"Henry Kaye- OTP, 100% Finance, Extended Settlement"

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From: Matthew Campbell


Assuming I am allowed to mention other people here:

I would LOVE to know people's thoughts on

Henry Kaye vs Peter Spann.

In my humble opinion, they seem to be the 2 most specific yet different property educators available in Australia today

Their practices and teachings differ somewhat dramatically from what I can see.

The main similarities seem that they both preach near 100% finance..but what about solicitors fees, conveyancing, stamp duty etc?

I understand Henry's concept on depositing on HUGE GROWTH properties and then borrowing 90% near settlement on the CURRENT value VS the purchased price..

I haven't yet spent more than the 4hour course with either of them..

The full course with Henry Kaye is about $13000
Peter Spann's is more like $1500

My fear is not in spending money on my education, it is not "Is it worth $13000?" because one lesson can easily save or make you $13000

The fear is that I lose my capital and therefor purchasing ability disabling me to put the education into action

Any feedback is hugely appreciated especially form those who have attended either or both of these men's FULL COURSES.

Thanks in Advance

Youthful

PS: I hope posting about other teachers doesn't offend anyone
 
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Reply: 1
From: The Wife


I dont think you will offend anybody here, ( except Dave,watch what you say to Dave! :eek:))this is a fantastic forum to discuss such things,

I agree with your question, although it has been asked before, there never seems to be a straight reply, some people have said that, people who do the full courses have to sign a contract which means they cant discuss the course content with anyone? I dont know if this is correct or not.

I dont know if Henry Kaye and Peter Spann are Australia's most prolific speakers about such topic, or Australia's most profitable speakers, either way, good luck to them!

But I to would be keen to hear objective reports, I have seen some people post about their experiences of these courses, but I dont know how comfortable I am with accepting their views, as they sound almost fanatical in their posts, makes me wonder if that is the way the presentation took place, is it evangelistic presenting?

If so, I can at least understand some of the hysteria, and then able to learn around that ( Im not an hysteria type person :eek:)but I can live with it), if thats what it takes).

It will be interesting to see the results of my mini survey, it may give us a guide? Survey will be complete 8 more days, if I stuff up the mail out of results,( I can drive this machine but I have NO idea what goes on under the hood), I will post the results here all bar the email addresses.

Cheers, TW
~Life is a daring adventure, or nothing at all~
 
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Reply: 2
From: Nigel Kibel


Matthew,

In our courses at The Investment Institute, we teach every aspect that others teach, plus a lot, lot more. If you are concerned about losing your capital through their high leverage strategies, then I strongly suggest that you consider alternative strategies taught at our courses. You can learn how this can never happen if you choose the correct strategy.

You will also learn how to acquire properties for virtually no money, and no need for bank finance at all. Just one of the strategies that you will learn is Lease Options, which is a fantastic strategy allowing you to earn up to 10,000% return on your money invested (usually between $100 - $2,000) with absolutely no risk at all, and no bank finance. This is just one of the strategies you will learn.

We just finished a weekend course on Sunday, and by the next day at lunchtime, one of our graduates had negotiated and done his first Lease Option deal. His total financial outlay to control this property - $ 1,000. His projected gain over the next 2 years - $40,000. This is an excellent return on investment.

You wont learn about strategies like this from most others, because when you know strategies such as this, you will be too clever to also buy a property from them.

If you seriously want to maximise your returns through property investment, you will always remember three letters – ROI. This stands for return on investment, and is the return you receive on the amount of money you actually have invested. If you can spread your limited resources over a number of investments, each achieving outstanding returns, you have a far greater chance of creating wealth more safely, and a lot, lot quicker.

If you would like more information, please visit www.theinvestmentinstitute.com.au.

Nigel Kibel
The Investment
 
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Reply: 2.1
From: The Wife


God you sound like SUCH a salesman Nigel.

Hey everyone, this also applies to the Investment institute, good and bad stuff, some objective thoughts on what you think of their full courses, if your to shy to post it here, by all means, email it to me, and I can relate it back to the forum.

Cheers, TW
~No Fear~
 
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Reply: 2.1.1
From: Nigel Kibel


TW,

Yes I am - unashamedly.

You see, we don't disguise education as a marketing tool to then sell property, boot camps and so on.

