How to introduce dogs?

[investor2009]

I'm hoping someone can give me some pointers here. I'm normally very good with dogs and they love me. But we're moving to the country and there is a very large pig hunting type dog over the back who was barking aggresively at my kelpie/Doberman/Shepherd the other day and he is almost as high at the fence itself and could quite easily jump this boundary to get at my dog if he so wanted too or knew there was the possibility. He may not know or jump this, I don't know.

My dog did not show any type of fear while this was happening, she just continued to play with her stick.

SCENARIO. The giant dog (who is very scary) I am even afraid of going near it because if it attacked my dog I'd have to do something and the size is intimidating. Anyhow, this giant dog has a tiny jack russel friend who he protects and when the jack russel barks, giant dog comes along and does the same.

They don't care much about me but when they see my dog giant dog comes right over to the fence and barks with his tail high in the air, ears forward and full frontal view. As aggresive as dogs can get but at the same time I also see wonder in his eyes.

What would you do in this instance, let them get used to each other very slowly? Because my dog will not show any signs of aggression at all until totally intimidated and then she becomes a monster herself but only once things are out of hand in the first place.

 

[mary&mat]

From what you've said, the dog sounds 'dog aggressive' rather than 'human aggressive'?

Is he just doing the 'territory' thing when your dog comes over to the fence?

From your description, it sounds like the JRT is the dominant one not 'giant dog'?

Could you have a chat with this neighbour & find out a little bit more about the dogs?

What's the owner like? Sometimes that can give you an indication of the dogs' temperaments too.

A gal I work with moved in with her partner recently. Both had big dogs. They introduced them slowly in their new yard; both dogs on leash. They were a bit aggressive to each other initially but it took around 2 or 3 wks & after getting to know each other slowly, all was good.

Dogs can behave differently in different scenarios: when they're confined, when they're in their own yards, when they're in someone else's yard, when they feel threatened, scared or trapped, when they pick up on their owner's trepidation or fear.

'Giant dog' / dogs in general can often see beyond their yard as part of their territory. This may include the footpath, the road & even across to the other side of the street. These dogs may feel your dog is an intruder at this new place if previously there was no dog there. They may feel your dog is encroaching on part of the land that is 'theirs' .

Be careful (even if the slow introduction seems to be working). It may pay to introduce them in a controlled & neutral area where neither dog feels they have the upper hand or 'own' the area more than the other dog. Have an 'escape' plan ready if one dog becomes aggressive & you need to get yourself or one of the dogs outta there.

Maybe have them meet with haltys or muzzles on just to be sure?

All this would be easier with the owner's co-operation & blessing

Can you give a progress report on how it goes - I'm very interested as to what you do & what transpires. Thanks

 

[INVSTOR]

I'm no expert but maybe it's just a game? My big dog started acting that way after our neighbouring fences collapsed. While the fences were down, the dogs were friendly and would play together. When the fences were erected again she started carrying on like she wanted to attack. At the moment my little dog starts barking at other dogs, people. It's like she is showing off or trying to be tough in front of my big dog, who then joins in.

 

[vbplease]

Makes sense what M&M is saying - starting by introducing the two in a nuetral area with muzzles, maybe in slow steps without the muzzle, then closer to the house with the boundray fence.

I know my parents spaniel is usually very friendly off leash in public, but once the leash goes on he thinks that he is getting "backup" from the walker and gets very aggressive wanting to fight every other dog.. leashes aren't always a good thing.

I think it would be best getting advice from an expert - dog whisperer maybe? it could quickly go pear shape.

 

[mary&mat]

Have a look at their body language & vocalisations too:

are they play bowing when they're close together?
is the barking deep or extremely high pitched, aggressive, teeth-baring stuff or just a more neutral tone?
is the body rigid & preparing for action or is it more relaxed? (are they 'standing on their toes' leaning forward, making themselves appear bigger?
is the mouth relaxed or tense with curling lips?
is the tail relaxed & wagging or stiff & wagging?
are the ears back, close to the head (protecting them when about to fight) or are they alert & relaxed?

 

[mary&mat]

Makes sense what M&M is saying - starting by introducing the two in a nuetral area with muzzles, maybe in slow steps without the muzzle, then closer to the house with the boundray fence.

I know my parents spaniel is usually very friendly off leash in public, but once the leash goes on he thinks that he is getting "backup" from the walker and gets very aggressive wanting to fight every other dog.. leashes aren't always a good thing.

I think it would be best getting advice from an expert - dog whisperer maybe? it could quickly go pear shape.

True what vb says about the leash. They can sometimes make the dog feel trapped/restrained & thereby make it become defensive/aggressive.

But it does give you an element of control if you're not sure of the situation.

 

[investor2009]

Thanks for the overwhelming rapport of replies.

While the dogs were barking, the neighbours did not show themselves so either they weren't home, or don't care. Meanwhile I was gardening and had a leatherman in one hand and mattock in the other, and I was STILL afraid!

So I don't believe I'll get a chance to talk with that guy in time.

On the other hand the neighbour next door was out 10 minutes after this all happened and I had my dog safe in the car at that stage. I was filling in two holes under the fence where his two dogs had been in and a little aggesive toward mine once again a few weeks earlier but these ones are smaller and didn't worry me too much. He seemed a little sad I'd filled them in. First thing he asked was 'Do you have dogs?' He said because his two used to get in and play with the big dog that used to live there. I then asked about the dogs next door and he said they're fine, so I'm guessing his dogs are used to each other.

