How uselessly pathetic was that budget?

[lizzie]

My youngest daughter is in private school where they were allowed to decide for themselves how to spend their stimulus allocation. They were able to bring forward a number of planned building projects by years because of the free money.

Mine were in public - and dictated to what the money had to be spent on, and who had to build it, and the cost was crazy. The private schools got 2-3 times as much "building" for their money than the public.

There was a different public school down the road, who's kids have been working out demountables since the Newcastle earthquake ... that would be nearly 25 years ago ... not one of those was replace with a classroom. Now the school is demanding they be replaced because they leak in the rain and are full of mould.

 

[wylie]

Mine were in public - and dictated to what the money had to be spent on, and who had to build it, and the cost was crazy. The private schools got 2-3 times as much "building" for their money than the public.

There was a different public school down the road, who's kids have been working out demountables since the Newcastle earthquake ... that would be nearly 25 years ago ... not one of those was replace with a classroom. Now the school is demanding they be replaced because they leak in the rain and are full of mould.

This is the annoying bit. The public school our kids went to has had demountable classrooms for a similar period, stinking hot in Summer, freezing in winter, but the money didn't go towards something less hot/cold/temporary.

I was told by a plumber who said he would do the job in a day, that the builder they "must" use took a week to replace the guttering on a toilet block. That seems to be why the money didn't go very far.

I heard figures like $800K for an open sided shade structure. That might be wrong, but those types of inflated figures were being reported. Heck, how many proper classrooms could have been built for that type of money?

I'm not sure why the schools seem to have to use one particular builder either? What is the tie up?

Who, apart from schools, would ever pay that type of money for such a building, when private contractors could do it for a fraction of the cost?

 

[Macca]

So Dazz, what would you have done to stimulate the economy during the gfc?

Serious question.

In NSW I would have paid all the overdue debts of most of the State Depts, this injects millions into economy spread throughout the state.

You may recall when Labor was running the state, hospitals in the country were borrowing medical supplies from the local vets to do operations. In some urgent cases surgeons and staff were buying the necessary medical needs from their own pockets to keep people alive.

Food suppliers were not being paid, in Dubbo the local butcher was owed so much he ran out of money, he had to suspend the construction of his house (from memory). The local milko was broke etc etc. Pretty sad when the state refuses to pay for products supplied to the local hospital

There are millions of dollars of repair work to be done on hospitals, schools, police stations, etc etc. By paying for these to be done most of the money stays local, most of the material used would be bought from local suppliers, as you know if $200k is injected into Dubbo it goes around and around multiplying the effect dramatically.

Many schools are in a run down state with poor plumbing in toilets, leaking roofs, mouldy walls, poor drainage etc etc

I think that if this had been done Australia would have got a Much bigger bang for its buck as the money would have been spread throughout the whole of of OZ.

Instead we have a selected few Labor crony companies from the cities being paid up to $850k to build a small tuckshop with no plumbing. This particular job was quoted at $200k by the biggest local builder in the area. All local trades, all local suppliers, instead most trades from out of town with a minimum of local input.

Just out of curiosity I wonder where the extra money ended up

 

[lizzie]

As yes - I clearly remember, not to long ago, petrol stations refusing to extend credit to the Ambulance service due to non-payment of massive overdue accounts.

So the Ambulances were being turned away when they needed to fill up. What a hash that state Labor government was!

Another example of what the Libs are trying to clean up ... State Rail. Currently has 4 times as many managers as any other comparable government department. Takes years to authorise a change in uniforms - 8 months to authorise the purchase of new brooms ... and yet, when the government wants to shed some of the workforce the unions threaten to strike.

Oh, and that toilet block in Newcastle - not $250,000, but just under $400,000 ...

 

[evand]

Wow! What is this? A whinge fest? Can someone say something positive for once please?

There is some ignorance on this forum. I have owned a business for years with a NSW govt contract, most of our work was in the schools.

There is a tender process to get on the contractor list and boy it is difficult. It doesnt matter whether its a Lib or Labor govt in power, the process is the same.

The reason you dont understand this stuff is because you (and Wylie & everyone carrying on like loonies here) are not in the building industry, were not involved in the tender process, dont know how the system works etc.

If you want to carry on like uninformed bogans flying off the handle with no inside knowledge of why things happen whatsoever and blaming everyone left, right and centre. Why don't you guys do some research and then come back and report on the reasons why.

In NSW I would have paid all the overdue debts of most of the State Depts, this injects millions into economy spread throughout the state.

You may recall when Labor was running the state, hospitals in the country were borrowing medical supplies from the local vets to do operations. In some urgent cases surgeons and staff were buying the necessary medical needs from their own pockets to keep people alive.