We offer quality education, and teach a whole range of investment strategies, with the aim of having our students choose whichever strategy/ies is/are right for them in their particular circumstances.

And we do so far, far cheaper than many alternatives, and by bringing this to peoples attention, we are providing a valuable service. We make money from providing our courses, and we make no bones about that.

So yes, I do sound like a salesmen, and I do so because of my passion and commitment to quality investment education - there I go again!!

Another thing about your survey. It will be very easy for this survey to be spammed and influenced. Supporters of HK for example, could bombard you with nothing but positive comments, and likewise, competitors of HK for example could bombard you with nothing but negative comments.

Have you thought about how you could stop this happening, or how are you going to ensure fairminded accuracy when you publish the results?

I think the survey is a fantastic idea, but I think you just need to be a little careful about potential spamming. Just a thought.

Keep on cajoling me. I love it!!

Nigel Kibel
The Investment Institute
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.1
From: The Wife


Oh Bloody Hell...I prompted another sprouting by Nigel, I swear , you should be paying me commissions for all the opportunities I'm giving you to spamitt Nigel, talk to your boss about it will ya, I'm into multiple streams of passive income.

Thankyou for your concern regarding the hyped up entries from over zealous people, I guess its all something we will have to decide for ourselves, am not going to alter it even if I think that there has been some unfair entries.

Hey...what about if we get some over zealous investment institute entries?....do you have any spammers on your books apart from you Nigel?:eek:)

By the way, the more people say things like "supporters of Henry Kaye" the more he sounds like an enema, ...i mean, ....enigma!, oh my...:eek:)...no seriously, you have to give HK credit where its due, he must have one hell of a program, if the people are flocking to it, ...AND....he has one hell of a marketing team, I want to know who they are, I would love to use them on some of my business, its brilliant, anybody know who they are?

TW*


>TW,
>
>Yes I am - unashamedly.
>
>You see, we don't disguise
>education as a marketing tool
>to then sell property, boot
>camps and so on.
>
>We offer quality education,
>and teach a whole range of
>investment strategies, with
>the aim of having our students
>choose whichever strategy/ies
>is/are right for them in their
>particular circumstances.
>
>And we do so far, far cheaper
>than many alternatives, and by
>bringing this to peoples
>attention, we are providing a
>valuable service. We make
>money from providing our
>courses, and we make no bones
>about that.
>
>So yes, I do sound like a
>salesmen, and I do so because
>of my passion and commitment
>to quality investment
>education - there I go again!!
>
>Another thing about your
>survey. It will be very easy
>for this survey to be spammed
>and influenced. Supporters of
>HK for example, could bombard
>you with nothing but positive
>comments, and likewise,
>competitors of HK for example
>could bombard you with nothing
>but negative comments.
>
>Have you thought about how you
>could stop this happening, or
>how are you going to ensure
>fairminded accuracy when you
>publish the results?
>
>I think the survey is a
>fantastic idea, but I think
>you just need to be a little
>careful about potential
>spamming. Just a thought.
>
>Keep on cajoling me. I love
>it!!
>
>Nigel Kibel
>The Investment Institute



~Life is a daring adventure, or nothing at all~
 
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Reply: 2.1.1.1.1
From: Melanie Lindsay


Nigel,

I just visited your website and I'm afraid it's pretty unimpressive. If you're promising 10,000% returns on investments, then I think you should invest a little of your own and create a website free of spelling and grammatical errors.
 
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"Henry Kaye- OTP, 100%25 Finance, Extended Settlement"

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1
From: Sam Coster


Hi Melanie
I love your Tact, subtlety and diplomacy, but
on the other hand HK could have put you up to.


Samc
Enjoy the journey, its half the fun.
 
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"Henry Kaye- OTP, 100%25 Finance, Extended Settleme"

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Ray .


Melanie,
I also visited the Investment Institute website
and was unable to find your spelling and
grammatical errors. How was HK ?
 
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"Henry Kaye- OTP, 100%25 Finance, Extended Settleme"

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Anonymous


Hi All

I've tried to keep the following information as general as possible to ensure HK Intellectual Property.

