Inheriting tenant damage when purchasing tenanted property?

If I purchase a property that is currently leased privately with tenants on month-month agreement (contract expired), is a new condition report required upon title being transferred?

I would have thought a condition report was only required when moving into the property and moving out regardless of tenancy term?

Also if I am planning to renovate an IP after tenants move out, would damages noted on exit report be void if items are being replaced/repaired? eg. hole in kitchen cupboard (kitchen being replaced) or holes in doors and plaster etc. or can this still be claimed as it is outside of 'fair wear and tear' IMO.

In the process of trying to negotiate with stubborn tenant who feels leaving a property in an unlivable (definitely unrentable) condition is OK due to the fact I mentioned it was being renovated..
 
The obligation of the tenant to leave the property in the same condition that they found it (minus fair wear and tear) is unaffected by any plan to renovate after the tenant vacates. The landlord is still entitled to claim the tenant's bond if they leave the property in an unsatisfactory condition.

When the tenant vacates, the state of the property is compared against the condition report compiled when they entered. This report is conclusive evidence of the state of the property when they moved in: VCAT is bound by it.
 
Yes - what Kate said.

The inspection report that will be compared would be the one before tenants moved in.

You cannot do a move in inspection report mid tenancy.

If it ends up at tribunal -it will if tenant is stubborn, they are likely to overrule any logic if you mention that the property is being renovated.
 
I would be telling the tenant (in writing) that your renovation plans are shelved and you will be renting it again and expect it left in a condition ready for next tenant. Then, if they leave it in a bad way, you cannot have them tell the tribunal that they trashed the kitchen because you told them you would be ripping it out.
 
Yes - what Kate said.

The inspection report that will be compared would be the one before tenants moved in.

You cannot do a move in inspection report mid tenancy.

If it ends up at tribunal -it will if tenant is stubborn, they are likely to overrule any logic if you mention that the property is being renovated.

So basically if the matter goes to tribunal, they are likely to overrule the $400 I have requested out of bond due to damage purely because the property is being renovated?
 
I would be telling the tenant (in writing) that your renovation plans are shelved and you will be renting it again and expect it left in a condition ready for next tenant. Then, if they leave it in a bad way, you cannot have them tell the tribunal that they trashed the kitchen because you told them you would be ripping it out.

Unfortunately I began ripping the place apart as soon as tenant vacated as it was in a horrible state with dog hair everywhere, mould, holes in doors etc etc.

All damage was documented and images taken though. message from tenant below;

"Have received your report. Do not agree with some of it. Flyscreens original screens wear and tear hole in kitchen if you are using original report you will see that was done prior to us moving in swelling at door in laundry again wear and tear laundry door already broken as neville pointed out. Have spoken to tenancy board and under rental agreements upon purchasing the property which you purchased in that condition you should have also done your own condition report with us. The security door at front door we installed at our own cost so i shall send you the invoice for that or you can remove it and return it to us. And the part of not fit for re rental i have your mesages stating you had to move in under 1st home buyers and that you are going to fully renovate the place"

None of the damage tenant notes above was shown in original condition report (completed in 04' - long term tenants). I have only owned he property for under 12 months.
 
The vendor was meant to be the one to hold the tenants to their obligations before settlement.

Your right to get the tenants to fix "inherited" damage should have been enforced through the vendor before settlement.

Now you are going to have quite a few legal, evidentiary, and practical hurdles to get what you want.
 
The vendor was meant to be the one to hold the tenants to their obligations before settlement.

Your right to get the tenants to fix "inherited" damage should have been enforced through the vendor before settlement.

Now you are going to have quite a few legal, evidentiary, and practical hurdles to get what you want.

Only if the lease ended before or at settlement.
If the lease continued after settlement, the new owner handles the bond refund based on original inspection report.
 
Ten years tenant!

Any tribunal will rule that most if the things you have mentioned will be wear and tear if you are relying on a condition report from 2004.

After 10 years you would be expecting a full internal repaint at the very minimum at a cost if several thousand dollars.
Marg
 
Only my guess on what a tribunal will award. Happy to hear from experienced PMs. IMO the length of the tenancy makes any claims by you doubtful/diminished.

Flyscreens original screens wear and tear hole in kitchen if you are using original report you will see that was done prior to us moving in
wear and tear.

swelling at door in laundry again wear and tear laundry door already broken as neville pointed out.
wear and tear.

Have spoken to tenancy board and under rental agreements upon purchasing the property which you purchased in that condition you should have also done your own condition report with us.
Not sure what the tenancy board is - probably the tenants union. I think they just made this up.

The security door at front door we installed at our own cost so i shall send you the invoice for that or you can remove it and return it to us.
Firstly I doubt they have the invoice. It's not your responsibility to remove and return. It's their responsibility to remove and make good.

And the part of not fit for re rental i have your mesages stating you had to move in under 1st home buyers and that you are going to fully renovate the place"
The fact you've told them you are going to reno will probably go against you at tribunal.

I doubt you'll get half the amount you are claiming.
 
Only if the lease ended before or at settlement.
If the lease continued after settlement, the new owner handles the bond refund based on original inspection report.

