Highly recommend/Long



From: Michelle Riley

Someone on the old forum(gosh time moves on)
mentioned a guy called John T Reed's website.
I've found it to be fantastic and highly recommend all the newbies check it out.
He has a Real Estate B.S. Artist Detection Checklist.
He's very tough.Obviously many wouldn't agree
with some of his assessments.
I was amused to see that John Burley is unknown to him?
I guess,making it in The States is not like making it here.
I'm very impressed that Mr Reed brought up the topic of ethics.Personally this is a very important issue in my life.
I've just read Anita Roddick's,The Body Shop Lady's Book.She's a woman I admire and respect for her strong business ethics.
I realise people have different perspectives
on what they consider to be okay.
It's often entertaining to me how people can
and do justify what I might consider crossing
over the line.
I'm not trying to spark a moral debate here.
For me,an arrangement has to sit right with
my belief system.As much as possible I try not to compromise on that.
IMO John T Reed's is a good site.
Years a go a site like this saved me a lot
precious time,energy and money not to mention face!I was briefly involved in an
American based MLM company.Following my own
suspicions I discovered what I'd begun to realise is that the BULK of the money was made in the tapes,books and meetings.Less than 1% made it to the big time.
Not to mention that some of the founders etc held extreme right wing beliefs that are
opposed to mine and people I'd want to know.
Sorry if I'm off course here.
My point is we need consumer watchdogs.
We need to be informed.
Stepping off soapbox.
Cheers Michelle
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Reply: 1
From: Sim' Hampel

What's the URL ?

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Highly recommend/Long - URL

Reply: 1.1
From: John (Brisbane)

Hi Michelle, Hi Sim'

Yes, it is a great site. It's funny when you read his comments about unknown (to myself) American Gurus' that they seem to be a fitting description of some our local gurus.

John T. Reed's real estate investment home page is at:

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Analysis Paralysis

Reply: 2
From: Sim' Hampel

Found a really good page on John T. Reeds site about Analysis Paralysis...


This is just what the more experienced investors on this forum there keep telling us... JUST DO IT !

I wonder how many of us new to property investment really, really, listen to and understand this advice ?

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Analysis Paralysis

Reply: 2.1
From: Jude H

Had to laugh. This guy is saying there's nothing worth reading out there except for his books (with a couple of exceptions). Novel approach. Who's he kidding? We've got Jan!

Did read analysis paralysis though. He just might have something there.



PS Sim where did you do that crazy thing with your name?
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More Protectionism is not what's needed

Reply: 3
From: Kevin Forster

I have looked at the site and wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Such negative diatribe on almost everyone except himself. I wonder how he stacks up to the BS checklist.

Consumer Watchdogs is just another name for Protectionism. The real estate market is the best as it is a relatively open market with no one setting the price for a house. The value of a house is what a vendor will sell for and a buyer will pay. The overall market has very little relevance other than a guide as no two properties are exactly the same.

The best advice came from Robert Kyosaki and that's get your personal debt in order and then start with a small real estate deal. Even Robert got his first one wrong when he showed it to his rich dad. If the deal goes wrong then call it the price of education. I've only just started with 2 properties in IPs and all I can say is that I spent 2 years reading about it. Probably learnt more when I put my money on the line than reading for 2 years.

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More Protectionism is not what's needed

Reply: 3.1
From: Kristine .


In 1907 a definition of market value was established in case law in the Australian High Court by Chief Justice Griffiths when determining the case of "Spencer v The Commonwealth of Australia" as ... "What would a man desiring to buy the land have had to pay for it on that day to a vendor willing to sell it for a fair price but not desirous to sell?"

The essence of this definition is

* a willing but not anxious vendor

* a purchaser willing but not anxious to buy without prejudice to his or her own best interests

* both parties well informed of all matters affecting the current or future use of the property

* the value pertains to a particular date.
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More Protectionism is not what's needed

Reply: 3.1.1
From: Kristine .


Your quote....

I realise people have
>different perspectives
>on what they consider to be
>It's often entertaining to me
>how people can
>and do justify what I might
>consider crossing
>over the line. .....

Yes, it's interesting how the fashionable slogan is "Ethics in Real Estate / or Used Car Sales / Left Handed Gizmos", but ethics, like charity, starts at home.

May I bore you all with another quote, this time from Abraham Lincoln? I'm not sure when he said this, but I have had it hanging on my wall for nearly 30 years

"Labour was prior to capital, but property is the fruit of labour.

That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise.

Let not he who is houseless pull down the house of another, but rather let him work diligently and build one for himself, thus by example, ensuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built."