 

[investor2009]

Ok I'll answeR these q's one by one.

Have a look at their body language & vocalisations too:

are they play bowing when they're close together? 20 metres apart at closest, no mucking around. Little dog was plain acting tough and big one sticking up for him
is the barking deep or extremely high pitched, aggressive, teeth-baring stuff or just a more neutral tone? The big dog's bark was deep, no teeth, but also sounded wonderous. But still very protective.
is the body rigid & preparing for action or is it more relaxed? (are they 'standing on their toes' leaning forward, making themselves appear bigger? Standing rigid and tall
is the mouth relaxed or tense with curling lips?Tense
is the tail relaxed & wagging or stiff & wagging? High and not wagging
are the ears back, close to the head (protecting them when about to fight) or are they alert & relaxed? eARS ARE HIGH

 

[mary&mat]

Oh, ok.

It doesn't sound great, but it doesn't sound like the worst situation either.

Sounds like lil dog is the leader. (Little dogs can do a lot of damage; one attack with 2 terriers on another dog left an owner with about $8K vet bill!) Does the smaller dog take the lead when the dogs approach the fence? If so, he may be the dominant one.

Heh heh, so the 'wonderous' bark you mention may be curiosity from the bigger one? And wanting to communicate with your dog & you. Bark doesn't sound aggressive as such, but combined with the other body language, it's most likely telling you 'I'm here, I'm not frightened or out to get you, but just stay on your side of the fence & we'll be sweet. I need to suss you out some more'.

The tall & rigid stance is what they do when they want to appear dominant. They try to make themselves bigger to ward off the other dog/human so they don't need to fight. Most dogs don't wanna fight as much as we don't wanna fight. Like people shaping up with one another, the chest goes out, the head is held high etc. Intimidation with a view to resolving the power struggle without the need to fight.

Tense mouth not good. May be afraid of the new situation & unsure of your dog's standing: ie is he more dominant then me? do I have to back down, are we on level terms, can we play or is he going to dominate me when I don't want to be dominated by another dog. Tense mouth is ready for action; what that action is will be determined by events as they unfold. Don't approach as may be a fear-biter. They can show no real outward sighs of aggression & almost appear submissive, but can snap without warning.

Tail high & stiff, not so good either - stiff body parts mean ready for action/alert. (Loose, wagging tail is happy relaxed).

Depending what sort of breed it is, the ears may be stiff, sticking up ears anyway. If they're not flattened against the head, that's a good sign. Just sounds alert & attentive.

But you have to look at all factors combined together, you can't just interpret one factor in isolation & say a dog is aggressive/fearful/happy etc.

When they meet, one dog may try to lick around the other's mouth - the licker will be the more submissive one. One dog may roll over & expose its stomach to the other, again that will be the submissive one. Then again, if big dog & your dog start barking & playbowing to each other, they may consider themselves equals & have a rollicking good time of it. One dog may try to put his feet on the other's back or shoulders - again, a dominant move.

Sound like the lil one is more of a problem?

Watch the 2 other dogs together & see how they interact & you should be able to see who the dominant one is.

 

[investor2009]

Great advice!
I feel a bit better about the situation and will definitely keep you informed in the coming days and weeks.

Thanks.

 

[mary&mat]

Good luck!

Yes, please give an update as I obviously have an interest in dogs!

Thanks for sharing

 

[Ms Jade]

It sounds to me like the big dog is just doing its job & making out that it's protecting its territory from strangers. One of our neighbours dogs did that with our dogs continually after we moved in. He does it a lot less now that the neighbours have come over & brought the dogs. We do need them to meet a bit more, but I think the big barker also considers it a bit of a game. Our big dog loves to jump around at the fence with his tail up but it's just stimulation. They do not want to kill each other. And vbplease is correct; 99.9% of the time they want to kill each other even less when they're off lead (and not behind a fence!).

 

[Olly]

On BHG last week Dr Harry went to see a woman who had 2 dogs that barked incessantly at EVERY dog they saw when out on walks. When observed it became obvious that one started the barking and the other joined in so clearly one was the instigator and the other the follower.

On went the muzzle to the instigator and hey presto! no barking at all on their next walk. One didn't start it and the other didn't have anything to copy. If it's the little dog who barks first and the big dog takes over then the muzzle needs to go on the little dog so he doesn't start anything. This may be the solution to your problem but it will involve having a chat with the neighbour and asking would they try it while at the same time introducing your dog to theirs with the aim of getting them to all get along and be a bit quieter.

Maybe you could try befriending their dogs first so they might listen to you when you tell them to 'shutup' when they start barking.

Hopefully your neighbour will come to the party on trying something.

Good luck.

 

[investor2009]

UPDATE* Sorry it's been so long, time just got away I guess!
Well, one day about 2 weeks ago, giant dog was standing at the fence, barking a little and just standing tall with tail high in the air, no movement whatsoever. This was the moment I'd been waiting for, the stage was set and I was ready for anything.

My dog was walking toward it, and I knew I had to introduced them. My dog is very wise and approached really well. She walked slow and indirectly, zig-zagging around a bit and was showing that she meant only friendliness. She got slower as they got closer. Only a few metres before the fight could be seriously on, giant dog still in the same position showing no sign of friendliness, now face to face, giant dog poinces like a playful puppy and my dog being a loner and very mature simply loses interewst and walks away.

So there you go, the dog just has funny body language, although my good neighbour told me that one tried to attack his dogs the other week, but his dogs are jack russels and go in-to defense mode whenever they see another dog so it doesn't suprise me.