Hong Kong Democracy Protests

Hong Kong's pretty different because, as I expected, the citizens are now out in numbers cracking down on the students. Most HK people share my view. The police don't need to do anything.

Of course, we'd never hear this in western media as they gear up for their containment, ahem, "engagement" strategy with China.

I escaped from a commi country and people like us know the china government dirty tactic very well. Those "citizens" are from the mainland hired by the commi government to disturb the demonstration so that the police have a reason to interfere. Demonstrators were briefed about this tactic hence they keep silent and not respond to those people called themselves "the HK citizens". Can't disturb the students, these people go to the extend pretending to fight with each other themselves to destroy the peacefulness of the demonstration. And this is only the start of how dirty the chinese commi goverment could get to.

BTW, this is how many has joint the demonstration, a tad more than 3000 I think. I wish the HK students/people all the best.

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I escaped from a commi country and people like us know the china government dirty tactic very well. Those "citizens" are from the mainland hired by the commi government to disturb the demonstration so that the police have a reason to interfere. Demonstrators were briefed about this tactic hence they keep silent and not respond to those people called themselves "the HK citizens". Can't disturb the students, these people go to the extend pretending to fight with each other themselves to destroy the peacefulness of the demonstration. And this is only the start of how dirty the chinese commi goverment could get to.

briefed by whom? wait, you are not suggesting that the protests are organised by someone external? :D
 
Beanie Girl: you think too cynically of me. I actually think HK has the best of both worlds. Free market and rule of law.

What are we going to do under democracy, vote for an anti-China leader so Beijing takes more away from the city and multinationals relocate to Shanghai, traffic and ports relocate to Guangzhou? Despite all this rhetoric from the US about supporting HK, we all know when push comes to shove they are going to trade with Shanghai and Guangzhou if that's what Beijing wants. For the moral principles of some, we are gambling with a lot on the line, and it's not as if things are bad now. Why gamble? Sub 3% unemployment, over 5% GDP, NBN already built. Figures we can only aspire to even during the mining boom.

Anyway I can tell you first hand there are lots of anti protesters. But they need to work and don't have as much time as students.
 
Just for the record, if I thought it was good for HK, I would happily watch my holdings there plummet by 30% (any more and I'd have to denounce my heritage haha). I'd even offer free accommodation to these students. They obviously don't have me convinced. And I'm from their generation.
 
I actually think HK has the best of both worlds. Free market and rule of law.

What are we going to do under democracy, vote for an anti-China leader so Beijing takes more away from the city and multinationals relocate to Shanghai, traffic and ports relocate to Guangzhou? Despite all this rhetoric from the US about supporting HK, we all know when push comes to shove they are going to trade with Shanghai and Guangzhou if that's what Beijing wants. For the moral principles of some, we are gambling with a lot on the line, and it's not as if things are bad now. Why gamble? Sub 3% unemployment, over 5% GDP, NBN already built. Figures we can only aspire to even during the mining boom.

Anyway I can tell you first hand there are lots of anti protesters. But they need to work and don't have as much time as students.

China promised Hong Kong 'One country, two systems'. If China is going to change it to 'One country, one system', the multinationals will leave and pack up to go to Shanghai and Guangzhou anyway. You have made the singular most important point. Hong Kong still has the British rule of law, the legacy of British rule. That makes it very attractive for multinationals to stay in Hong Kong and do business. Erode that system bit by bit, beginning by insisting that the leaders of Hong Kong must be handpicked by Beijing, will multinationals have trust in the future leaders of Hong Kong? Will the goal posts keep changing? The businesses will be suspicious and business climate uncertain. Perceptions quickly become reality.

Erode the British rule of law and the democratic freedoms Hong Kong has, business will flow out of Hong Kong to places like Singapore and the likes of Shanghai (which was always Beijing's master plan anyway since 1997).

