I'm not sure who is living in my IP??

[Thomask]

Hi There,

Long time reader, first time poster

I self manage my 1 bedder IP, and I've come to believe that the tenants (a middle aged couple who were carrying out renovations) have moved out and that a different person is now in there, probabaly a relative.

Reasons for this are:

- Spoke to them recently and I had to jog their memory about who I was and the flat that they are 'living in'.

- A different car parked in car spot (from family wagon to Japanese sports car)

- Utility Bills in Letter box adressed to a person not on agreement.
(saw these when I dropped around rent increase letter today)

- Person in next flat said the couple doesnt live there any more.....

It has been in a periodic agreement since Sept last year.
The rent is always paid on time, but Im still concerned that someone unknown to me may be living in my investment.

I think that the tenant is in breach of their agreement by doing this...

Has anyone else ever come across this?

 

[depreciator]

Sounds like they're subletting.

When you say you 'self manage', do you have a lease that would state this is not permitted?

 

[Thomask]

Thanks for the reply depreciator

I used the NSW Dept of Fair Trading residential tenancy agreement.

'Section 21 - rights to assign or sublet' mentions

"a tenant may with the land lords prior permission assign the whole or part of the tenants interest under this agreement or sub-let the residential premises"

There wasnt any prior permission given....

Cheers, Tom

 

[depreciator]

Looks like they skipped the permission bit.

 

[Cdro]

Based on the clause in your original lease, if your tenants are subletting the property without your permission, then technically they are in breach of the agreement. Having said that, it sounds like there are no problems with rent being paid on time, the property is being kept in good order and you are still easily able to contract the people with whom you have the lease agreement.

So it sounds like the main problem is that you are not comfortable with subletting (understandable, since you do lose some control over what happens in your IP).

What is the outcome that you want? It sounds like it would be in your best interests to keep the current tenants, but maybe have a chat with the people who you initially signed the lease with, and let them know that you're not comfortable with them subletting without your permission, and let them know that you don't want it to happen again. That way you'd get to keep your current tenants (who sound ok) but retain some control next time around.

 

[Thomask]

I guess you are right Cdro,

My expectations of tenants being straighforward as I am may be misplaced.

Should I find the property isnt being well kept by them, would you think it might be grounds for eviction?

 

[Goofy]

you need to get the lease reassigned NOW!!

At the moment you have a lease (and presumably a bond) in Joe & Mary Smith's name and Jane Jones is living in the property.

A) this may void your landlord insurance if you have it
B) if the tenants stop paying rent and/or damage the property, you take them to the Tribunal and they say we havent lived in there for X months so we arent responsible, and therefore you lose X dollars and gain a whole lot of heartache!

Now in an ideal world the Tribunal would order in your favour with the subletting issue, however as any of you landlords would know, the tribunal very often sides in favour of the tenant even when you have a watertight case. I wouldnt be taking that risk if i was you.

You can start by being nice speaking to the current tenants and get them to transfer the lease to the Jane Jones. get Jane Jones to complete an application form so that you have all of her details and can check her out. If the tenants dont respond then you can serve a breach notice for subletting, if they dont remedy the breach then depending on the laws in your state you should be able to take the matter to tribunal to have them evicted.

 

[Ed Barton]

Hi There,

Long time reader, first time poster

I self manage my 1 bedder IP, and I've come to believe that the tenants (a middle aged couple who were carrying out renovations) have moved out and that a different person is now in there, probabaly a relative.

Reasons for this are:

- Spoke to them recently and I had to jog their memory about who I was and the flat that they are 'living in'.

- A different car parked in car spot (from family wagon to Japanese sports car)

- Utility Bills in Letter box adressed to a person not on agreement.
(saw these when I dropped around rent increase letter today)

- Person in next flat said the couple doesnt live there any more.....

It has been in a periodic agreement since Sept last year.
The rent is always paid on time, but Im still concerned that someone unknown to me may be living in my investment.

I think that the tenant is in breach of their agreement by doing this...

Has anyone else ever come across this?

you say the tenants are renovating, i presume that is their place they're renovating and they have rented your place while their renovations are being carried out. ?? so how long have they rented your place? probably long enough to complete their reno by the sounds of it.

are you renting for market rent?
are the official tenants making a profit by subletting because you have it under market rate?
or are they just ignorant of the rules and have passed the property onto a relative?

as others have said get the lease assigned to the new people, or add them to the lease so you have more people to go after. might be an op to up the rent too.

 

[lizzie]

i would definately go around and introduce myself to the person living in your property. "hello, i am the owner. who are you?"

and get them to sign a lease there and then if they want to stay!

- and - why are tenants renovating "your" property? it is of no financial benefit to themselves, and what is your recourse if they do a bodgey job?

 

[Thomask]

Thanks all, I appreciate your input...

 

[depreciator]

- and - why are tenants renovating "your" property? it is of no financial benefit to themselves, and what is your recourse if they do a bodgey job?

Lizzie, the tenants would have been renovating their PPOR. They were renting a place while they did the reno. Now that the reno is finished, they would have moved back home and probably let a relative take up the tenancy.

 

[lizzie]

oh - you are so logical

 

[skater]

Lizzie, the tenants would have been renovating their PPOR. They were renting a place while they did the reno. Now that the reno is finished, they would have moved back home and probably let a relative take up the tenancy.

Granted that is the logical thing to assume, however I have seen all sorts of weird and (not so) wonderful things. Thomas didn't really say whether it was his IP they were renovating or their own property.

Maybe Thomas let them rent it for well under market rates while they did some renovations for him (not something that I would do, but like I said, I've seen everything). The renovations are now complete and the tenants are subletting it for market rates and making a nice little profit for themselves.

In the first post, Thomas mentioned that he was self managing. It could be that he has not been a very diligent manager of his IP and this is why this has happened.

Regardless of how or why this has happened, it is imperitive that this situation get sorted ASAP. Trying to remove someone who is not on lease would not be a pleasant experience.

Best of luck with it. I've a feeling that you might need it.