I'm horrified...

Monopoly,

This post by alexee, and the one preceding it - says it all.

We all have different morals and most of the time our opinions are based on what we have learnt.

It's not for me, personally. But that is just my opinion.:rolleyes:

Regards JO
That it does Josko.:)
 
There's a fine line between ethical and legal.
Banks lend money to pensioners and capitalise interest.
Nursing homes dont give very good deals either.
I too think I'm a pretty hard negotiator, but the "sucker deal" does'nt interest me one bit.
By that I mean taking it upon myself to find a sucker to convince to go for a really lopsided deal in my favour. And not do it in an open market.
I see this even differently than those letters in the mail offering $1.2 for share (clearly stated) as trading on the open market for $3.15 as they clearly state what the open market value is.
In an open market like equities though most people have no issues in buying shares due to others margin calls & bankruptcy. But at least the process is at least transparent and anyone can offer a higher price. The market anonymity also helps out the "do no evil" souls even though they're transacting with people who lost 20 yrs of pension funds.
Coming to legalities though, obvious sucker contracts can be overturned in Australia.
 
I'm sorry people but how can you blur the reality of what is going on...

We are not talking about a grey area here, this is absolutely disgraceful.

There is a big massive huge thick black line between buying something for a good price and targetting old people who are about to die and ripping them off.

Anyone that can't see that needs to have a little think
 
At the end of the day i would never do it but I agree with Alex Lee. The bottom line is this - if these deals happen - they wont happen for too long. There will be a public outcry and the laws will be changed.

BTW - Im not sure she deserved the attack from trogdor. None of those posts were too bad!
 
Gee Monopoly, I think you're being a bit harsh.

- Consider your moniker for a start......monopoly..... :)

- Reverse mortgages are being bandied about by all and sundry, as are deals where the owner can stay for little until they die. I thought this was quite common in Europe.

- As for adjusting the price you'll pay for the house of an elderly person, based on how long they might live.....life insurance, income protection insurance, health insurance.....they all engage in the same dispassionate morbid calculus. Lots of investors collect a nice dividend and capital gain from the public companies that engage in this stuff. And what's the chance a bank will treat a 72 year equally to a 35 year old, when they both want to borrow for a house.

- I was lucky I was with my mother several years ago when a very smooth guy from AMP came out to talk her into an annuity. When I worked out the cagr value of the principal put in, it was an outright rort......but how many people have shares in AMP and turn a blind eye to the ethics that reap their fat 5.3% dividend?

If anyone wants to take the moral high ground, there's ample opportunity at a nursing home within coo-ee of you. They're all understaffed and the residents understimulated.
 
There is a big massive huge thick black line between buying something for a good price and targetting old people who are about to die and ripping them off.
ripping off people is bad

but where's the ripoff in this particular situation?
it's not like they can take their house to the grave with them, and they get care for the rest of their lives (think aged care facility)

as far as I see it it's a win-win situation
 
None should be horrified, ignorance should preclude any such horror.

Sit in judgement, making assumptions on the character and condition of both the respondent to offers made in good faith, and the person making those offers, speaks only to your ethical state, not to Kathryn's or mine.
"all seniors are ignorant" "all investors who are different to me are criminal"
To assume that all potential sales of property are malignant based on your absolute lack of knowlege of conditions outside of Australia, is very poor. There is absolutely NO sponsored care

I have often stated in this and other forums, that there are only two types of people
  • Those of good intent who assume good intent in others
  • **expletive deleted** who assume because of their existance as **expletive deleted** that all others are **expletive deleted**.
It is easy to determine which of these groups posters to this thread belong

We are offing the same, except in detail, for $130K 30K 15K homes, how long to expend $15K at 7K/year to heat, 2K in taxes, snowplowing, lawn mowing,
repairs to bring the property to our standard
repairs and maintenance last year was $34K, renovations the year previous $200K
last month the snowplow bill was $800, have any somersofters even seen a snowplow

Judgement by ignorance

"For considerations received and one dollar ($1.00) the property described as ........"
 