The students and the people have to try to preserve their democratic freedoms and the integrity of their rule of law and other systems which is Hong Kong's competitive advantage.
 
business doesn't care about freedoms, they only care about profits and risks.

if slavery was more productive than current system, it would still be a very common occurrence in all the democratic countries. just like it was in the country that invented democracy :D
 
Erode the British rule of law and the democratic freedoms Hong Kong has, business will flow out of Hong Kong to places like Singapore and the likes of Shanghai (which was always Beijing's master plan anyway since 1997).

.

As the One Country Two Systems is only meant to be for fifty years since handover in 1997 and is already under threat, it sounds like Hong Kong does not seem to be an attractive place to invest and buy into. I suspect that there will be another wave of immigration outwards in the years to come, just like before 1997. The tycoons in HK have already started to divest their holdings to safer pastures such as North American and Australia.
 
As the One Country Two Systems is only meant to be for fifty years since handover in 1997 and is already under threat, it sounds like Hong Kong does not seem to be an attractive place to invest and buy into. I suspect that there will be another wave of immigration outwards in the years to come, just like before 1997. The tycoons in HK have already started to divest their holdings to safer pastures such as North American and Australia.

so if you so smart tell us, why so many people who invest in china wouldn't invest in HK? :D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilli
I escaped from a commi country and people like us know the china government dirty tactic very well. Those "citizens" are from the mainland hired by the commi government to disturb the demonstration so that the police have a reason to interfere. Demonstrators were briefed about this tactic hence they keep silent and not respond to those people called themselves "the HK citizens". Can't disturb the students, these people go to the extend pretending to fight with each other themselves to destroy the peacefulness of the demonstration. And this is only the start of how dirty the chinese commi goverment could get to.

briefed by whom? wait, you are not suggesting that the protests are organised by someone external?
No "someone external" was not what I was suggesting. My point was that the demonstrastors knews about those old dirty tactics of the Chinese commies and therefore tried to remain calm so did not fall into the trap.
 
so if you so smart tell us, why so many people who invest in china wouldn't invest in HK? :D

He is referring to the business which is in HK now. Take away the common law and HK tax system and a lot of business and capital with leave HK for elsewhere..not China.

Re the slavery thing, refer slave trade act 1807, slavery abolition act 1833 and anti slavery society and get some learning. Slavery was not abolished because it was uneconomic.
 
He is referring to the business which is in HK now. Take away the common law and HK tax system and a lot of business and capital with leave HK for elsewhere..not China.

.

Exactly, it is the rule of law introduced by the British, the cheap work force, independent judiciary and media which has transformed Hong Kong from a barren rock into the international mercantile capital of today. Lose any of these four pillars and Hong Kong becomes the same as any other mainland city.
 
China promised Hong Kong 'One country, two systems'. If China is going to change it to 'One country, one system', the multinationals will leave and pack up to go to Shanghai and Guangzhou anyway. You have made the singular most important point. Hong Kong still has the British rule of law, the legacy of British rule. That makes it very attractive for multinationals to stay in Hong Kong and do business. Erode that system bit by bit, beginning by insisting that the leaders of Hong Kong must be handpicked by Beijing, will multinationals have trust in the future leaders of Hong Kong? Will the goal posts keep changing? The businesses will be suspicious and business climate uncertain. Perceptions quickly become reality.

Erode the British rule of law and the democratic freedoms Hong Kong has, business will flow out of Hong Kong to places like Singapore and the likes of Shanghai (which was always Beijing's master plan anyway since 1997).

The students and the people have to try to preserve their democratic freedoms and the integrity of their rule of law and other systems which is Hong Kong's competitive advantage.

Erode the rule of law and businesses will go to, did you say Shanghai, where there was no British law to begin with?

A trip to Hong Kong and Shanghai and it's obvious these two cities have done nothing but grow tremendously in past 10 years. What's the US' interventionist agenda here hmmm?
 
What everyone said is true. But don't forget rule of law is not the same thing as democracy. China had greatest rule of law under the monarchies of Hanwudi, Tangtaizong and Kangxi. There are also many countries with democracy but no rule of law today.
 
