Investing Blunders ?

In last 12 months bought first two properties as P&I and third I only (getting slightly smarter) but all cross collaterised. All of these are investment properties. Hit servicability wall with bank and no access to equity. :mad:

Now have set up trust and Co. (thanks Dale) and am refinancing all 3 loans and picking up house 4 (thanks Rolf) and perhaps doing some development :)

Total cost of this stuff up about $10K :eek:

Not too bad from approx 150K increase in equity (460-610) over the 12 months.

Looking forwrad to learning from all mistakes, mine and others.
 
I posted my story earlier in the thread,
So now I believe this is my worst lost opportunity.

About 4 yrs ago I was constructing a Roundabout in the tourist part of town approx 300m to the beach. On the corner was a residence with about 8 x 3 bedroom cabins and a pool, 5yr old at the most.

The owner was a lady about 40yr's old, and hubbie had done a runner back over seas with the young kids. She would come out for a chat each day and would say "if i could get 350k I would be out of here" she hated the place.

I would laugh because 350k 4yr ago was a lot.
Well she eventually sold, I do not know how much she got, but today, 4yrs on, the place next door has been offered 2.1 mil, and the block over the back fence has just been developed with 12 townhouses selling for 495k each and there is only 3 left.

By the way, this property is only 400 metres from the one I mentioned in my earlier post. :(


I now know why when I was a little boy grown ups would say
"I wish I was your age and know what I know now"

cheers
 
This is another "missed opportunity category" more so then a blunder.

Just before taking off from Brisbane to Townsville with a job promotion back in late 1989, I walked into a C'weath Bank branch in the Brisbane city and wanted to seek advise about whether to sell our PROR or what to do. Female bank officer said at the time, (details are a bit rusty now), said "sell PPOR and buy two houses in Townsville" - live in one and the other can be a "rental". Huh? a what?

Some how, a decision was made to sell our Brisbane PPOR. Things changed on arrival in a "hot" Townsville with four kids under seven. Built a new modern house with a pool and aircon (in four bedrooms) for $135k with another cheap govt. loan @ about 14%.

Moved back to Bris three years later and did the same all over again. My buy/sell costs for both ways were funded by employer which may have diverted my way of thinking about not holding on these properties. Had forgotten all about that term "rental" until 2001. I have missed opportunities over past ten years or so to build up a healthy portfolio of "rentals" by now.

In hindsight, I would have done the "Jan Somers movements". That is hold on to the Brisbane PPOR and rented it out etc. (I was only 12 mths away from a fully paying off the Brisbane PPOR in 1989! I think I now recall that "the fear factor" at the time with a govt. loan @ 13% and if we left the PPOR, then they would increase the rate to bigger 17% or something like that.). The rental income could have assisted with the Townsville PPOR and then would have kept that one when we moved back to Brisbane, where we would have purchased another and so on.

We could have ended up in a similar situation to Jan Somers has by now, if I had understood "investing" and among other things such as "taxation matters". I regret not taking the hint the "bank officer" had tried to explain to me back in 1989!

We live and learn.

Danny D.
 
see_change said:
Mine also fit in the missed opportunity catagory.

Starting with the PPOR . We didn't buy the Double waterfront block at Putney , on Sydney Harbour for 200K in MId 80's.... :mad: :rolleyes: :eek: :eek:

Second, I did listen to the Financial advisor in mid late 90's who said that we'd do better by paying off our PPOR before investing in other properties. Took me about two years to realise that if we'd kept on doing that we'd pay it off just in time to retire. Once we changed tack we had a mortgage free PPOR and numerous IP's within three years.

See change

I have a friend at Putney,isnt it on Parramatta River, not the Harbor?

Bloody financial planners/advisors!!, it seems they give worse financial advice then the dear old granny across the road from me.
 
I bought an IP (unit in Sydney) in the early 90s, this wasn't the dumb part btw. Back then I didn't understand IP investing at all, I had bought because I thought within a year or so I'd be moving into it as my PPOR (I was working interstate on secondment at the time).