Lease had expired prior to settlement and bond was transferred from previous vendor to myself. Agreement was made with tenant to stay on month-month terms as I planned to move into the property within 12 months after ownership.

Unsure if its worth fighting for the $400 I'm requesting (which I feel is more than reasonable) even though the visible damages outside of fair wear and tear well exceed $1000.
 
The obligation of the tenant to leave the property in the same condition that they found it (minus fair wear and tear) is unaffected by any plan to renovate after the tenant vacates.
It may be due to differences between VCAT and QCAT, but I've certainly seen instances where QCAT reduced an owner's entitlement to damages on the basis that they were renovating anyway. The landlord provided a quote for repair rather than an invoice, and when asked for the invoice, admitted they'd thrown the damaged item away because they'd be renovating. The QCAT member found there were no damages.
The vendor was meant to be the one to hold the tenants to their obligations before settlement.
Kate seems to think otherwise. Is that due to the Property Law Act 1958 s 141, Kate? (Or some other provision? The terminology's confusing me; I haven't done property law yet. :))
 
Only if you're a purchaser that is happy to let your legal rights slide by.

If you are talking about a vendor making good any agreed to damage then yes they can be held responsible.

If you are talking about making a claim from a bond then you need to wait till the end of the lease. In this case I'm reading that the lease continued on a periodic basis.

How can you make a claim against a bond if a tenant is still living in there?
 
If you are taking it to tribunal ensure you have:
A clear initial inspection report (the 2004 date will be screaming out wear and tear)
Pictures of all damage in an exit report
Invoices against damage

Do not confuse it with anything else - keep renos out of it
 
If you are talking about a vendor making good any agreed to damage then yes they can be held responsible.

If you are talking about making a claim from a bond then you need to wait till the end of the lease. In this case I'm reading that the lease continued on a periodic basis.

How can you make a claim against a bond if a tenant is still living in there?
I believe thatbum's point is that when you buy a property, you buy it "as is", and dan_89 should have allowed for the present condition of the property in his offer.

Whether he can claim anything against the tenant later is an entirely separate issue; thatbum has pointed out before his view that, contrary to common assumption, under the common law, the rights and obligations of a landlord do not necessarily transfer to a purchaser with a change of title unless such rights are explicitly transferred. (I don't know enough to comment on that. I would have thought this had been an issue long enough that every state had laws like the one I cited earlier, stating that "when you sell a property with a tenant, the new owner has the same rights and obligations under the lease as the previous owner". But I say again, I dunno.)
 
Lease had expired prior to settlement and bond was transferred from previous vendor to myself. Agreement was made with tenant to stay on month-month terms as I planned to move into the property within 12 months after ownership.

Unsure if its worth fighting for the $400 I'm requesting (which I feel is more than reasonable) even though the visible damages outside of fair wear and tear well exceed $1000.

Are you therefore arguing that you want to keep $400 from their bond and they want it back in full?

If so, then I wouldn't both doing anything for the sake of $400, especially if you are renovating. Maybe ask them to leave the door (if you want it) and you will issue a full refund. If you do want the door, get their agreement in writing.

Ten years will go against you and honestly, after ten years with one tenant, I would be expecting a fair bit of wear and tear and "fixing", especially as you were not the owner and could not repair as necessary through that ten years.

I don't think $400 is worth this angst.
 
Is this property on Vic? Advice below is all on Vic...

If you're renovating the property, and there's damages (as you mentioned, kitche damages, but you're ripping it out), you won't get anything at VCAT.

Why? Because there's no "loss". The item has been thrown out as already planned and it's not costing you extra due to the damage.

Holes in the walls that need to be patched and the painter is charging more, yes, you can claim that.

10/11 yo flyscreens, no chance. Swelling of laundry door, sounds like water damage - probably would be classed as wear and tear at VCAT.

It is correct that the tenant should leave the property in a similar state at the end of their tenancy, however you're also not allowed to claim in excess of your loss - which is what VCAT is (meant) for.

Full renovations = no loss = no claim.

Also, get the tenants to come take their own door. If they installed it and they want it back, they can come and get it themselves! Oh, and make good the holes they made + painting.

There's also no obligation to do another condition report when purchasing the property.
 
Is this property on Vic? Advice below is all on Vic...

If you're renovating the property, and there's damages (as you mentioned, kitche damages, but you're ripping it out), you won't get anything at VCAT.

Why? Because there's no "loss". The item has been thrown out as already planned and it's not costing you extra due to the damage.

Holes in the walls that need to be patched and the painter is charging more, yes, you can claim that.

10/11 yo flyscreens, no chance. Swelling of laundry door, sounds like water damage - probably would be classed as wear and tear at VCAT.

It is correct that the tenant should leave the property in a similar state at the end of their tenancy, however you're also not allowed to claim in excess of your loss - which is what VCAT is (meant) for.

Full renovations = no loss = no claim.

Also, get the tenants to come take their own door. If they installed it and they want it back, they can come and get it themselves! Oh, and make good the holes they made + painting.

There's also no obligation to do another condition report when purchasing the property.

Well said Lil
 
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