magistrate and hopefully he or she will be able to make a decision then.

From my understanding the tenant cannot ask the magistrate to make an order for you to pay for the tenant's time to attend court etc (well i haven't seen such orders yet)

But what I don't understand is why the tenant said to you to see them in court. I would think you will get a Form 5 & 6 to see if you want to dispute the bond money, unless they have the intention to ask for more than the bond money which will be a form 12 with a court hearing date.

anyway good luck and let us know how you go.

 

[Pecan]

Hi
This website might be helpful;
http://www.magistratescourt.wa.gov.au/content/onlineForms/
it allows you to write up an applicaiton form for court then print it out, tells you which is your local court.
Some points;
1. you are appying for bond release only
2. the amount in dispute is the amount of the bond total, not the amount you want her to pay you
3. you will need INVOICES, the court will only pay on invoices eg if carpets were dirty, did you get them re-cleaned? Also claim the cost of the court application ($26.70)
4. call the court, get them to send you an affidavit form, complete this and take with supporting docs (lease agreement, ingoing property conditon report, photos, outgoing property condition report, rent transaction history, invoices) and take it to a jp. jps work in a voluntary fashoin at courthouses so call your local court to find out their hours. have the jp sign and stamp it all, get them to stamp all the docs as true copies of the originals.
5. send it all in, with $26.70, keep a copy of what you have submitted, do not send originals.
6. court will notify you of date. allow extra time for parking.
7. take a book to read as you will spend a long time in waiting room.

Best wishes.
Definitely go for it, it will only cost you a morning, and it will make that tenant think twice before messing up someone elses property next time.

 

[INVSTOR]

My first tenant took us to court. It was actually quite interesting listening to the other cases. Your case will prob take no longer than 5 mins. The judge will listen to both sides, then rule what amount of bond money goes to who.

 

[The Fence]

I suggest employing a good PM, You should'nt see these troubles anymore.

Unfortunately this is not always the case...our PM became worse and worse with tenant selection and managing to the point where the last tenant (under PM) trashed the house and we spent a week cleaning and repairing things, and the PM still didn't get any compo for us as the tenant had at least 3 alias's and could not find them......Ever since we have self managed without incident and very happy tenants to boot.
I just wish I could have found a good PM but they are as rare as rocking horse doo doo......
Anyway, it's all good now and never look back.

Do things right and you should be right in any tribunal, trust yourself not your PM....

 

[asdf]

Unfortunately this is not always the case....

Where was the IP? In Syd metro? I find the PMs in Syd absolutely useless. But its not their fault, the principals pay peanuts so monkeys turn up for the interviews.

 

[jaycee]

Can you minimise chances of these 'arguments' happening (besides not seleting that tenant, not what I mean...)

What is the first point of contact with the tenant about $ owing from bond / other to bring the propoerty 'back to scratch' ?

Is it by letter advising how much to be witheld or is it verbal ?

 

[The Fence]

Where was the IP? In Syd metro? I find the PMs in Syd absolutely useless. But its not their fault, the principals pay peanuts so monkeys turn up for the interviews.

Wamberal, on the Central Coast NSW.
I have a history with this agent dating back to 1990 when I did repairs for them...then in 1994 I was a tenant with them till 1998, still doing repairs/trade work for them....then we used them on an IP from 2002 till about 15 months ago......still the same PM from day one to the end....just had too much on her plate I reckon and a plethora of assistants coming and going, all very young and inexperienced....still, no excuse IMHO....

We were paying 7%....not peanuts....

 

[lifelonglearner]

Outcome

I know this was a long time ago, but please could you tell me the outcome of the court case?