Food suppliers were not being paid, in Dubbo the local butcher was owed so much he ran out of money, he had to suspend the construction of his house (from memory). The local milko was broke etc etc. Pretty sad when the state refuses to pay for products supplied to the local hospital

There are millions of dollars of repair work to be done on hospitals, schools, police stations, etc etc. By paying for these to be done most of the money stays local, most of the material used would be bought from local suppliers, as you know if $200k is injected into Dubbo it goes around and around multiplying the effect dramatically.

Many schools are in a run down state with poor plumbing in toilets, leaking roofs, mouldy walls, poor drainage etc etc

I think that if this had been done Australia would have got a Much bigger bang for its buck as the money would have been spread throughout the whole of of OZ.

Instead we have a selected few Labor crony companies from the cities being paid up to $850k to build a small tuckshop with no plumbing. This particular job was quoted at $200k by the biggest local builder in the area. All local trades, all local suppliers, instead most trades from out of town with a minimum of local input.

Just out of curiosity I wonder where the extra money ended up

 

[Belbo]

Lizzie & Wylie,

Yes, the BER money could and should have been better spent.

But you're missing the point.

All that money still flooded into the economy at just the right moment to stop the GFC throwing Australia into recession!

Yes, some builders and tradies did make unfair profits out of public money, but there simply was no option to slow down to the usual bureaucratic crawl to police the spending better.

I urge you to listen to the interview with the then Treasury Secretary Ken Henry from last night's 7.30 Report on this.

 

[evand]

You can think that all you want. But the fact is Australia is in an amazingly good position economically compared to the rest of the world and a fantastic place to live (beside what the people are becoming like) . We have 5% unemployment, 5% interest rates, no austerity riots, dole bludgers with iphones....etc etc..

The things you whinge about is not an Australian thing, its a world wide problem. We have it so good here but still people feel the need to whinge, complain, whine about every little thing. We have become a nation of materialistic, spoilt, soft westerners who whinge and complain at the slightest things and never stop. Sad, very sad.

Can someone on this forum let us know how their cosy, soft lifestyle has been radically changed for the worse over the last say 5 years? I mean give us something to really have a whinge about.

And i dont mean 'i had to pull my daughter out of private school and put her into public school' 99% of the worlds population would love to be able to get the same standard of education as an Australia public school. Not to mention have anything close to the same standard of living.

What's going on with this country?

hit my hip pocket to that magnitude and what do you expect? the stupid thing is blind freddie can see where its headed - so the govt needs to claw back dollars to recover what it squandered on plasmas and luxury school gyms out the back of burke and my neighbours insulation that they had for 3 months, so they pull back on private health cover, so it is dropped en masse, so the public system groans under the pressure, so now they need a new solution. wonder what that could be?

 

[evand]

What! And become informed? Noooooo......

7.30 Report[/URL] on this.

If the population becomes informed there will be nothing to constantly whine about....cant have that old chap.

 

[Crabnet]

In NSW I would have paid all the overdue debts of most of the State Depts, this injects millions into economy spread throughout the state.

IIRC at the time the Federal coalition were pushing for tax cuts as a response to the GFC rather than targeted spending.

 

[Rixter]

This thread can go on & on back & forth until the cows come home..

The thing is, no one party's 'idea' is right or wrong. What ever idea a party comes up with it 'just is' an idea. Where the politics comes into play is when 'people' 'label it' right or wrong.

Thus where the word 'politics' come from........ 'Poly' meaning 'many' & 'Tic' meaning 'blood sucking parasitic creature.

Have a great day everyone.

 

[willair]

If the population becomes informed there will be nothing to constantly whine about....cant have that old chap.

If you think you got it hard i was down at musgrave park this morning having a look and nothing changed under Labor for them..

 

[Ideo]

I do a lot of work for coal mining companies and 2 separate state government agencies, plus a territory.

They all have identical payment processes and we get paid within that period.

Small time developers are the ones that don't pay on time.

 

[evand]

I give up because there is an endless list of things for people to complain about. They just go from one to the next....to the next....now its the aboriginal tent embassy. Its a perpetually moving parade.

If you think you got it hard i was down at musgrave park this morning having a look and nothing changed under Labor for them..

I saw some doleys down my shops yesterday, they were comparing features of their iphones.....maybe i could complain about my taxes paying for that. But what good would complaining do, beside making me feel more important...or heard...or validated...or something....i don't know....so i wont complain. Instead i will focus on everything that's good about this country of ours.

 

[Ideo]

How dare you even suggest such a thing.