Turns out I never did move back, and found myself buying a house in the late 90s. The dumb part was this, even though I had plenty of deposit for my new place, and even though the IP was costing me little or nothing out of pocket, I sold the IP to extract just $30k (and took a loss after costs in so doing) to increase my deposit. No surprise that since then the unit has more than doubled in value. :eek:
 
My biggest blunder was when I bought my first IP. A friend referred me to a financial advisor who seemed good at property. We had a few meetings and he seemed to know a lot more than me and have all the answers. I did not do any background check on him. On his recommendation, I ended up buying a IP in Brisbane. Later on, I found out that I paid 30k more than what it was worth.

The worst thing about the experience was that it turned me off completely from buying another IP for a long time. Instead on learning my lesson and moving on, I stayed away from property for too long.

Lesson learned: do your own independent research.
 
likewow said:
I have a friend at Putney,isnt it on Parramatta River, not the Harbor?

Bloody financial planners/advisors!!, it seems they give worse financial advice then the dear old granny across the road from me.

It has been my experience, and the sad experience of a few relatives as well, that the "advice" we were given from financial planners had cost us a lot of money or lost opportunity.

My impression is that many advise you to buy products that give them high commissions.

Has it been the experience of others as well?
 
House_Keeper said:
It has been my experience, and the sad experience of a few relatives as well, that the "advice" we were given from financial planners had cost us a lot of money or lost opportunity.

My impression is that many advise you to buy products that give them high commissions.

Has it been the experience of others as well?
We don't have a "biggest blunder averted" thread so I'll post here.

Before the golden days of RE (maybe 6 yrs ago) I went to a presentation by an "advisor" who was anti RE. Had a wonderful PowerPoint presentation (new and wonderous then) which "proved" two things:

1/ That the share market always out-performed RE.
2/ That we are all lemmings and would always buy/sell at the wrong time

ergo! Cash out any insurance, borrow against your house and leverage 60% into his index funds.

If it cost anything I would have said "best dollar ever spent" but it didn't and we got free pizza at the break. I missed half the first presentation so took my lady to the next and we both learned a hell of a lot. I learnt about leveraging income and she learnt enough to leave me do my own thing. A marrage born in heaven.
 
Financial Planner

House_Keeper said:
It has been my experience, and the sad experience of a few relatives as well, that the "advice" we were given from financial planners had cost us a lot of money or lost opportunity.

My impression is that many advise you to buy products that give them high commissions.

Has it been the experience of others as well?

Hi House_Keeper,

We do use a financial planner, and are pretty happy with them for our particular purpose. I tend to be the dreamer/optimist, my wife the cautious/pessimist, so we tend to use our planner as the sounding board for our ideas....

They also provided a couple of investment angles that we hadn't thought about either, so that gave us a few extra ideas as well (hadn't expected that).

To avoid commission driven advice, I generally recommend that any planner you take on is "fee for service" - i.e. paid by the hour to work on your particular requirements.


Cheers,

The Y-man
 
hi folk
have been a lurker for ~12 months now. Thommos thread pushed me to finally join the forum as with inc frequenting visits instead of a casual tourist I feel more like a peeping tom.

biggest ealiest investment blunder was thinking "investment" is for suits, the lucky gamblers and those born with a rare gene that forces them to buy financial papers and wake from sleep wiht a nervous tic.

second blunder was last year fresh back to OZ after an amazing time visiting 13 countries, recharging batterys, personal and professional too find myself in the middle of a massive housing/.get rich quick boom at a time of my life where it was dawning on me that I need to take steps to ensure I died in the nursing home of my choice. (working for the NHS makes you aware of your own mortality and the poverty in the underbelly of large cities).

flushed with enthusiasm and money (rule britannias sterling!) I was personal loan student loan and HECS free! sick of backpacking and wiht visions of hanging up the backpack and buying a dog and a picket fence. I put down an offer on a house 3 weeks after I got into the country.

