How does Internet work when building granny flat?

[newstar]

Dear all

Currently planning to build a granny flat and wonder how would Internet work? Is it possible to have two Internet account on one title property(one for the main house and one for granny?)

If not, can someone shed some light how to solve the Internet access issue? I am not sure if the connection will be very stable if the granny flat rely on wireless access from the main house since 1. It's another 15metres away from the main house. 2. Even connection is established I am concerned how stable connection will be since we have 6 ppl in the main house using wireless Internet already. The granny flat could have max of 4 additional ppl using wireless internet. So total of 10 ppl using wireless internet (not to count no. Of smart phones and tablets each has). Could this demand be supported by wireless connection?

Cheers

 

[D.T.]

A couple of options

1) Get a new line laid by Telstra to that premise, once it's there it'll have a number associated with it and in turn will be able to organise an adsl connection as normal. This is the most expensive option, but at least then it'll be seperate and their own. Presumably they'll need phone as well, so this might be the only option?

2) From the main house, depending on distance/obstructions, the granny flat will probably be able to pick up it's wifi. The downside of this option is that it'll be usage on the same account and may reach the limits of the plan?

3) Grannyflat resident uses a 3g/4g connection available from telstra, optus, vodafone, etc

 

[travelbug]

If you have 1 person downloading movies all day and hogging up the bandwidth, every other user will suffer.

You can get around this by implementing QoS on your modem/router.

Hi, can you please explain this to me (simply).

We have a granny flat and agreed for them to use ours. We just upgraded to unlimited download and they paid the difference.

Not a problem so far. Just wondering.

 

[BuildingBlocks]

Hi, can you please explain this to me (simply).

We have a granny flat and agreed for them to use ours. We just upgraded to unlimited download and they paid the difference.

Not a problem so far. Just wondering.

Simple terms (some incorrect terminology used for the purposes of making it easy to understand):

Bandwidth - An Internet connection is capable of downloading at a maximum speed, this speed varies depending on the connection. Let's say your maximum speed is "1000" (just to make it a simple number). A single person could be downloading a movie and using all of that "1000", so anyone else who tries to use the Internet at the same time will have horrible performance.

QoS - Is set up so that you can choose how that 1000 is split up, which could be based on either the type of Internet use or split by users. For example you could dedicate a maximum of 500 of your 1000 total speed to movie type Internet traffic, leaving 500 remaining for people to share to browse websites. Alternatively you could identify all the tablets/phones/laptops in your house and give them unlimited and place limits on everything else.

Having said that, if it were up to me I would be getting the second phone line installed and not have to worry about it again.

It will save you arguments with renters about how much Internet they are using, or imagine if they were downloading lots of questionable material which was then linked back to your Internet account.

Do you want them knocking on the door in the middle of the night asking for technical support when their Internet is broken?

 

[D.T.]

Wifi can handle up to 254 users.

What makes you think theres a limit?
One of my clients is a 5 star resort with all of their staff and patrons all on wifi, over 1000 all up. Could be plenty more too.

 

[westminster]

Dear all

Currently planning to build a granny flat and wonder how would Internet work? Is it possible to have two Internet account on one title property(one for the main house and one for granny?)

If not, can someone shed some light how to solve the Internet access issue? I am not sure if the connection will be very stable if the granny flat rely on wireless access from the main house since 1. It's another 15metres away from the main house. 2. Even connection is established I am concerned how stable connection will be since we have 6 ppl in the main house using wireless Internet already. The granny flat could have max of 4 additional ppl using wireless internet. So total of 10 ppl using wireless internet (not to count no. Of smart phones and tablets each has). Could this demand be supported by wireless connection?

Cheers

For piece of mind do not share with the main house. You don't want them downloading something illegal and you as contract owner being responsible for it.

Either get them their own telephone line or tell them they need to get their own wireless contract and set up themselves.

 

[D.T.]

I don't. I was keeping it simple.

If a person is asking about whether wifi can handle x amount of users, you think they would know how to set up a network that could have over 1000 users?

Its a home network - using basic home networking equipment you can have up to 254 users connected simultaneously out of the box.

Why make up a random limit if you dont then?

For piece of mind do not share with the main house. You don't want them downloading something illegal and you as contract owner being responsible for it.

Either get them their own telephone line or tell them they need to get their own wireless contract and set up themselves.

Yep this, as per options 1 or 3 above.

 

[Paul@PFI]

Wifi can be boosted. Even Aldi sell a cheap (nasty ?? reviews indicate it works well) signal enhancer that extends range. 80 metres - 150m they claim. I recall seeing Telstra had something like it too that boosts mobiles plus wifi in poor reception areas. $80.

Power line adapters can be a way to circumvent physical telephone cabling (and therefore internet access through broadband) between one part of home and another. Only needs common electrical cabling. Aldi also sell these (Saw on weekend). Plug one into main house with telephone cable from wifi router into the adapter. Plug other adapter into granny flat and telephone cable out = internet. I use this in our two level home as rear room has a brick wall and cabling would be prohibities. Wifi signals too slow for gaming and foxtel and ipads and four phones and ....I think my dogs have ipads too?. Powerline is super fast !! Our HD foxtel and Ps4 NEVER affected by speed. May need a sparkie to test the cabling works for it first if its a granny flat. $80 for a single line in and out. More for multiple lines.

