I'm watching a business fail

Being Chinese and making bad coffee is very very subjective. You can be any race and make a bad coffee (or a great coffee). It comes down to a person's attributes - as long as a person is genuinely interested in making a great coffee and understand the importance of it as being a massive part of the success of a coffee shop, they will put the effort into learning.

Chinese people are not genetically designed to make bad coffee. ;)
 
It may be a generalisation, but I believe it's true.

Just last night I had a light meal with the wife at a cafe in a shopping centre, was owned and run by Chinese, although a well known franchise.
I told her, Chinese don't know how to make good coffee (meaning, a cafe in general), she was not really happy about it, as she is Chinese herself...
My food was not done as it should have been.
But I've seen it many times before, Chinese/Asian owners trying to run cafes and something is just not right, mostly the lack of personalitity and friendliness, which is a massive part of such a business.
Aaron. You're kidding yourself mate. So what do you think of posts like these?
 
Aaron. You're kidding yourself mate. So what do you think of posts like these?


forget about it, not worth the uphill battle when people have defened the use of language such as "you black ****" as not being racist in anwyway- I'm sady being all too serious, it was a real post by a real poster on this real forum.

this is where we are at
 
Aaron. You're kidding yourself mate. So what do you think of posts like these?

Sorry, I should clear this up.
My comments were based on personal experience here locally, in mainland China and Hong Kong, etc.
Coffee in China is especially bad, even from worldwide franchises.

Since I have not been to every single Chinese operated cafe, I should not put them all in the same category, sorry.
But, I can still say every one I've been to has been bad, of which there have been many.
Maybe I was just unlucky on the day?
 
I can't see a problem. Different races are different, and some races are better at some things than others. Eg: African are better runners as they have longer legs. Men and women are different too, their bodies are different and their brains work differently.

In my understanding, as soon as you mention someones race you are being racist. Racial desrimination is a different ball game. I'm sure there are chinese people who can make better coffee than some french people. If a coffee shop employs someone because they are french and doesn't employ someone because they are chinese then that is racial descrimination, the person should be employed on their ability to make coffee.

The laws are a fine line though. I'm sure that certain prejudices come in to play when short listing job applicants, but to legislate against that is going to far.
 
I remember a guy who bought one of the three milk bar/ takeaway food shops in a small town of 2000 people. He made it the best shop in no time and all and after 12 months or so sold it at a profit and moved on. The next owner was hopeless. Offering to microwave a pie for me one day (beacause he had sold all the hot one) he was complaining that you can never know how many pies to heat up and he didn't like to waste them. I don 't know if he worked out why his business never performed like the books suggested. I reckon that in this town it wouldn't matter which shop you bought as long as you were better than the other two. Goodwill is a load of **** IMO.

i know someone who bought a garage and turned in into a cafe near melbourne uni. Might have cost her 500K or more to set it up. She sold 5.2 million just recently.
 
I think it all boils down to perception especially in hospitality

if I walk into a Chinese restaurant, and everyone, chefs/wait staff/manager are all blond haired white people, my gut instinct is "oh uh, im going to get some non authentic dish", and I become a bit skeptical, is this racism, NO, Perception/perceived expertise plays a great role in an experience or an opinion.

if you read complaints of particular restaurant/cafe, its usually people that have had one bad aspect of the meal, so human nature is to go and actively find more problems. For example, people will say the service was crap, and the food was mediocre.
If the service had been good, then the food would have received no complants

As for the case in question, in my personal experience, oriental asians in general arent as good as customer service, whether it be greetings, a smile, willingness to help, thinking ahead, problem solving etc. etc. as white people. I think culture has a lot to do with it. so it may be more of a uphill battle for this guy.

lets hope he didn't pay too much for the business
 
I think it all boils down to perception especially in hospitality

if I walk into a Chinese restaurant, and everyone, chefs/wait staff/manager are all blond haired white people, my gut instinct is "oh uh, im going to get some non authentic dish", and I become a bit skeptical, is this racism, NO, Perception/perceived expertise plays a great role in an experience or an opinion.

