here come the drums of a global slowdown..

hard assets like unencumbered property and gold bullion will hold some value in a market in free fall.

I wasn't aware the market value of unencumbered property differed from encumbered property! Must make a note of that... :p

But seriously - if you are worried about your interest rate exposure then hedge it - for 10 years if need be. If you are concerned about the sustainability of your income stream then you can hedge some of that risk too.

Thanks for the timely reminder of the risks and the need to manage them but where do you draw the line? LVRs of 0%, 20%, 40%, 60%, 80%, ... ? It's all relative and really dependent on how negative the cashflow is and the SANF for every individual. If you have hedged your IR risk and haven't stretched yourself then an environment of rising rents is great fun! A blanket statement of "go to cash" with all the transaction costs is the worst advice IMHO.
 
with the tanking of the DJI lately, i believe this now means the US is in a proper recession (ie 2q of negative growth).

i see banks following suit with the value of their shares, being so heavily tied to the S&P.

will be interesting to see what happens with the Russell2000 next week, if the Russell will "buoy" the S&P or the S&P will drag the Russell. I think that'll be an indication of just how soft a landing this will be.
 
the value of the asset certainly differs... if it is 100% encumbered then you don't own any asset

It doesn't matter how much you own, the market value is determined by how much someone else is prepared to pay for it, which is independent of your individual LVR, unless people get a sniff that you're a distressed seller! ;)

If you believe unencumbered property will hold its value, then the same is true for encumbered property... Their market value goes up and down together, that much is obvious. The leverage impact with downturns is another matter altogether.

Just to separate the concepts of asset market value (unrelated to LVR) and risk exposure if a drop in value does eventuate (highly sensitive to LVR).
 
It doesn't matter how much you own, the market value is determined by how much someone else is prepared to pay for it, which is independent of your individual LVR, unless people get a sniff that you're a distressed seller! ;)

If you believe unencumbered property will hold its value, then the same is true for encumbered property... Their market value goes up and down together, that much is obvious. The leverage impact with downturns is another matter altogether.

Just to separate the concepts of asset market value (unrelated to LVR) and risk exposure if a drop in value does eventuate (highly sensitive to LVR).

there is no doubt the value to someone else has no relation to your leverage, but the value to you certainly does. it's been around since cocky was an egg and still holds true come bull or bear market:

assets - liabilities = proprietorship

or A = P-L

etc
 
Unencumbered vs encumbered in a market in freefall

It doesn't matter how much you own, the market value is determined by how much someone else is prepared to pay for it, which is independent of your individual LVR, unless people get a sniff that you're a distressed seller! ;)

If you believe unencumbered property will hold its value, then the same is true for encumbered property... Their market value goes up and down together, that much is obvious. The leverage impact with downturns is another matter altogether.

Just to separate the concepts of asset market value (unrelated to LVR) and risk exposure if a drop in value does eventuate (highly sensitive to LVR).

Hi Equity, I was a bit amused by your response. Yes if we have a stable or rising property market then all things being equal the value is the same for both. But in a market where prices are falling and interest rates are rising the higher your debt level the riskier your house of cards is to the vagaries of a financial firestorm.

We have had 16 years of unprecedented growth and it seems some cannot see the forest for the trees. I'm not suggesting you sell all your properties and put it into cash. I am suggesting that if you want to make hay when the streets are filled with red ink, reduce your debt and have enough reserves so that when the inevitable occurs in oz sometime in 2009/10 your able to withstand the crunch.

Any idiot could make a profit in property over the last 16 years. The next ten years will sort out those who are investors rather than speculators. Two years ago when gold was around $600 an ounce many laughed when I suggested on this site that 1-5% of your net worth in gold bullion was not a bad insurance policy.

Although the aussie $ is flying high now that can change quickly and I have never been a fan of governments printing money without gold bullion to back it up hence the name fiat currency.
 
Paper equities are not my cup of tea

So, nonrecourse, with those views are you fully in cash?

How do you plan for a depression? besides gold?

I would guess if a depression were to occur, property would lose just as much percentage wise as shares. Most of the highly leaveraged share investors are already out of the game. Not so property.


If you were right, it's a case of he who loses least wins. People with no debt, will be able to take advantage of opportunities. Not sure if cash is the go though?

See ya's.

Hi top I agree with you that converting all your assets into cash is risky. In the changing times we are encountering recently I like hard assets that I can sink my teeth into such as gold bullion and property free of debt or at least debt with limited recourse finance.:D

I'm not quite there yet but I'm working at it. I thought we would have another year of breathing space but not so sure now. October will be an interesting month.
 
Hi NR,

You made a very good point:

“We have had 16 years of unprecedented growth and it seems some cannot see the forest for the trees. I'm not suggesting you sell all your properties and put it into cash. I am suggesting that if you want to make hay when the streets are filled with red ink, reduce your debt and have enough reserves.”

all major sharemarkets now in bear territory .. anyone know the last time this event happened, and the consequences!

cant wait for the olympics ... :)
 
Associating with criminals

Hi Trendsta;
I'm not to keen on where the Olympics are being held. Any government that would support that mad man Mugabe and what is happening in Zimbabwe should be strung up:eek:
 
trendsta - the olympics aren't to blame for any drop in the world economy.

sept 08 will be to blame.

hedge your bets with gold and oil.
 
To cheer everyone up, this is something a little bit more positive:

http://www.wealthwithin.com.au/all-ords-report/all-ords-report-15-jul-08/

There is an old saying that the darkest hour is just before dawn and this is, at times, a very appropriate phrase when referring to the share market. In October 1997 experts were predicting a global meltdown as a result of the Asia crisis, yet our market rose 40% over the next two years. The same situation arose following the tech wreck in 2000, yet our market rose over 18% the following year.

