I need a land tax lawyer (nsw)

[gjc]

Hi everyone! We cannot afford to pay our $100,000 plus NSW land Tax bill this year. The bill includes assessments for this year plus a backlog from the previous year. We are "mum and dad" property investors who have been living on 1) Rentals 2) refinance using equity and 3) selling an IP or 2 every year. We have been struggling for a couple of years now because whilst our rental income has been steady, refinancing has become difficult and our IPs have not been selling. With interest rates dropping we can still service our loans but the land Tax burden is what we cant cope with. Like many "mum and dad" investors, we are asset rich but income poor.

There are a few discrepancies with our valuations. The valuer generals system of averaging values over 3 years is unfair as land values have dropped at a higher rate in the last 12 months. As values are generally based on supply and demand, demand has dropped considerably in the last 12 months. This is evidenced by the fact that we have had several properties on the market for over 12 months through agents, at what we thought were realistic prices but there have been no interest at any price.

We have querried some of our land valuations in previous years by objecting but to no avail. It seems to us that the Valuer general's office just replies with a standard letter confirming that their values are correct.

We need a land tax lawyer who can advise us how to deal with the Valuer Genaral's valuations and also how to stop OSR from using their draconian tactics such as demanding that managing agents submit all rentals directly to them as they have done in the past; or demanding that our Bank remits all our deposits directly to them.

Can anyone recommend a NSW Land Tax lawyer? Thanks

 

[pulse]

The valuer generals system of averaging values over 3 years is unfair

I can sympathise with you but averaging is not unfair it is done to reduce the effect of large increases in land value, so hence it also reduces the effect of falls also.

No one here likes land tax but is part of the price of doing business. It can be minimised by buying properties is rural areas with lower land values or buying interstate.

I don't think a lawyer will make a big difference. Any difference will be soaked up by fees.

I'd pay what you owe and restructure for the future.

Cheers
Pulse

 

[Player]

Hi gjc,

I don't envy your position. This wealth impost was originally created to deter land lords/land owners from land banking so that well located land in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries was released to enable communities and cities to grow at a sustained and affordable rate.

Now in the twenty first century.......the more the merrier and not in a linear fashion. Increments are exponential, once the first couple of threshold values are surpassed......ooohhhh.....don't get me started about SRO's and the process they apply to valuations

I can't personally vouch for any recommended lawyers in Sydney to help with your plight. However you will need a decent property and taxation lawyer.

A quick google search and navigating their sites returned the following that may be a good place to start:

http://www.laclawyers.com.au/legal/Conveyancing-[and]-Property-Law.aspx

http://www.whitebarnes.com.au/

I now diversify the entities purchasing from personal to SMSF to trusts to a couple interstate also. Spread the liability for this impost around. Land tax is a cost of doing business and I'm not against paying a fair rate on a single holdings basis. I do object to the cumulative impost that rises on an exponential basis just because a person owns several in the same state.

Another argument for commercial/industrial holdings with strong landlord favourable leases.

Good luck with your efforts to remedy your situation and attain more reasonable valuations.

Although on a different echelon, I read recently that the owners of Pacific Fair shopping centre at Broadbeach succeeded in having valuations significantly amended to the down side although it required courts and $$$$$ from memory.

Hopefully, some other Sydney forumites can recommend someone who may be suited to helping you.

The links above may be one place to start. Keep us posted with how you go in getting valuations amended.

Good Luck

 

[listohan]

Arbitrary valuations

It's not the only averaging that the problem, it is the arbitrary nature of valuations themselves. I have a 158m2 block with no views which has consistently valued at 50% above the median for the relevant of local government area. At the last valuation, this discrepancy increased yet further despite an allegedly falling market.

The valuation discloses the median over time for blocks of land in the LGA. But I would be very interested to see the figures based on $ per square metres. At the moment this land is now "valued" at $4000 per square metre. This is a figure I find very hard to justify but would be glad of an opportunity to compare it with others.

 

[missy]

land tax

Did you find agood land tax lawyer as we desperately need one Would you kindly email me azure 525 @hotmail thanks moni:

 

[Xterminator]

Hi GJC,

I really feel for you. I had a call at 9.00 this morning me informing me that I too in effect owed $70K including compound interest at 15.85% over 4 years due to the fact that the "default setting" for a family trust with a corporate trustee is to tax at the rate of an "exempt corporation" which is minimal if not nil.

Apparently we should have recieved a letter asking us if all was correct, and then were invoiced for a small land tax bill. I can honestly say we didnt receive this letter - ever.

The issue was exerbated by the fact that although the trust contains other property in other states, and the first NSW property was a Wrap set up by one of John Burleys best Australian Wrappers (I wont disclose this here) but unfortunately the first property registered and settled had our managing agents address, which OSR used, not the address of the trust.

The bottom line is because this property was done on an installment contract basis (thank God we didnt do a lease option) we were exempt on THIS property, and on one of two properties purchased since.

However we were told today by the Valuer Generals valuers office located in Bathurst and Sydney that about 50% of valuations were being processed at a lower rate upon objection given the softening market.

I was also told about a quoted article that say the VG does not consider CPI when revaluing properties.

So we are doing two things after discussing the matter with a state tax laywer:

We are writing a letter to the Valuer General along with supporting data from myrpdata.com.au to request a revaluation.