THEN looked around to compare prises and realised what Id done and the premium that I was going to pay for this vastly overpriced house (due diligence? wots that?). luckily I was saved by my own innocence and the RE greed (yes of course I could offer more ifthe owners dont accept this offer.....thank you for suggesting that.....) and didnt commit financial suicide as they refused my first offer.

it sold for ~40K less in a boom market 4 months later

after that almost blunder I got a fright and decided to research. have numerous books , found the forum learnt HEAPS more than the books, decided to start small (ie learn to budget first )

18 months down the track I have a budget, dedicated savings program, tripled my deposit (thank you riches man in baylon)the glimmering of a long term strategy and am setting up a trust.

no doubt I will make more investing blunders and hit snags but they willl at least be the results of active effort as I learn and not blind inexperience blundering along hoping

thus ends my first post! mostly the search button has answered all my questions I wish I had more to contribute but Im new to the game as yet. thanks to the awesome contributers!
specially
AL beautiful elegant explanatory posts to learners in the archives
seech, Accey, L berhnam ocean view, always something to chew over
Pitt ST I know nothing of ecconomics, but you present your pionts really well
ditto accounting DaleGG

GeoffW re puns...didnt realise it was possible to groan and laugh at the same time

cheers
(signs off looking forward to developing a tic)
 
:D Yup Thommo! True!
very nearly sunk before I sailed out of the harbour. the "rational logical decision" 3 weeks after coming home to a land with decent sun to plonk the largest amount of money I have owned thus far on the first house I saw and have ever offered on was ridiculous.

funnily enough, at the time with the backpack in the corner and hiking boots finally taken off and cooling gently on the back step of the friends place I was crashing at and papers screaming buy buy buy , it made perfect sense. and my friends are all at the married-morgage-first-baby stage and they viewed it as a sign I was growing up. and were totally enthusiastic

interesting to read your partners provided the warning prior to the leap into investing disaster world.
I need to work on the investing base prior to the high flying stuff. I would be interested to hear as well as the blunders, what were the warning bells and why?why not they were heeded

mine was simple, previous transient life over reactionism (take it slower think of you circumstances) greed (the papers say its a sure thing to richesnad I get the FHOG!!)
and the feeling I should do SOMETHING with no clear goal in mind
cheers
Im off to night shift now......
:)
geoffW :) :D :D :D
 
Blooper to a success path.

From Acey's question;

it was a few short weeks after we had sold our only investment at the time a negatively geared unit in Sydneys west. This had paid out the last of our home loan which we owned after 12 years.

My wife was searching for a new IP now we had available funds. She yelled out "come quick" as she had found a 3 bedroom house for sale in Regents Park for $95k. I thought whats wrong with it for that price, termite ridden or no roof or what?.

On closer inspection it had an 07 prefix for contact details so it was a qld Regents Park that some dummy on a website had incorrectly listed as NSW.

We were so excited we booked a flight for me on Friday 18th Dec, got the last Avis car in Brizzy airport, drove out at 6pm to see the house and it was a dog. The agent was then going on holidays but he did refer me to another agent i met the next morning. I saw 3 houses in 40 degree heat, and the last one was picture perfect. Tiled living areas, new water heater, 12 month old kitchen that was spotless and it backed onto a park.

Being new at investing(apart from our off the plan neg geared unit in Blacktown) I negotiated from the asking price of $89,900 down to $84,500 and was very pleased. I then had this reduced to $83,200 due to there being a tree in the backyard with termites which prompted the immediate need for a termite barrier to go in which had never been done. This was at the start of the boom in Dec 2001, I bought 2 townhouse nearby in Jan 2002, a 4 bed house and a 3 bed unit in perth in August, and onward and upward.

DD1
 
This relates to PPOR rather than IP, but I learned a few things along the way.

* I built PPOR new, and trying to save costs opted to do things like painting and finishing off myself. Good intentions but four years later I still have some walls not painted, some doors with no handles etc!

* Again thinking I was saving initial costs, the builders quote did not include a driveway, sanding of timber floors, landscaping. Turns out these things cost a lot more than I realised!