Shortcuts where we seek to take unfair or unethical advantage of others are not the foundation for moral and lasting wealth. And yes, from my perspective getting up on your soapbox is a terrific idea. Let me hold your coat and sell the tickets!


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More Protectionism is not what's needed

Reply: 3.2
From: Frode Egeland

Good advice!

I've been reading for 8 months or so, and I'm aiming to buy my first IP within the next 4 months. :)

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More Protectionism is not what's needed

Reply: 3.3
From: Michelle Riley

Hi Kevin,respect your opinion but don't agree.
I hope ALL newbies do check out John Reed's site.
One could easily assume he's knocking everyone but himself.Not so he favours quiet a few.Look at the price of his books and tapes.They are just regular retail prices.
Nothing like the $600 I just recently paid.
I don't think it's as much about protectionism as it's about awareness.
A newbie recently was asking about free seminars.Seems like they often have strings attached,be aware there are no free lunches.
These gurus are often appealing to the inexperienced.Obviously if you've made it you don't need to spend thousands of dollars learning how.
Within a few minutes of listening to a certain real estate tape set I recognized a haunting similarity with
the style and jargon of a Multi Level Marketing Company.
I wasn't the least bit surprised to read that
some of the failed gurus after bankruptcy took up with MLM companies.
John Reed brings up some excellent points about real estate.Even though he didn't give Kiyosaki a good wrap,I'm certain Reed would agree with the advice that you have just mentioned.
Take what you like and leave the rest but do yourself a favour and check it out!
Cheers Michelle
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More Protectionism is not what's needed

Reply: 3.1.2
From: Sim' Hampel

Damn girl, you really do study legal history for pleasure don't you !

I'm impressed (I think).

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Re: Analysis Paralysis

Reply: 2.2
From: Terry Avery

I find it interesting that some people latch on to a guru with a great
amount of zeal and attack anyone who puts forward a contrary view.
Personally I think John T. Reed puts forward some commonsense logic for
detecting BS. Yes he does promote his own books but they are reasonably
priced like Jan's books and more importantly he states quite clearly that
they are based on U.S.A. markets and therefore will not sell to people
overseas, even though he could probably charge a premium for providing the
service, because he doesn't know enough about our markets to sell us his
books. I think that is fairly ethical behaviour. Jan promotes her books on
her site so should we all dump on her? I think not, to do so is not
rational. If you can't tell that people are trying to make a crust by
selling on the internet (Jan, The Wife, Geoff Doidge - all people I respect
for the hard work that got them where they are and their willingness to
educate the rest of us) then pull your head out of the sand. Yet people on
this forum will bag John T. Reed because he said something bad about their

As an investor I read widely but I don't believe everything I read and I
believe I can spot a motivational writer who is very light on actual detail
of what they have done. I reflect upon what I read and compare it to other's
ideas and make up my own mind but if I disagree I don't go dumping on the
author without justifying why.

I also can't believe the number of people, usually newbies, who post on the
forum asking about Brisbane when they live in another state and haven't
bothered to look in their own backyard and try to understand how it all
works. Before you all flame me my first property was in Brisbane and I paid
too much and I was not even in the country when I bought it (but in the long
run it is working out OK... buy and hold works).

I will get off the soapbox now and let some others have their say.
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Checking out the site - long.

Reply: 3.3.1
From: Kevin Forster


I had looked at the site previously and went back to check on if John T Reed has posted a link to Robert's reply to the criticisms. I look on RichDad.com to see if it was still there but couldn't find it.

The site design hasn't been improved in any way but then John T Reed is running a one man company (I think that's called an 'S'). One interesting thing is John talks about the tax reform act of 1986 and how disastrous it was. The non tax deductibility of interest was also tried in Australia and the people that caught were those that negatively geared. Those that stayed in game made huge amounts of money as rental accomodation became almost non-existent as investors fled the IP market which then pushed up rents. Those that know how to make money know how to make it when the market is booming or crashing.

Some of the other gurus he mentions I haven't heard of.

The BS detector would work really well on those marketing companies that run seminars selling inner city apartments and properties in other states. Especially if you ask the "course presenter/teacher" how many of the properties he/she owns.

A quick disclaimer that I have never attended any multi day course but have gone to some of the 3 hr 1 night ones by Robert Kiyosaki and John Burley which were quite good for information. John Burley was very good - with handouts to take away and read later. Even those sessions still contain some marketing for the 3 day courses. I'd recommend starting with those as they cost about $50 so you don't really lose anything.

I'm probably still a newbie but bought the first of two properties last year for 74k in Melbourne. My advice to newbies is just do it - find a small deal that works and go for it.

I just get a bee in my bonnet about people that bag people more successful than themselves. Probably rebelling against the Australian Tall Poppy syndrome.

Sorry about the long post

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