Let granny buy her own connection. Supermarkets sell mobile network USB connections for almost nothing on a prepaid. That way if granny is a porn queen uploading her vids you wont find your plan cut or data slow to a trickle. $29 a month granny pays. Depends on mobile strength in area.

Use the neigbours unlocked access ... My wifi printer works off the stupid neighbours unsecure wifi for past 8 years. I dont do d/loads to be fair. Free.

 

[D.T.]

Who said it was random?
Its based off a simple pre configured DHCP.
Most DHCP networks start from 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.254
Works out to be 253 (apologies i wrote 254 at the beginning).

Where are you getting that network range from, making it up?

Assuming someone can set up a network to cater for 1000+ DHCP clients on the basis that you knew someone else had done it..... im guessing thats way more helping.

I set it up.

Telling someone they may be able to pick up wifi depending on distance / obstructions.... thats great help. Sounds like you've put an artificial limit on the situation. What if changed the antennas or used boosters, or used a network cable to connect it to another router, or if they were on the same electrical network use a device like a Netcomm Powerline to run Ethernet over Power.

So your saying wifi isnt affected by obstructions? Standard 802.11n would like a word with you.

Anyway, go troll elsewhere.

If you read the thread, I was the first and only one to answer correctly. Provided multiple factual options and the downsides to each. If you would like some lessons on how this stuff works, drop by my office.

 

[D.T.]

Wow you're able to setup a 1000+ user network and yet you don't know what the default that most modem/routers come pre-configured with ?

Just because its the default range on some branded routers, doesnt mean it has any relevance to the thread. Have you tried reading the question? The question said he wants internet to the separate dwelling. Extending the wifi over there is one of the 3 options presented, and possibly the worst of the 3. Talking about LAN design doesnt come into it at all at this stage.

So if its were as easy to setup then why didn't they set it up themselves? Why would they call you?

It isnt easy, thats why an IT person got sent up there to do it. Again, no relevance to thread. It's just an example to prove that your limit was arbitrary. Refer to the above 3 options the OP has.

I didn't say it isn't affected. I said you put an artificial limitation. Depending on distance and obstructions one can look at ways around it. eg bigger antennas or EoP devices.

Firstly it isnt artificial, and secondly it doesnt really matter if there's ways around it because that'd be part of the design if choosing that option anyway. The other 2 options are more attractive for the needs if you read the original scope.

You must be so proud. Its amazing how one can think they know so much about setting up networks yet not know the most common default settings on a router.

But i guessing you do, so you must be lining up to drum up business and charge this person consulting fees on how to set things up. Nice!

I provided my 3 options. If you would like to contribute additional options I'm all ears. Or if you want to continue your little diatribe, i can do that too.

 

[Banvard]

Just because its the default range on some branded routers, doesnt mean it has any relevance to the thread. Have you tried reading the question?

Newstar actually asks more than one question. The last question asked is if the Wi-Fi can support 10 users with potentially multiple devices each.

While you provide some great info about some options available, neK attempts to answer the final question, which had not yet been answered.

neK correctly states that (at least for typical home Wi-Fi setups) you can have 254 users (IP addresses). One of these is used by the router, so 253 other users. Like neK said, the issue will be with bandwidth, not number of users in this case.


D.T., your option 2 covers Wi-Fi (and range issues) without clarifying the question of if the potential number of users can be supported, so I think it's reasonable for neK to answer this.

It may not be the best way to do it, but for someone who does not know a lot about networking, it's a good question.

To add to neK's answer, a typical home Wi-Fi router can connect to 253 other devices, but in the real world that won't be a usable experience. But say 30 users (10 people with three devices each) would be ok, albeit restricted by bandwidth, as covered by D.T. and neK and others.



I have a question in regards to this -

Has anyone had an extra phone line installed to a Granny Flat? If so, how much did it cost you?

 

[D.T.]

Id guess itd be $299, same as a house.

 

[newstar]

Wow, thanks everyone for the overwhelming replies and discussions. I didn't know networking can be so 'heated' topic.

Just a bit more info on my particular situation: the main house is currently using Optus Cable network. Also, the main house is now NBN network READY!

I understand I can pay $300 to setup a new phone line which enable the granny flat to setup a new ADSL network. My questions are now:

1. Since the main house is only running a Optus cable internet alone with no phone line activation, can I ask Optus (or maybe another service provider?) to setup a ADSL network for the granny flat? Can one address have both Cable network(main house) and ADSL network(granny flat) operated together?

2. Now that NBN is ready at the address. Will NBN makes it possible to have two separate NBN connections to the main house and granny flat? Or even one NBN, one cable?

thanks again.

 

[neK]

Has anyone had an extra phone line installed to a Granny Flat? If so, how much did it cost you?

Telstra will take the first opportunity to slug you $299. Done it 2 times now, been slugged the same fee each time.

As the house will have 2 pairs running into it (that black cable from the pit), the granny flat builder will usually run a conduit from the granny flat to house.

