Who get's to decide what lazy is?

The Boss.

Problem is, in this current employment environment we get to enjoy many written warnings, mediation and retraining, reinstatement after being sacked for being a waste of space and the merry-go-round starts all over again if you want to stay where you are and be a piece of wood.

Most bosses don't like to fire staff, but all bosses don't like to have to retain the dead wood either.

Being able to give people the sack without notice is a good motivator, but we don't have that in this country; maybe a reason why most large (manufacturing) organisations have left the building.

In California, you can be fired on the spot. Doesn't stop people from moving there to live and working there though.
 
haha he has pulled his finger out

funniest thing has happened.

he has pulled his finger out! and why... because he just found out the job that he is doing along with 2 others in the team will be shortly be advertised as permanent! All 3 are currently contract workers. lmao. Whats the bet he wins the job and then goes back to his old ways. haha it wouldnt surprise me if he won it lol. :D Nothing surprises me anymore
 
Spot on, every single person I've worked with that is super old (35+) is incompetent and slow at their job.

Hahaha. I'm 39. And completely smash these 25 year old pipsqueaks. Most couldn't wash behind their ears if you didn't tell them how. And there are 50 year olds I work with that can run rings around me like I'm standing still.

There are some areas that just take decades of experience to do well.
 
The Boss.

Problem is, in this current employment environment we get to enjoy many written warnings, mediation and retraining, reinstatement after being sacked for being a waste of space and the merry-go-round starts all over again if you want to stay where you are and be a piece of wood.

Most bosses don't like to fire staff, but all bosses don't like to have to retain the dead wood either.

Being able to give people the sack without notice is a good motivator, but we don't have that in this country; maybe a reason why most large (manufacturing) organisations have left the building.

In California, you can be fired on the spot. Doesn't stop people from moving there to live and working there though.

So, in Australia, what are the best and easiest ways for small business owners to remove people?
 
Where I work (major corporation), they just do restructure after restructure to remove whoever they want for any reason and pay them redundancy to remove them.

I was talking with a co-worker who was previously in charge of a large number of employees there. He wanted to sack one of them but was advised that it was their policy just to restructure them out instead.
 
Where I work (major corporation), they just do restructure after restructure to remove whoever they want for any reason and pay them redundancy to remove them.

I was talking with a co-worker who was previously in charge of a large number of employees there. He wanted to sack one of them but was advised that it was their policy just to restructure them out instead.

But in small business, with two employees you cannot do restructuring because this is the bare minimum of staff. You cannot sack one and call it redundancy because you have to immediately replace the staff member. The unfair dismissal laws are quite restrictive for small business requiring multiple warnings, meetings and provision of remediation. I just wonder whether any small business owners have honed staff removal and replacement to a fine art and could share their experience in this matter.
 
But in small business, with two employees you cannot do restructuring because this is the bare minimum of staff. You cannot sack one and call it redundancy because you have to immediately replace the staff member. The unfair dismissal laws are quite restrictive for small business requiring multiple warnings, meetings and provision of remediation. I just wonder whether any small business owners have honed staff removal and replacement to a fine art and could share their experience in this matter.

Generally, you have a probation period. If you have any concerns, its better to sack people during this period, where you dont have to go through all the stuffing around.
But if you havent done that, you need to give warnings, and time for the worker to rectify the situation. My understanding is that you can give a verbal warning first (make sure you write notes up on the meeting at the time, and have an "independent" person in the metng, if possible.) As part of these warnings, make sure you have outlined clear expectations of behaviours you expect them to change and within what time. then review those expectations with them at the end of that time period.
It does take time, but it forces you to think thru why you are getting rid of this person, and what sort of person with what skills you want to replace them with.
The length of the process depends on the time of job you want them to do. Less skilled means less time involved. In our situation, we had to allow time for them to make a change... it was about 3 months in total.
The hope is that at some stage, its better to leave a job at a time of your own choosing, rather than be sacked... and they resign. thats also what happened in the situations I've been involved in.
 
Spot on, every single person I've worked with that is super old (35+) is incompetent and slow at their job.


Makes me positively ancient at 60+.

Funny how the young 20-30 somethings come to ME for help with grammar and spelling, someone to review written tasks etc.

BTW, I also maintain all the databases and computer files simply because I am accurate and quick.

Must go and have a nanna nap.
Marg the slow super-old
 
Generally, you have a probation period. If you have any concerns, its better to sack people during this period, where you dont have to go through all the stuffing around.
But if you havent done that, you need to give warnings, and time for the worker to rectify the situation. My understanding is that you can give a verbal warning first (make sure you write notes up on the meeting at the time, and have an "independent" person in the metng, if possible.) As part of these warnings, make sure you have outlined clear expectations of behaviours you expect them to change and within what time. then review those expectations with them at the end of that time period.
It does take time, but it forces you to think thru why you are getting rid of this person, and what sort of person with what skills you want to replace them with.
The length of the process depends on the time of job you want them to do. Less skilled means less time involved. In our situation, we had to allow time for them to make a change... it was about 3 months in total.
The hope is that at some stage, its better to leave a job at a time of your own choosing, rather than be sacked... and they resign. thats also what happened in the situations I've been involved in.

As a small business owner, I have found this process quite crippling. I have two part time workers. They are average/competent but not outstanding. I tell them various things but often there is only temporary improvement. If the worker suddenly resigns, I am left in a lurch. The next person I hire could be even worse. If I have to keep giving warnings, it strains the working relationship. I wish the laws in this country would change allowing small business owners greater powers to sack without going through lengthy costly rigmaroles.
 
I think that no matter how much they change workplace laws here, you will never be able to sack someone for just being competent!
 
funniest thing has happened.

he has pulled his finger out! and why... because he just found out the job that he is doing along with 2 others in the team will be shortly be advertised as permanent! All 3 are currently contract workers. lmao. Whats the bet he wins the job and then goes back to his old ways. haha it wouldnt surprise me if he won it lol. :D Nothing surprises me anymore

What most of us dont realise is that Alex P Keaton is actually (in real true life)Joe Hockey....and that puts this entire thread into perspective.
 
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