if you read complaints of particular restaurant/cafe, its usually people that have had one bad aspect of the meal, so human nature is to go and actively find more problems. For example, people will say the service was crap, and the food was mediocre.
If the service had been good, then the food would have received no complants

As for the case in question, in my personal experience, oriental asians in general arent as good as customer service, whether it be greetings, a smile, willingness to help, thinking ahead, problem solving etc. etc. as white people. I think culture has a lot to do with it. so it may be more of a uphill battle for this guy.

lets hope he didn't pay too much for the business

Really ? You honestly see this & think is true ?

Seriously ?

I can think of lots of times when I 've had exemplary service or humble hospitality etc and there are things in common with the places if I think about it, but one thing for usre and certain, in my experience, is that ethnic background or race made no difference....

WOW
 
As for the case in question, in my personal experience, oriental asians in general arent as good as customer service, whether it be greetings, a smile, willingness to help, thinking ahead, problem solving etc. etc. as white people. I think culture has a lot to do with it. so it may be more of a uphill battle for this guy.

My experience with Asians and business in general (again, my experience and opinion) is that they tend more towards quantity rather than quality, more often than not.
They seem drop prices hoping to achieve more profit by getting more customers from lower prices and trying to do more turnover.
This is often where customer service falls short, because they are so busy working hard for small margins.
Rarely have I seen Asian businesses concentrate more on quality and keeping prices high, and working on becoming better at selling/marketing.
This comes down to culture again.
Of course this depends on the product being sold, but I'm referring more to the restaurant, consumables, etc markets here.
Asians love bargains and almost always shop on price alone.
This in turn affects the way Asian businesses have to structure their pricing.
They just cut each others throats in business if they are targetting the same type of customer.

My wife is Chinese, I'm half Chinese, my daughter is 3/4 Chinese....
I have no reason to put them down, but this is all from personal experience.
Of course, all other races are not perfect either and comes down to interpretation.
However, there are clear distinctions between how some races carry out business, and it mostly comes down to culture.
 
Really ? You honestly see this & think is true ?

Seriously ?

I can think of lots of times when I 've had exemplary service or humble hospitality etc and there are things in common with the places if I think about it, but one thing for usre and certain, in my experience, is that ethnic background or race made no difference....

WOW

absolutely, im the first person willing to give everyone a chance

but its what ive seen over the years,

hell id love to be able to walk into any place and get the same level of standard across the board, when the service is not up to scratch, there are a multitude combination of factors that can be attributed to it ranging from, management, rostering, experience, location, age, demographics, gender. and the list goes on

I have no reason to put them down, but this is all from personal experience.
Of course, all other races are not perfect either and comes down to interpretation.
However, there are clear distinctions between how some races carry out business, and it mostly comes down to culture.

absolutey, Spot on! If the formula works, then good for you, if it doesn't, then its time to change/move on.
 
absolutely, im the first person willing to give everyone a chance

but its what ive seen over the years,

hell id love to be able to walk into any place and get the same level of standard across the board, when the service is not up to scratch, there are a multitude combination of factors that can be attributed to it ranging from, management, rostering, experience, location, age, demographics, gender. and the list goes on



absolutey, Spot on! If the formula works, then good for you, if it doesn't, then its time to change/move on.

I think Ace in the Hole spelled it out with thype of businesses where this is seen.

I know when we went out with work to a Chinese restaurant in little Bourke street many years ago, the service was impeccable. One thing I thought about whilst eating my $9.50 bbq por, duck & rice for lunch the other day, was the obvious high amount of custmers who were worth more $ than the average person in Aust ( or at leat looked that way) Cause they actually know what they actually like, they dont hae to go looking for things to impress them !

On the other hand, i think it was Dazz who mentioned that the Gucci store in Perth prefers young asian sales reps cause they are the only ones who actually will give good enough service to make the sale on a $2500 handbag etc..