People seem to compare Hong kong to war torn countries. Amazing. Why don't we compare it close to home, say, what if Abbott says from now on you can vote, but only from candidates chosen from the liberal party, or what if shorten somehow manage to change the laws so that we can vote only for people from the labour party to represent australia?

Trust me, there will be protest australia wide if thats the case, and I do not think "what about the shop keepers" will do anything to quell the discontent. Your argument with "importance of rule of law" and "but australia is still better than eygpt syria etc." will suddenly even sound hallow/ridiculous to yourself.;)
 
the reason people compare it to war torn countries is because those countries weren't war torn before protests started there.

they became war torn as a direct result of protests.

so to continue your analogy, what if there were protests like you suggest, but as a result radicals came to power and tried to introduce shariah laws instead (for example).
 
Too many 'western' commentary on this topic.

Totally agree with Deltaberry, if only because many of my non-mainland Chinese friends think likewise.

Hong Kong has been stable, its been a good place to make money.
Life is never perfect, things could be worse, a stable place to make money over-rides democracy for democracy's sake.

Its not just Deltaberry who thinks like this.
Many Chinese do, especially those who have passed their teenage years.
 
Too many 'western' commentary on this topic.

Totally agree with Deltaberry, if only because many of my non-mainland Chinese friends think likewise.

Hong Kong has been stable, its been a good place to make money.
Life is never perfect, things could be worse, a stable place to make money over-rides democracy for democracy's sake.

Its not just Deltaberry who thinks like this.
Many Chinese do, especially those who have passed their teenage years.

+1 to this.
We don't need this so called umbrella protest in HK.
 
Hong Kong has been stable, its been a good place to make money.
Life is never perfect, things could be worse, a stable place to make money over-rides democracy for democracy's sake.

Thousands of Hong Kongers swelling the streets in protest would beg to disagree with you. They endured pepper spray, teargas from the police, yet they were undeterred and even more people joined the peaceful demonstrations in a show of civil disobedience to send a pro-democracy message to Beijing.

To understand Hong Kongers anxieties about their future, let's take a quick look at the roots of the protest in Hong Kong.

In 2012, China through the HK central executive sought to implement 'Moral and National Education' in the Hong Kong education curriculum.

"The China Model," includes statements, that China's ruling party is "progressive, selfless and united." It also criticized multi-party systems as bringing disaster to countries such as the United States. The booklet makes no mention of major events in China's history, such as the Cultural Revolution purging and the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre, events integral to China's history. So it is dissemination of propaganda and a redacting of history.

"We don't want the next generation of Hong Kong people to be brainwashed," said Joshua Wong, then 15, the convener of Scholarism. Parents, teachers, students rallied against the 'Moral and National Education'.

In 2004, under the 'one country, two systems', China promised Hong Kong more autonomy, democratic freedoms and 'universal suffrage', the right to vote directly for their Chief Executive in 2017. Now in 2014 China has declared that while the people can vote, they can only vote from amongst a pool of Beijing-approved candidates. Can you call that a 'free and fair election'? Hong Kong people are protesting at the reneging of the promises by China. They only want what was promised by China to them. Hong Kongers want the freedom to nominate candidates of their choice, someone who will look after the interests of Hong Kong while still being able to work with Beijing.

Hong Kongers are alarmed at the growing political interference from Beijing in their politics, media and education. More media outlets in Hong Kong are adopting a pro-Beijing stance and less and less of independence.

You are saying 'let's not upset the apple cart' so the elite, powerful and wealthy can make money at the expense of the increasingly voiceless, powerless and helpless Hong Kong people. What happens when the apple cart has no more apples or is full of only bad apples?

You and others are telling Hong Kongers to 'suck it up' so that you can continue to make money at the expense of their civil rights. Hmmmm, sublime.

"No need to use teargas, Hong Kong people are already crying"
 
Thousands of Hong Kongers swelling the streets in protest would beg to disagree with you. They endured pepper spray, teargas from the police, yet they were undeterred and even more people joined the peaceful demonstrations in a show of civil disobedience to send a pro-democracy message to Beijing.

what about millions that didn't? why do thousands think they can decide for millions?
 
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