I have been to HK first two seminars - The seminars are very full on (up to 10-15 hour sessions per day). I haven't been to any other IP seminars to benchmark against HK seminars so I am still a little skeptical. The main seminar is coming up in July Sydney, where I will be attending, of which he offers full money back guarantee if you are dissatisfied with the content...

Some Advantages for me:
1. The thought of venturing into IP is scary and having his program indicate that they will be there for me to assist in my purchase, is comforting.
2. Meeting in work groups for joint decision making and collaborative bargaining and purchasing.
3. He is a motivational speaker, and makes it seem so easy to reach financial freedom
4. He indicates that he offers complete packages where he holds your hand - from start to woe..lifecycle of IP.
5. The promise of short term effort for long term wealth.
6. What if...it did work out?? No regrets.

Disadvantages:
1. He makes no promise of results unless I do all the hard work 24/7 ie: research, due diligence. I don't want to leave my full time job - just yet.
2. He does not focus on the negatives ie: what if I can not get rental on the property - who will pay the monthly repayments?
3. He does not focus on the fact that no money down, still means money down for valuations, legal & financial assistance, research/petrol costs etc
4. He teaches about positive gearing, however I have not seen many properties where the rent covers the monthly mortgage repayments...especially the types of properties he talks about.
5. What if ...it's a scam?

There's still a lot of things on my mind, as this is my first IP. However I don't want to sit on the fence all the time, I've got to do something!

Young and Ambitious.
e-lan
 
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"Henry Kaye- OTP, 100%25 Finance, Extended Settleme"

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Matthew Campbell


Let's see..

Ok, the obstacles I need to overcome.

How does one overcome the banks Affordability ratio of approx 2.5 - 3 times my income??

It's seems obvious to me that I am looking at 2 things

1.Leverage using other peoples money (JV, Banks etc)

2. Creating value in the property so as to maximize Capital Gains whilst still maintaining cashflow and therefor ability to service loans.


It seems to me that most of the properties that Cashflow positive have low or little Capital gains.. and the ability to CREATE or ADD value is minimal..

This should allow you to continue buying but you have to obtain a 10% deposit every time.

When we look up in the market at "Blue Chip" properties, it seems we get the Capital Growth but Their month to month Cashflow is rather poor.

Which allows us to continue buying, using the equity form the growth but we eventually reach a "loan serviceablity" problem.

hmm.. Speaking simply

So if I take this train of thought and use a deposit bond to obtain a "Blue Chip" off the plan with a 1 - 2 year settlement, then utlitise the Capital growth and ask the Financier to loan me against the CURRENT valuation at the time of settlement as opposed to the Purchased value.

If the Growth exceeded the 20% difference of Purchase price versus What the Bank will lend you. Then effectively you can buy with 100% finance.. Difficult? Impossible?

And then if you can buy in bulk with others at a discount price..

Maybe not..

but then again, I live in Sydney with a modest wage so my affordability for a "Blue Chip" here in Sydney is out of the question..


I already had these thoughts churning in my mind and it seems HK uses this method..

Im going to write another post under a new post listing also..


Matthew
 
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"Henry Kaye- OTP, 100%25 Finance, Extended Settleme"

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Dave :)


On 7/13/01 10:45:00 AM, Matthew Campbell wrote:

>If the Growth exceeded the 20%
>difference of Purchase price
>versus What the Bank will lend
>you. Then effectively you can
>buy with 100% finance..
>Difficult? Impossible?

No, not impossible. Develop a relationship with a broker who understands your gaols and methods, one that preferably invests in property also. Buy the right property, in the right suburb, at the right price, and one that has an extended settlement period....do your research and you'll find them.

>And then if you can buy in
>bulk with others at a discount
>price..

Yes, that happens a lot. HK advocates this and has done it in the past. I've never done his courses, so I don't know what he's promoting now...although you can bet he's struggling to meet the demand from his graduates wanting to buy off the plan properties in growth areas - the market is so HOT and vendors are getting MORE than their asking price so why would they discount their entire development?

Define your strategy Mat. Learn from those who have done, and are doing, what you aim to do, apply what you've learned, and go for it! To wait until you've done every course and seminar, from every presenter in Australia, will still leave you thinking "am I ready yet?" Procrastination is the greatest cause of unrealized potential in the world.

