Henry kaye Articles

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From: Scott Elsom


Has anyone got a copy of the Henry Kaye article from the yesterday's Fin Review? Either a scanned copy or the web version would be.

Regards

Scott
 
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Reply: 1
From: Mike .


Yes, I do, but you'll have to display your e-mail address if you want the two articles e-mailed to you.

Mike
 
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Reply: 1.1
From: Even Steven


Mike
I'd be really grateful if you could email the copies.
Thanks
 
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Reply: 1.2
From: John P


Hi Mike I would be grateful if you could email them to me as well

Many Thanks


John_P
 
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Reply: 1.3
From: Andy Ky


Hi Mike,

can you email me a copy as well.
Thank you

Andy
 
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Reply: 1.3.1
From: Igs Kanny


I'm sorry to bug you. But can you e-mail them to me as well. I can't get the back issue anywhere.
 
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Reply: 1.3.2
From: Mike .


Sorry Andy, I tried twice to e-mail those articles to you but your address is bouncing them back.
 
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Reply: 1.4
From: J D


G'day,

I would appreciate an email too

JD
:)
 
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Reply: 2
From: Scott Elsom


Sorry Mike...

My email address is showing up in my profile, but not showing up when I post

I notice yours isn't showing either!

Thanks

Scott
 
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Reply: 1.5
From: Ayesha Todd


Would love a copy of the article too if you can E-mail it or post it to the forum!!!
 
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Reply: 1.6
From: Geoff Whitfield


Mike,

There's a lot of interest in these articles.

The Fin Review articles are available by subscription only. From the headlines and the first sentence, they seem intriguing.

People would email you privately- but they can't see your email address.

Is there any chance of posting your email address please? There may well be people who would be interested but who would not post on the forum.

You could delete in in a couple of day's time if you want.
 
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Reply: 2.1
From: Bernard Biala


Can the articles be posted here?
 
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Reply: 2.1.1
From: Waverly Bay


Hi

Attached below is one of the articles from the Australian Financial Review. The articles were available online to Premium Subscribers, so public disclosure on somersoft is technically a breach of copy right. I am happy to play the martyr role for the benefit of this forum....given the huge interest in HK's strategies and the frightening financial implications for the unsuspecting !

cheers

Waverly

______

Kaye's buying renown hard to justify on paper
Apr 22
Tina Perinotto

Australian Securities and Investments Commission searches reveal more than 120 companies associated with Henry Kaye. Little is known about him, other than that he is about 32 years old and was born in Byelorussia. He is believed to have come to Australia at the age of nine, and made his first business foray in computers.

Real estate agents say he is a prolific buyer of property, but little appears under his name.

The Age has reported several property purchases in Melbourne by Mr Kaye, but council searches and company records reveal no connection, either with Mr Kaye or his sister Julia Kukuy, who is understood to be involved in the business.

In August 2000 The Age reported that interests associated with Mr Kaye had purchased a 1.2 hectare development site at 33 Inkerman Street, St Kilda, with plans for a 238-apartment block to be known as The Oasis.

Council records, however, reveal the Inkerman Street property is owned by Inkerman Developments Pty Ltd, whose directors do not appear to be associated with Mr Kaye.

Properties reportedly bought by Mr Kaye's Investment Source Corporation included a Cruikshank Street, Port Melbourne, property for $11.875 million. Included in the purchase price was the construction of 27 townhouses. Another deal involved the "bulk purchase" of an apartment complex in St Kilda Road.

Investment Source is now known as the National Investment Institute; in Sydney it is known as the Empower Group.
Pasko Skelin (also known as Plasko) who runs the Empower Group, was struck off the Register of Pharmacists last month for selling more than $200,000 worth of Sudafed, according to Pharmacy Board of NSW records.

According to documents obtained by The Australian Financial Review relating to the determination of the board, Ian William Alexander Dean v Pasko John Skelin: "The conclusion that the Sudafed sold in bulk quantities was used for illegitimate purposes is inescapable."

Mr Skelin had "been engaged in improper and unethical conduct in the practice of pharmacy and he is accordingly guilty of professional misconduct," the board said.

It is understood Mr Skelin has lodged an appeal.
Speaking in defence of Mr Skelin at the Pharmacy Board hearing, Mr Kaye cited his "compassion and spirituality" and commended him for "touching and changing the lives of people for the better, for which they are forever indebted".

Mr Kaye said 26,000 people had undertaken property investment seminars and courses organised by Mr Skelin.
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.1
From: Waverly Bay


Attached is the second article from the AFR...

_____________

Making money the Kaye way
Apr 22
Tina Perinotto

You can be a doctor or a welfare recipient, but when the lights shine on investment promoter Henry Kaye at his seminars you will be offered a fast ride to easy street.

The latest promotions focus on mezzanine property finance. ``Henry will explain how, by using a combination of strategies it is possible to earn up to 105 per cent per annum,'' the advertisements promise.