Last edited:
You're a good man James, and right of course. I never intended a public lynching but it seems I have instigated just that.

Please ask the mods to remove it, if you feel that is what has transpired.

Enough from me, I've said too much already (so it seems).

NO, I do not wish this thread to be removed.
I have done NOTHING wrong.

Yes, offering elders to stay in a house is -cf.
We are certainly not rich, but could manage a couple.


"Some of the properties that Kathryn looks at are very cheap and +cf. No further info was given re the 15 month deal as to the actual purchase price which obviously must be $6k with some sort of vendor finance." from HandyAndy

Yes we were offered this deal yesterday, and have agreed on the surface.
The young man wanted to sell his mobile and trusts ME.I tried to talk him into keeping it etc, but he has other plans.The actual purchase price is $15000.The same as when he listed (+ real estate commission)


PS..a lot can happen when you go to bed and sleep for a few hours :)
 
Y

Some of the properties that Kathryn looks at are very cheap and +cf. No further info was given re the 15 month deal as to the actual purchase price which obviously must be $6k with some sort of vendor finance.

If you want to do these deals go for it.

Cheers
the property is $15000 its a small relocatable home, $400 is how much per month it will cost us over the rent paid by the tenant untill the amount is paid
Kathryn also wrote in that post that we tried to talk Chjris OUT of selling it as there is income forever and it is CF+
Chris is one of those who sell their million dollar lottery win for 100 000 NOW

Judicious editing by the poster to try and promote their agenda, to my mind an **expletive deleted**
 
I'm sorry people but how can you blur the reality of what is going on...

We are not talking about a grey area here, this is absolutely disgraceful.

There is a big massive huge thick black line between buying something for a good price and targetting old people who are about to die and ripping them off.

Anyone that can't see that needs to have a little think
Would you prefer we watched them freeze to death in their home, and bought it from the public trustee afterwards?
or bought at a tax sale for 10% of its value
We are offing the same, except in detail, for $130K 30K 15K homes, how long to expend $15K at 7K/year to heat, 2K in taxes, snowplowing, lawn mowing,
repairs to bring the property to our standard
repairs and maintenance last year was $34K, renovations the year previous $200K
last month the snowplow bill was $800, have any somersofters even seen a snowplow

Judgement by ignorance
 
Last edited:
Judge not, lest ye be judged. You need to come down off your high horse Monopoly and throw that holier than thou attitude out with the rest of the garbage. What exactly was the point of posting this thread when you already made it clear how you felt in the one you linked to?
 
If the person selling their house receives $1 but has all their heating and property expenses paid by the purchaser, what happens if they need money for health care. They can no longer sell their house to fund a move to a nursing home.

Or is the system different over there to the system here?

If the elder gets to the point of requiring a nursing home, the government pays for it.(public not private care)You are not required in our province to sell your house to fund moving into a nursing home.(Used to, but was changed a few years ago)

A $130k is a nice basic home in our town.
Insurance, taxes, maintenace, heating (which is our biggest concern in Canada), electricity continue to rise every year.

After a few years we have paid full market price for this property.
Seniors wanting to remain in their homes, usually do it at a big discomfort and compromise to their health.Nursing homes are usually seen as a place to die, and which many senirs fear to go.
How many go willingly or trying to make their families happy.
 
I guess when read in context with great quotes such as these it all makes sense.... :eek:

http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showpost.php?p=626934&postcount=13

http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showpost.php?p=625045&postcount=24

http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showpost.php?p=565697&postcount=18

A paragon of virtue, sophisticated thinker, or open minded are things I'd suggest the original poster is not!!

Shouldnt be surprised.

1st link: Why waste good wine if I can improve it. Shows I'm not a snob and like wine only if it costs a lot. At the time, it was my fisrt time drinking each wine, and I didn"t know the difference in price until later.