Not sure about other builders, but the builder I've used feeds a cat5e thru this conduit and leaves it hanging next to the gray Telstra box on the side of your house.

It is then up to you to call Telstra and arrange for a phone line to be installed. Assuming you only have one phone line connected to the exisitng house, the Telstra technician will then come out and connect the spare pair to the lead that is the granny flat telephone line. (now if u don't have an existing Telstra service I wish you all the best and may god grant you unlimited patience cos you're gonna need it).

To get a Telstra service to my own house Telstra made me crawl under my own house and pass it to them because according to regulations they aren't allowed to do this and my builder should have done this (my house is 110 years old).

Anyway, from experience you can get the tenant to connect the phone line and cover the costs. However have gone thru this recently I would rather connect it myself, pay Telstra $299 plus a further $100 early termination fee. The amount of backwards and forwards with Telstra, then having to arrange access etc was an absolute pain. Tenant wasn't happy about it and neither was I. It's hard enough coordinating your time with Telstra, add your tenant to the mix and it'll do your head in.

 

[neK]

Newstar, if you don't have an existing Telstra phone line it might prove difficult to get a phone line into a granny flat.

While in theory Telstra should come trench and lay a black cable. My experience has shown they will find every excuse under the sun not to do this work (according to another Telstra contractor I spoke with he said all jobs are paid the same irrespective if digging is required or not. The only reason the contractors get paid differently is dependent on who is ordering the service eg foxtel, Telstra, iinet etc).

If u get any tenants in just see if u can run Optus instead - avoid any services that require the Telstra twisted copper pair (eg tpg or iinet adsl). Optus go overhead and apparently less fussy than Telstra (I haven't had first hand experience so Im just passing on what I've heard).

Also your granny flat builder should also run some conduit from the granny flat to the existing house to make it easier to feed the cabling. This conduit should theoretically allow Telstra to run the NBn to the granny flat (or so I've been told by the builder).

 

[newstar]

Thanks very much for the insights Nex. I called Optus today asking if it's possible to setup an additional internet connection for the granny flat and they said no, Optus only can have one internet connection per one addresses. However, I was told by a granny flat builder today you need to tell service provider it's a new address - eg if house is no. 10, granny flat should be no.10a. Then they can get the ball rolling to setup a new phone line for you.

I will try calling Optus again to see if it's possible to setup a new cable internet account or even NBN under a new address for the granny flat eg. "House no" a. I prefer the cable system to ADSL as connection seems to be more stable. Correct me if I am wrong Nex?

 

[D.T.]

Adsl runs over copper so gets worse the longer the copper is aka distance from the exchange
Cable runs over coax so isn't bothered by distance much. It is bothered by congestion though aka if everyone in your suburb is using it.

If you run another phone line to '10a' be careful that the installer doesn't use one of the wires from the existing house as this will degrade performance of adsl. I've had Telstra do this, it's perfectly legal cuz the line can still make and receive calls

 

[BuildingBlocks]

Thanks very much for the insights Nex. I called Optus today asking if it's possible to setup an additional internet connection for the granny flat and they said no, Optus only can have one internet connection per one addresses. However, I was told by a granny flat builder today you need to tell service provider it's a new address - eg if house is no. 10, granny flat should be no.10a. Then they can get the ball rolling to setup a new phone line for you.

I will try calling Optus again to see if it's possible to setup a new cable internet account or even NBN under a new address for the granny flat eg. "House no" a. I prefer the cable system to ADSL as connection seems to be more stable. Correct me if I am wrong Nex?

I would have a phone line run instead of cable Internet.

That way when someone moves in it is up to them to choose who they want to use for Internet and set up their own account etc.

 

[neK]

If you run another phone line to '10a' be careful that the installer doesn't use one of the wires from the existing house as this will degrade performance of adsl. I've had Telstra do this, it's perfectly legal cuz the line can still make and receive calls

I was thinking this might be the case but was never sure. Cheers for confirming it.

I would have a phone line run instead of cable Internet.

That way when someone moves in it is up to them to choose who they want to use for Internet and set up their own account etc.

Agreed, but its not a deal breaker for most tenants if they can get optus or some other high speed broadband.

 

[neK]

Thanks very much for the insights Nex. I called Optus today asking if it's possible to setup an additional internet connection for the granny flat and they said no, Optus only can have one internet connection per one addresses. However, I was told by a granny flat builder today you need to tell service provider it's a new address - eg if house is no. 10, granny flat should be no.10a. Then they can get the ball rolling to setup a new phone line for you.

I will try calling Optus again to see if it's possible to setup a new cable internet account or even NBN under a new address for the granny flat eg. "House no" a. I prefer the cable system to ADSL as connection seems to be more stable. Correct me if I am wrong Nex?

Honestly whether you go cable or adsl - its an IP, so it shouldn't be your preference. You just need to make sure they can get one or the other.

If the tenant wants ADSL that uses telstra copper but you know you will have difficulty getting a phone line with telstra, then tell them to get Optus. Once the lease is signed I don't think they can break it because they don't want optus (provided optus can call install and provide them internet and phone line).