Cheers,

Dave
:)

"Nothing is more difficult, and therefore more precious, than being able to decide" (Napoleon Bonaparte)
 
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"Henry Kaye- OTP, 100%25 Finance, Extended Settlement"

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2
From: Ross Sondergeld


Hi e-Ian,

HK Seminar...

You said, "Some Advantages for me... (1) The thought of venturing into IP is
scary and having his program indicate that they will be there for me to
assist in my purchase, is comforting."

Hmmmm... assist in your purchase?

Are you sure. Does HK SELL something to you or help you BUY it...

Although, I am unsure how HK earns his money. I'm pretty sure he collects a
selling fee when they sell something to you.

Therefore, as the seller's agent he has a legal obligation to act in the
seller's best interests at all times. This duty of absolute loyalty is to
the seller, not you the buyer and/or seminar attendee.


P.S. I know I harp on about the same point over and over. But people loss
$$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ thinking someone is there to help them !!!


Ross on the Gold Coast

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" Imagine buying real estate the easy way...
...with a Buyer Agent on your side!!! "

Buyerside Real Estate Mobile 0412 289 464
Office 9b, 34 Glenferrie Drive Office (07) 5562 1555
East Quay Corporate Park Fax (07) 5562 1248
Robina QLD 4226, Gold Coast [email protected]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
 
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"Henry Kaye- OTP, 100%25 Finance, Extended Settlement"

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1
From: T W


What happens if you buy a property off the plan hoping will increase 20% in value by settlement and it doesn’t? And worse, what if you are unable to get a loan at that time?

pi
 
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"Henry Kaye- OTP, 100%25 Finance, Extended Settlement"

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1
From: Duncan M


On 7/16/01 1:20:00 PM, T W wrote:
>What happens if you buy a
>property off the plan hoping
>will increase 20% in value by
>settlement and it doesn’t? And
>worse, what if you are unable
>to get a loan at that time?


Worse still, what if the sky falls!?
 
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"Re: Henry Kaye- OTP, 100%25 Finance, Extended Settlement"

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1
From: Terry Avery


I am slightly surprised by Duncan's response as he normally provides
balanced views. I have to say I agree with T W. Buying off the plan involves
a risk and it seems a lot of people at the moment are buying off the plan on
the hope of an increase in capital gain. The promoters of this method made
their bucks before the current bubble, and if you can't see the hype in the
market at the moment then take off the rose coloured glasses. Ability to get
finance is also another risk. My opinion is that the current market is not
favourable to using this strategy, sadly I think those who are doing so will
feel as though the sky has fallen on them in a year or two.

Cheers

Terry
 
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"Re: Henry Kaye- OTP, 100%25 Finance, Extended Settlement"

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1
From: Duncan M


I wasnt endorsing the strategy.. I know next to nothing about it.. I was just doing a Henny Penny impersonation :) Cluck Cluck..

The strategy seems to play upon the desire for MORE wealth NOW desire that plagues most of us..

My own personal approach is boring and staid, always buy, never sell, a mix of properties consisting of 'good little earners' and hi growth stars. As growth and income permit (LVR/DSR), I buy more. I seek to know as much about taxation as I can. I concentrate on specific market segments in Adelaide and I read financial books as often as time permits..

Having said that, I know I'll branch out at some point into higher earning, more lucrative investments, maybe it'll be Off the Plan who knows?

I'd certainly advise against new investors taking the OTP strategy for exactly the reasons "TW" has highlighted earlier, it does appear to be very high risk and its certainly the flavour of the month so to speak.. I feel most uncomfortable with the network style of marketing being used to promote it as well..

Cheers, Duncan.
 
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"Henry Kaye- OTP, 100%25 Finance, Extended Settleme"

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.3
From: Anonymous


Hi e-Ian,

I've recently been informed by someone who has done the Henry Kaye course, that they won't be holding your hand to purchase the first property. This it what I believed would be the case, but they only do this for a % fee of the property price. It is one of those annoying things that you are lead to believe, and are never told about until the end.

PS: I've only posted this anonymously because I haven't yet pulled out of the course myself.
 
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"Henry Kaye- OTP, 100%25 Finance, Extended Settleme"

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.3.1
From: Lan Diep


Thanks...

"He that is of the opinion money will do everything may well be suspected of doing everything for money."
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790
 
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