2nd link: I should have mentioned we bought a 5 unit apartment building and gave it to him at cost.(his 1 bedroom unit).He was wasting money we gave him on take away food, and we are trying to prepare him for the near future.

3rd link: We don't have many private schools here, and I don't see why they would be better.
 
I guess when read in context with great quotes such as these it all makes sense.... :eek:
In relation to your links, really too insignificant to reply to, Kathryn likes to add pop to bitter wines,
we give our youngest son a grocery card, along with a house, which one day he will begin to pay for, he only eats supper with us in our house

In your state of residence the Highest ranked schools are public schools
University High and Melbourne High, and are merit based, you cant pay to get into them. Why private schools?

Edit:: Hi LadyLove
 
One would expect that someone who bases their position on their morality, to have apologised already for this thread.

We have been villified and defamed

We could respond in kind, but we do have higher standards
 
Last edited:
Judge not, lest ye be judged. You need to come down off your high horse Monopoly and throw that holier than thou attitude out with the rest of the garbage. What exactly was the point of posting this thread when you already made it clear how you felt in the one you linked to?
I make no apologies for creating the thread, nor linking to the posts in another. If that is being "holier than thou" so be it.

Perhaps (as James suggested) I should have PMed, but I was disappointed to read the comments made, and voiced it accordingly. It that warrants your judgement of me, then again, so be it.

This is a public forum, and if a poster doesn't want to be responded to publicly they shouldn't post comments that may generate public criticism.
 
Last edited:
As I understand it it can run for a long time (infinitum) so if the person lives for 20 years they will have paid the full $135k at no interest. In the mean time this is a -cf deal.
This is how I was thinking it would work too - so you have risk that an oldie will live 30 years and you pay them a lot more than the house is worth in bills, or they might only last 2 or 3 years.

The reality is why should they worry about their relatives and what they are left (lets not talk about vultures picking over the bones) through this process they are assured (or should be) that their house is warm water proof and won't get taken by the govn for non payment of taxes.
You'd be amazed at the vulture thing. An oldie gets declared incompetant - usually because of some dementing illness - and suddenly relatives they hadn't seen for decades come out of the woodwork to squabble over their assets, get the will declared invalid or rewritten etc. The person inside the oldie is gone now, there's no feelings for the person they missed, they are just there for money. Sad, but extremely common.
 
methinks monopoly bought too much personal emotion into this thread. is there something in the background that would cause such?

personally i have no problems with what kathyrn is doing - and it was very clear she was doing such in canada where the housing, aged care and health systems are very very different from australia. so, right from the start, i didn't judge her by australian standards like some others were doing.

as others have pointed out, she is providing a safe, secure and stress free environment for these people to live out their lives in the manner they choose to do so - and in the process she is taking an investment gamble that she will break even or come out in front.

okay - so there will be nothing left for the rele's to squabble over when they pass ... well ... if the rele's cared so much they should've been the ones to step forward and provide the care in the first place. but obviously they didn't because it would be a cost to them. i have seen many houses here in australia go to auction because the rele's are desparate for the money - but the house is in appalling condition with disgusting fixtures and no maintenance done for decades. to me, that is shameful.

something that i find even more shameful is those guilt ads on tv - pay for your funeral up front to you don't burden your family upon your death. disgusting. guilt elderly people into paying a small fortune for a potential fraction of the return. i would love to tell these elderly to put the same money in the bank each pension instead.

anyhow ... GO KATHRYN!!
 
methinks monopoly bought too much personal emotion into this thread. is there something in the background that would cause such?
Yes there is Lizzie, I see more homeless people, death and dying than I care to, many of whom are the victims of (what we have even in this country) reputable nursing homes.
 
Kathryn and almost Bob,


You both have my full support and encouragement. Keep going guys on your property investment journey, and please keep contributing to this forum.
 
Back
Top