And of course, there's the asian people who work where we all do, everywhere, and fill the roles as well (or bad !) as the rest of us in terms of service.. :p
 
Being Chinese and making bad coffee is very very subjective. You can be any race and make a bad coffee (or a great coffee). It comes down to a person's attributes - as long as a person is genuinely interested in making a great coffee and understand the importance of it as being a massive part of the success of a coffee shop, they will put the effort into learning.

Chinese people are not genetically designed to make bad coffee. ;)

I've made some terrible coffees :D
Inexcusably crap coffee ! :eek:
 
I don't understand this coffee connoiseur thing.

It seems to be taking over from wine snobbery.

Too many intangibles and unmeasureables.

Like people who kid themselves that their stereo sounds better because they used a speaker cables with mystic qualities.

Although I do have a superstition myself - that anything served in cardboard, plastic or on disposable plates can't be any good.

But there is one thing I do notice (that's discernible and is sensual) and that's the way people in shops hand things to you.

The perfect handover is neither too fast nor too lingering. And cups and plates should be lowered with grace onto a table. Same with lifting them to take them away.

People from backgrounds whose women (in particular) are extremely fast and nimble sometimes do not break that speed when handing something over. Hence they're jerky and sudden when giving something to you or taking your money. Others are too slow. Disconcerting in both cases.

I don't know if this affects business, but I sometimes notice this more than the quality of drinks etc.
 
I don't understand this coffee connoiseur thing.

It seems to be taking over from wine snobbery.

Too many intangibles and unmeasureables.

Like people who kid themselves that their stereo sounds better because they used a speaker cables with mystic qualities.

Although I do have a superstition myself - that anything served in cardboard, plastic or on disposable plates can't be any good.

But there is one thing I do notice (that's discernible and is sensual) and that's the way people in shops hand things to you.

The perfect handover is neither too fast nor too lingering. And cups and plates should be lowered with grace onto a table. Same with lifting them to take them away.

People from backgrounds whose women (in particular) are extremely fast and nimble sometimes do not break that speed when handing something over. Hence they're jerky and sudden when giving something to you or taking your money. Others are too slow. Disconcerting in both cases.

I don't know if this affects business, but I sometimes notice this more than the quality of drinks etc.

I know exactly what you mean.

coffee is now in the same group as wine.

the people while being given a glass of $3 bottle of semillion sav blanc from adelaide and would crap on about how they can't drink anything but sauvignon from new zealand for under $20 per bottle are now moving onto coffee.

Interesting how you never hear people talking about the brewing temperature of tea, or the freshness of the teabag,brewing time, quality of the leaves

give it time
 
I think it all boils down to perception especially in hospitality

if I walk into a Chinese restaurant, and everyone, chefs/wait staff/manager are all blond haired white people, my gut instinct is "oh uh, im going to get some non authentic dish", and I become a bit skeptical, is this racism, NO, Perception/perceived expertise plays a great role in an experience or an opinion.

if you read complaints of particular restaurant/cafe, its usually people that have had one bad aspect of the meal, so human nature is to go and actively find more problems. For example, people will say the service was crap, and the food was mediocre.
If the service had been good, then the food would have received no complants

As for the case in question, in my personal experience, oriental asians in general arent as good as customer service, whether it be greetings, a smile, willingness to help, thinking ahead, problem solving etc. etc. as white people. I think culture has a lot to do with it. so it may be more of a uphill battle for this guy.

lets hope he didn't pay too much for the business

Yup some chinatown places have very super crap service.

But if you want great service - u gotto pay the price.. go to flower drum and yup service is super, nobu at crown.

end of the day you pay for what you get.
 
I don't understand this coffee connoiseur thing.

Me either ... that cup of coffee - half plunger syrup and half milk, reheated in the microwave - shared with a girlfriend in the sun on her back deck yesterday and a lovely laugh and chin wag was pretty darn excellent!

Maybe it was the location and company that made the coffee taste good. Methinks there might be too much projection of unhappiness onto the product rather than dealing with the person inside.
 
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