I mean just because we have stability, a stronger economy than most developed countries. Good education and health, good weather and a myriad of other positives doesn't mean we can't whings like 5 year old spoilt brats.

 

[Indifference]

Lizzie, i know you're not dumb, therefore you should know why the handouts and pink batts were actioned fast straight after the GFC.

The reason is they had to stimulate the economy fast, short term, before recession took hold. And it worked a treat.

This had nothing to do with medium long term infrastructure spending. Which takes longer to show economic activity. And that is being played out now.

I juts don't understand why people keep going over the same stuff and have to be told over and over again.

What a load of crap.... If pink batts & handouts are the best the government can come up with to stimulate the economy, then they have no @#$% idea.... none. nadda. zip. This has nothing to do with party politics and everything to do with stupidity. Dumb decisions were made.... It just happened to be Labors turn this time, which is not an attack on the Labor party per se, but rather a comment about ridiculously stupid decisions.

I just don't understand why some people keep going over the same stuff and can't get it even when they are told, again & again....

 

[evand]

Is it just a Liberal, right wing, sense of entitlement thing?

How dare you even suggest such a thing.

I mean just because we have stability, a stronger economy than most developed countries. Good education and health, good weather and a myriad of other positives doesn't mean we can't whings like 5 year old spoilt brats.

 

[Ideo]

What a load of crap.... If pink batts & handouts are the best the government can come up with to stimulate the economy, then they have no @#$% idea.... none. nadda. zip. This has nothing to do with party politics and everything to do with stupidity. Dumb decisions were made.... It just happened to be Labors turn this time, which is not an attack on the Labor party per se, but rather a comment about ridiculously stupid decisions.

I just don't understand why some people keep going over the same stuff and can't get it even when they are told, again & again....

So, what is your suggestion then?

I hear a lot of moaning, but only one alternative.

 

[evand]

The concept was great. It was designed to stimulate the economy ASAP, before recession could set in. You know, the Keynesian 'spend your way out of trouble' philosophy'.

The execution of the concept left a bit to be desired. Maybe it was rushed due to the need to do something before the GFC fallout hit Australia. The greed of private operators was the problem. And they werent mnagaed or monitored closely enough.

With the lowering of interest rates, the bank guarantees, the $ handouts, it did do what it was supposed to do. And did it well.

If it was a Liberal govt. in power at the time i think we be in serious recession right now and then you guys have something to complain about.

What a load of crap.... If pink batts & handouts are the best the government can come up with to stimulate the economy, then they have no @#$% idea.... none. nadda. zip. This has nothing to do with party politics and everything to do with stupidity. Dumb decisions were made.... It just happened to be Labors turn this time, which is not an attack on the Labor party per se, but rather a comment about ridiculously stupid decisions.

I just don't understand why some people keep going over the same stuff and can't get it even when they are told, again & again....

 

[Indifference]

So, what is your suggestion then?

I hear a lot of moaning, but only one alternative.

I thought that was obvious.....

Alternative: stop heckling like parliamentarians and start commenting on the issues and decisions in a rational and educated manner.

Talk about the pros & cons of the budget not of Liberal vs Labor.

Example: "Around $5 billion cut from Defence, including deferral of the delivery of the first Joint Strike Fighter aircraft and scrapping of plans to equip the Army with new self-propelled artillery"

This issue in the budget has not been justified against the extant White Paper, which is the document that the deferred acquisitions were based upon. How the government will now empower the Defence Forces to meet their strategic obligations is now, in part, uncertain, particularly considering that Defence is already 2.5 years into a separate $20 Billion cutback over 10 years.

Considering these savings correlate to the cash splash which seems a vain attempt to buy votes, being doled out to the "working poor", it seems to lack long term vision. Perhaps the government could crackdown on living-away-from-home-allowance for executives which is estimated to save ~1 Billion and kerb there cash splash to make up the difference.

See, that wasn't so hard was it.....

 

[HotRod]

Or maybe the government could make social security an unattractive last resort, not the free-for-all cash giveaway it now appears. About 33% of each and everyone's tax is spent on untermenchen (look it up) which is a huge drain on the budget.

Instead of dolling out cash that is then spent on everything from booze, fags, pay tv and plasmas and they then complain they need more, convert all these cash handouts to vouchers, only redemable for the bare requirements to sustain themselves (rent, food, utilities).

They should be given priority for state housing/NRAS etc.

There needs to be a disincentive to being on social security.

The same for family tax etc. There needs to be a disincentive to being on it, not an expectation that every family cries poor because they can't afford any food and they have to go to the Salvos because they send their kids off to expensive schools and they need to save for the OS holiday because they deserve it.