We are writing the commisioner of taxation regarding not having to pay the interest since we simply didnt know we had a state tax liability since this morning and what is more 4 YEARS have gone by without a call from the OSR.

I was talking with a friend of mine who is a Qld police officer. He was telling me about the suicide rate in SE Qld from people who have lost their jobs whilst having liabilities.

To quote my own letter to the VG:

"Also you will note that unlike the Goverment setting its own monopolistic approach to "setting its own prices" the actual employment and income market has certainly not reflected these figures. Otherwise we will all need to work for the Goverment to pay our bills, as the free market certainly hasnt kept up over the same period."

My advice, if you must sue, get a no win no fee deal with your lawyer, but write a letter to the VG first.

Also take it as an expensive lesson that NSW is not the place to invest in premium property, the Govt is unstable, dishonest and inept, and has been for a long time. Do you remember the day that Bob Car introduced "Vendor Duty" (incidentally it cost the state more in administration than it made them and people moved their holding to other states.) For God's sake the current premier is an ex garbage collector...(relevance is there even though the previous admin was corrupt as well).

Go to Qld, WA, SA, Vic but DONT bother with premium real estate (ie not regional country areas) in NSW EVER AGAIN.

Vote with your money and leave this state with your investments as the overall cost of doing business will leave you broke.

Be careful in TAS where the legals will cost you up to 10 times those in QLD and to really put it in context just be glad you are not a pilot flying at night having an engine failure on a single engine aircraft.....

You are still alive....

 

[thedoulos]

Land tax lawyer - challenging land and environment court

I know I'm opening up a old post, but has anyone here challenged the land and environment court regarding land tax?

I was reading some very old articles (all I can find) of people who challenged and were successful:

http://smh.domain.com.au/real-estat...n-system-comes-under-fire-20120327-1vwnk.html


Was wanting to know if there is any land tax lawyer recommendations (more urgently)?

 

[Paul@PFI]

Hi GJC,

I really feel for you. I had a call at 9.00 this morning me informing me that I too in effect owed $70K including compound interest at 15.85% over 4 years due to the fact that the "default setting" for a family trust with a corporate trustee is to tax at the rate of an "exempt corporation" which is minimal if not nil.

Really ?? The law changed in 2005 so that a Trust is classified as a special trust and it has no access the a threshold (NSW). Landowners have been advised of this regularly since then and the amnesty long ended. Thereafter land tax info is very clear on this issue. The trust can be amended to correct this and OSR accept this BUT they wont allow your to backdate the fix. Your trust use of multiple properties in multiple states will affect the ability to do this, however.

 

[Paul@PFI]

Hi everyone! We cannot afford to pay our $100,000 plus NSW land Tax bill this year. The bill includes assessments for this year plus a backlog from the previous year. We are "mum and dad" property investors who have been living on 1) Rentals 2) refinance using equity and 3) selling an IP or 2 every year. We have been struggling for a couple of years now because whilst our rental income has been steady, refinancing has become difficult and our IPs have not been selling. With interest rates dropping we can still service our loans but the land Tax burden is what we cant cope with. Like many "mum and dad" investors, we are asset rich but income poor.

There are a few discrepancies with our valuations. The valuer generals system of averaging values over 3 years is unfair as land values have dropped at a higher rate in the last 12 months. As values are generally based on supply and demand, demand has dropped considerably in the last 12 months. This is evidenced by the fact that we have had several properties on the market for over 12 months through agents, at what we thought were realistic prices but there have been no interest at any price.

We have querried some of our land valuations in previous years by objecting but to no avail. It seems to us that the Valuer general's office just replies with a standard letter confirming that their values are correct.

We need a land tax lawyer who can advise us how to deal with the Valuer Genaral's valuations and also how to stop OSR from using their draconian tactics such as demanding that managing agents submit all rentals directly to them as they have done in the past; or demanding that our Bank remits all our deposits directly to them.

Can anyone recommend a NSW Land Tax lawyer? Thanks

Valuations can be challenged but its a poor argument to say its unfair - every year. The smoothing avoids single year changes. Nobody said it had to be fair. The law just mandates how it is measured and calculated. My objections have always been based upon how the value was determined. ie : landlocked land on a small narrow lot may be incapable of use to same extent as a street front with width. Shadowing may also influence value if it limits land use. VG and its agents (private contractors) use a standard m2 rate and often try to allow for issues. They don't always get it right.

I would argue a land valuer who is familiar with VG processes would be a better spend that a solicitor. They will know how to influence the objection facts and give professional sign off to a proposed value too.

One innovative objection was land in city that was argued was valueless. Only the area above the land was capable of use. It was a heritage protected landmark on the land that cannot be excavated, built upon etc. The landowner has a impaired asset that exists above the land and in the airspace. He cant even knock it down. VG agreed it was a unique case.

I know some Barristers who are good at this stuff but cant recommend a solicitor who is specialist at this sorry. Try a good valuer first.

Once OSR take a charge and garnishee proceeds your course has been run.

 

[Scott No Mates]

My heart bleeds for the op. To have accumulated a $100k land tax liability they would have been holding about $3.5m ucv land. How could you not know of any liability for land tax? Sack your advisors.

In the case of real hardship, arrangements can be made to delay payment until the properties are sold.

What would these properties be worth today considering the surge in nsw property prices over the last 3 years?