And Mr Kaye's brochures for his property investment seminars, which can cost up to $20,000, say: ``Get filthy rich. Make investors and banks beg to give you their money.''

But several sources and documents indicate that instead of leaving a trail of riches, Mr Kaye leaves behind a string of questions about his statements and his methods.

Interviews have revealed several people for whom the promises just didn't work out. In interviews with The Australian Financial Review, some sources have labelled his investment techniques "outlandish" and impractical.

Mr Kaye is variously described by those who have encountered him as charismatic, charming and a reasonable guy who wants to help people. From the outside looking in, Mr Kaye's over-riding message seems reasonable. Secure your own future by taking advantage of a rapidly rising property market.

Not so for Ronnie Kagan, a former director and shareholder in several of Mr Kaye's companies, who says he pulled out of the group after a year having lost "hundreds of thousands of dollars". He said his decision to drop out of the business with Mr Kaye was because he felt the operations were "very unprofessional".

Then there's sales consultant Charlie Kessler, who worked for the company from March to November last year but left after he tired of paying a licensing fee of $6,125 a month, the cost of advertising for seminars and expenses for setting up his own company, including an office and telephones.

Under the Kaye approach, his sales staff become independent business people, who pay for a licensing agreement to sell his seminars.


The targets in the latest batch of advertisements are "retirees and superannuation funds as well as ordinary 'mum and dad' investors".

According to Mr Kaye, 70,000 people have attended his seminars and 8,000 have been to intensive courses.
Many say some of the information is technically good. A current Melbourne client, Dale Burnside, a project manager with the Carson Group, said he and his wife had made a success of Mr Kaye's strategies, buying several properties and committing to several more.

But the AFR has spoken to former associates and clients, among them doctors, lawyers and business people, who are angry. Others are simply embarrassed.

At every junction of the Henry Kaye road to wealth is a system of toll gates for clients who are charged small fortunes.

But the appeal has been immense and former sales staff said some people had left good jobs, mortgaged their houses and sold investments to join Mr Kaye.

Tim Scott, a sales consultant who left the company in September last year, said Mr Kaye's promise to his recruits when he joined in early 2001 was earnings of up to $200,000 in commission income a year. In the early days, during 2001, this was indeed possible, Mr Scott said.

Commission was $1,300 on each course that was sold. Another commission of $600 was also payable to a "master agent" as shown in a detailed cash-flow analysis of earnings structure.

But as business dried up after September 11, sales consultant Mr Kessler said competition between consultants and in-house staff intensified. "In the end, there was so much greed, we were selling leads to each other," he said.

Mr Kagan, who said he owned 50 per cent of the Empower Group (which runs the Sydney side of the business), a percentage of the advocacy services (which sourced property investments for clients) the Business Mastermind Alliance and Capital Holdings, said that during his period with the business, there were "about 10,000 people taking business and property seminars".

"We were doing 100 to 200 sales a week. I got involved, saw what I saw and got out very quickly." Mr Kagan said his concerns centred on practices he disagreed with and treatment of staff.

He alleged staff were charged a licensing fee, payable in advance, and would "wait months and months before they got their money" on commissions.

Clients are offered considerable help on buying investment property, everything from sourcing a property through to finance, help with finding tenants and renovations.

The investment strategies are aggressive: "You'll learn how to buy two, three even four $300,000 to $450,000 properties at the same time, and how to finance them even if you have no deposit, and a limited 'credit facility'," say the brochures.

"Buy projects with less than 1 per cent deposit and sell for 900 per cent profit."
"Bankrupt? You can still borrow money," they say.
Clients are sourced first through cheap seminars such as the current crop, at $39 a session. You can even bring two guests, free of charge.

Prices for the courses, which have names such as the Business Mastery, Investment Mastery and Financial Mastery Boot Camp, started at about $5,000 and moved to about $15,000 and $20,000.

"You could spend $40,000 on programs," said Mr Kessler.
Under the heading "Powerful Sell", a sales manual tells staff to offer a rebate of $2,000 if they pay for a Business Mastery course at $14,965 through a finance contract with the ANZ, which has since pulled out of the deal.

If the client does not qualify, Select Capital (a company associated with Mr Kaye) would be available.
According to the Powerful Sell manual: "Say to the client that their application looks strong and that we have some good news for them ... instead of having to pay it off over two years at almost [$]600 per month they can pay it off over five years for just over [$]300 per month."

Graduates of the courses, which have recently been accredited through the Victorian Qualification Authority, can pay $6,000 plus GST for a property consultant to source property investments, according to several former consultants.

Mr Kaye said his group had companies that sourced properties for potential investors. "These companies do not sell property directly to investors," he said.

Former consultant Mr Scott said he left the organisation not just because of his own financial losses, constant change in company names and commission structures, but because many clients were unhappy.