* Last week I had the property valued, and the valuers comment about how I could achieve a higher valuation was "Finish the house and landscaping". Grin. The valuation probably came in $40K to $50K lower than anticipated.

Lessons learned?

* There can be high hidden costs in building new (and high stress too!)
* If I think I am short of money, I am even shorter on time!

Where too from here?

* Use a loan to finish the house off properly and landscape the yard.
* Have the property revalued to hopefully realise full potential equity sooner

Its still early days....
 
Compared to some of the other expirences I've just read above, mine is quite small even though it didn't seem that way at the time. Although I didn't lose that much, the lesson I learnt from it was invaluable. After getting all excited about a investment property book I just read a few years ago, as you do, I thought I'd go out and buy a property far from where I had any idea of about anything.

I searched via the internet and BAM out jumped the perfect one for me. Yahoo, everyone else that lives there must have missed this one because the pictures look so good, and the price woh. Anyway a few weeks down the track I get the pest, building and electrical inspection results. Building seems to be structually sound, there's a plus. Electrics for 3/4 of the place look normal, the other 1/4 done by the local footy team after a few to many beers, not good. All right that's one all, I'm not panicing that much. Pest inspection, "there doesn't seem to be any activity in the building that I can find". Well that instilled confidence in me of his ability to find his own butt. Doesn't seem, did that mean that he looked from the the front fence, or even the pubs beer garden accross the road, I don't know. I would have been much happy if he had said there was no evidence that my new purchase was the latest trendy restaurant for well heeled termites. I suppose it was that little added extra at the end of the inspection paperwork that caught my eye, "things you might want to look at". OK so what bolt of reality is he going to instill in me now."There is a large colony of Subterranean termites in the tree out the front" This tree I then find out is miles from the house at a distance of 3 meters. Upon some well intended study about Subterranean termites after the fact, I find out that any wood they have within 50 meters of their home, is considered as a free banquet.

OK not a problem, this is why I got these inspections done in the first place. Wait a minute what does that document say at the bottom? "If a response for objection is not received within 3 days, this contact will then be binding. I did not receive the paperwork until 2 days after the due by date.

After going back and forward with each others lawyers, I had to purchase or face a costly court process. Anyway it comes to settlement day and my lawyer receives a call from the other side, " we need an extension to the settlement". What the! Obviously we didn't give it and the contract was terminated. (No pun intended!) Turns out that their bank had sent the incorrect title to yippiterville and needed another day to get the correct one there. I was so lucky that I got out of it with a couple of grand lawyer fees.

Moral of the story, when you think you are protected by doing inspections, make sure they give you adequate time to respond.

Now I'm out of breath reliving that experience on paper!
 
Hi Everyone,

Which property investing disaster story should I write about. :D I think we have made every classic mistake in the book but have learnt from every single one of them.

The biggest cringe story would have to be the absolute water front block of land we had in Brisbane, just at the back of dream world. In 1998 we sold it for 110k. Why did we sell, because we were STUPID :mad: :mad: :mad:

I cant believe we did that. This is the first time I have ever spoken about it and the last.

Mrs Bird
 
Hi all,

I thought I would raise this topic again, as what is happening with the politicians in regard to Telstra is very relevant.
Whether they sell or place the shares in the future fund is the current thinking, with the not selling while the price is so low seeming to take preference. Yet the politicians know that future revenues and profits are likely to be lower than now.(and have known this for a while)
The current wisdom on the Telstra share price is that the dividend has been the only thing holding the share price up, and with going x-div today the price has fallen to a new low $3.50.

My opinion is that the polies are making a classic investment blunder in regards to Telstra, and have been doing so for several years.

Earlier in this thread Handy Andy stated....
Unrealised loss is on Telstra. Bought at about the $5.30 mark and since has been down to nearlt $4. So lost a $1.30. Doesn't sound much except purchased $750k of them.

Based on current price I am actually square due to dividends, not taking into account lost oppurtunity

I sincerely hope he corrected the mistake after noticing it was a mistake, as the share price was around the $4.60-80 level at the time.

bye
PS this is a very good thread for the newer members to read anyway.
 
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