Following the September 11 crisis, experts where once again predicting doom and gloom for the world economies, but our market only fell around 6% over the next 18 months into March 2003. Since then, we have had the biggest bull market in history; therefore the pull back in the previous 12 months is a natural process whereby the market is simply adjusting to more realistic levels. Since the Asia crisis our market has risen nearly 130%, despite three major events that were predicted to have enormous impact on our economy. The question that remains then, is it time to buy? Not yet but it is getting pretty dark, so be prepared.

So what can we expect in the market?

Over the past eight weeks the market has been in a sustained down move, with the All Ordinaries falling to a low of around 4900 points today. The last time our market fell for a prolonged period was the eight-week fall into the March 2003 low, and we all know how well the market performed following this low. Given that the market has once again fallen for eight weeks, it is highly likely it will rebound over the next one or two weeks, although I don’t expect it will rise in a sustained bull market like it did out of the March 2003 low.

While it is possible that any rebound in the next few weeks could signal an end to the current market fall, I believe it is likely to be short lived as I am expecting the market to fall away one more time to exhaust the current downtrend to eventually find support around 4800 points in the coming month, although it is possible it could fall to the next level of support at 4316 points. Once this occurs, I strongly believe the market will return to being bullish.

While I would urge investors to remain patient, I believe it is time to get ready to take advantage of the next bullish move, which will occur in the not to distant future. As I have indicated previously, I still expect the second half of this year to produce good profits for those who are patient.
 
feihong, not wanting to be gloomy, but I get his commentary too and his accuracy over recent times has been shocking. Actually it isn't that bad - you just got to do the opposite :D Having said that I agree with him that 4800 is a good support level.
 
feihong, not wanting to be gloomy, but I get his commentary too and his accuracy over recent times has been shocking. Actually it isn't that bad - you just got to do the opposite :D Having said that I agree with him that 4800 is a good support level.

I agree, has been shocking lately :p Just post it here to cheer everyone up, especially the phrase "darkest hour is just before the dawn".

I find "xjo" discussions in hotcopper forum a lot more accurate, with a lot of beautiful work done on cycles.
 
i won;t be thinking about any move until the 12DMA crosses the 24DMA, and then when the 50DMA crosses the 200DMA i will look for stocks.

i want trend confirmed before i place my money on the table - even at the expense of 10-15% profit
 
Hi NR and BC,

My reference to the polympics (political games) was regarding the future impact. I am of firm view that chinese will take drastic action to subdue demand and reign in inflatioary problems...

If you look at global indcators such as BDI index, and also look at some of emerging signs it is apparent chinese are stocking up on everything to ensure the party goes smoothly .. but once guests have gone, expect some quick and tight measures to appear ..

my conclusion - slowdown to continue .. Australia will experience the impact next year ..
 
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24033320-5005962,00.html

US inflation hits 26-year high

On a 12-month basis, CPI was up 5.0 per cent in June, the hottest annual inflation level since May 1991. Core CPI was 2.4 per cent higher than in June 2007, the strongest rate since March.

The report underscored Federal Reserve concerns about rising inflation and sluggish growth -- the noxious combination of stagflation -- as the economy battles fierce headwinds from financial turmoil and the worst housing crisis in decades.

"Inflation is currently too high,'' Fed chairman Ben Bernanke said in a second day of testimony to Congress, speaking after the CPI data release.

"And it's a top priority of the Federal Reserve to run a policy that's going to bring inflation to an acceptable level consistent with price stability as we go forward,'' he told the House of Representatives in his second day of semiannual testimony to Congress.

Mr Bernanke, however, emphasized that ``the enormous jumps in oil prices and other commodity prices are to some extent at least due to real factors out of the control of the Federal Reserve.''

"It's the global supply and demand conditions which are affecting those particular things to the most significant extent,'' he added, a day after delivering a grim report to the Senate.

The Fed chief's remarks indicated the central bank, which has slashed its key interest rate to 2.0 per cent in recent months, would be hard-pressed to loosen monetary policy in the face of accelerating inflation.

"Inflation is the bind that ties the Fed and it is quite tight right now,'' said Joel Naroff of Naroff Economic Advisors.

Bank of America economist Peter Kretzmer said that in light of Bernanke's testimony Tuesday indicating both downside risks to the economy and upside risks to inflation, "this morning's extreme spike in headline inflation and unfavorable core reading are particularly unwelcome.''

"The CPI report underlines the current stagflation, and points to the variety of difficulties faced by the Fed,'' he added.

Kenneth Beauchemin, US economist at Global Insight, said the inflation trend combined with the current growth outlook signals the Fed "will take a pass on rate hikes until 2009. Indeed, the remote chance for financial disaster in the coming months keeps a rate cut on the table.''

===============

In my simplistic view, it all comes down to the price of oil and whether it will continue to rise or begins to plateau.

In the US a drop in oil prices will see a drop in inflation, allowing monetary policy to loosen and housing and shares to recover.
In Australia we are on the verge of an artificial recession, but if oil prices stabilise we could see interest rates come off up to 1% in 12 months as inflation stabilises and strong commodity prices maintain our exports/imports.

If oil prices continue to rise, then who knows how the Australian government will react, they have prevented inflation snowballing by tightening the economy but if they tighten it any more then we are going to see a severe recession, would they prefer that severe recession and controlled inflation or would they prefer increasing inflation and a soft landing.
 
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ASX Support Levels - What do they really indicate?

I often hear about these suppport levels? What are they supposed to indicate? :confused:

Stock indices have often pushed below these levels, especially recently. Its also implied and presented as soon as you go lower, the bottom is supposed to fall out of the market.
 
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