"They were still paying out the money for the course but had no tangible results. I got so sick of people crying on the phone, literally," he said. Some were "people with purple rinses in their hair. They'd never done anything of the kind before."

Another source who preferred not to be named said: "He frightens people, tells them they'll die poor, and that he wants to help them."

Mr Kaye said: "We appreciate that some people may decide the process is not for them, so National Investment Institute has a full money-back guarantee. A small percentage of our customers seek and receive a full refund."

But another former client said that by the money-back deadline of the third day of the intensive courses it was impossible to know if the strategies would work in practice.

"Our courses emphasise caution when investing in property," said Mr Kaye. "The courses describe the risks and advise strongly against multiple purchasing unless the investor has a detailed knowledge and history of successful investment."

Mr Kaye said this strategy was described as risky and dangerous for people early in their investment careers and people were advised to get the "best possible legal and valuation advice". He added: "Notwithstanding the risks, there are substantial profits to be made in property if people are properly educated and follow the rules."

He estimates only 5 or 6 per cent of people attending the advanced courses seek his group's help to source property: "Most go their own way." He said the sourcing fee was fully refundable if a property was not found this way.

Mr Kaye said it was possible that a "small number" of people who had been to the seminars may have lost money. "But this is almost certainly because they didn't follow the rules or they ignored our advice not to expect an instant return," he said.

Mr Kaye retains a curious loyalty from his former clients and staff.
Mr Scott explained it this way: "It's very psychological: people feel guilty if they say a bad thing about Henry.
"They feel that he has given them all this good information, and they feel really bad that they've failed. But the information is outlandish."
 
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Reply: 2.1.2
From: Mike .


Hi All,

I didn't want to post the articles on the forum as it is a breach of copyright. However, I see someone else has thrown caution to the wind and done just that. I wouldn't be surprised to see it eventually removed.

At last count, I've sent 11 copies out including those in this thread. Since there are now quite a few who have copies, if anyone else is interested in receiving copies please e-mail your request to any other person in this thread except Andy whose address is bouncing.

For those who are interested in obtaining future Australian Financial Review articles, you don't need to subscribe to the newspaper (called the Premium Service) to access articles. You do, however, need to register a Username and Password to the f2 network (Fairfax publications) and then you will have access to the articles Archive. Some articles will require purchasing at one token per article where one token = $1. Tokens are purchased online via your credit card.

Here are the extracts of the two articles:

Making money the Kaye way
<p>
You can be a doctor or a welfare recipient, but when the lights shine on investment promoter Henry Kaye at his seminars you will be offered a fast ride to easy street. The latest promotions focus on mezzanine property finance. ``Henry will explain how, by using a combination of strategies it is possible to earn up to 105 per cent per annum," the advertisements promise.
Australian Financial Review 22 Apr 2002 12:00:00 AM (1400 words) Cost - 1.00 token(s)
<p>
<p>
Kaye's buying renown hard to justify on paper
<p>
Australian Securities and Investments Commission searches reveal more than 120 companies associated with Henry Kaye. Little is known about him, other than that he is about 32 years old and was born in Byelorussia. He is believed to have come to Australia at the age of nine, and made his first business foray in computers. Investment Source is now known as the National Investment Institute; in Sydney it is known as the Empower Group. Pasko Skelin (also known as Plasko) who runs the Empower Group, was struck
Australian Financial Review 22 Apr 2002 12:00:00 AM (419 words) Cost - 1.00 token(s)
<p>
Regards, Mike
 
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Reply: 2.1.2.1
From: Tibor Bode


Hi there,

I attended one of the early (under $1000 seminars 2 years ago) and while I thought that Henry was brilliant speaker and an excellent mind, their pushover sales tactics put me off. Since then I attended some of his "free" seminars and while his ideas are very interesting, it is extremely high risk, requires a huge amount of work on your behalf and I personally believe for the vast majority of the people is not suitable and some of his students actually started to stuff up the entire deposit bond (which can be an excellent tool) for bona fide investors.

Regarding to the copyright issue while in principle I support it, I personally think that the freedom of information which can help people to avoid very costly mistakes, ruin their lives as just as important. Here no one tries to make a profit of sharing this information, but tries share it with other people which could help to avoid very costly mistakes.

I am not a legal person and have no idea about the validity of this argument, but until the government does not provide for everyone this information freely, somehow morally I feel it is right to "re-produce it"

Just my 2c.

Tibor
 
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Reply: 2.1.2.1.1
From: Splinter Wood


Send these articles to ALL your friends and ask them to send to all their friends.

The message is quite clear what these people are about and what they do.

Unfortunately there is always a fresh 'crop' of unsuspecting punters willing to go along to a 'Free' Seminar, and then get pressured into signing up $16,000 for one of these courses. It all seems so right on the night, but a terrible price to pay when you wake up a few weeks later and realized you handed over a lot of money for.....What ?

CAVEAT EMPTOR Folks !! (Some people have very short memories)

SW
 
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