Investing in Pymble NSW

Hi everyone

Just wondering what people think of Pymble in Sydney, NSW for units? I have been reading the threads about the north shore and was hoping someone could comment specifically on Pymble. I have been looking at deals like this one...

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=105833284&f=0&p=30&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=57290022&s=nsw&snf=ras&tm=1260858563

Is anyone familiar with this particular complex or have any opinions on its location, future prospects or attractiveness to tenants?

The area appears to tick all the boxes - Pymble Railway station is only about 600m away, plenty of main arterial roads in the area, buses virtually on the door stop, many good quality schools, major shopping centres a few kms away or about 3kms to Pymble Shopping Centre, plus a number of local employment opportunities.

Can anyone tell me what the capital growth forecasts are like for Pymble?

All feedback greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Angela :)
 
A great area...... for houses. There are too few units in these areas for any decent data. Growth prospects for houses would be different to units, IMHO.

Question is, who would buy or rent 2 bedders in Pymble? If I'm going to live in the suburb I would prefer a house. If I can't afford a house there, I would get a unit south of Chatswood instead. Much closer to the city and similar prices.
 
My understanding was that houses in this area are quite expensive and thus units offer an affordable alternative. Having looked at employment drivers this area also appeared to be nearby to some key employment precincts like the business area of North Ryde. There are also a number of hospitals nearby,as well as Macquarie Uni.

However, I am not based in NSW so further comments would be greatly appreciated. Does anyone have any reliable growth data?

Thanks
Angela :)
 
I can't speak for a Pymble investment specifically, but as part of the Ku-ring-gai area there is massive amount of new unit development in progress (State government overruling the Council and pushing through). The whole stretch along the highway and first block back is being flooded with 5 level unit blocks (at the expense of some old and beautiful homes). I've read that many units are sitting unsold and that there are many, many more in planning.

Have a look at http://notsohigh.org.au/

Nice area though, central, very good schools close the Macquarie Centre shops, Chatswood, M2 and city. But as previous poster said, it's the houses that are really good if you have a few million $ spare. Have a look at Telegraph Rd for some examples.
 
Just wondering what people think of Pymble in Sydney, NSW for units? I have been reading the threads about the north shore and was hoping someone could comment specifically on Pymble.

Angela,
Pymble is a lovely green leafy Upper North Shore area. Until recently it has not really had many units. It was mostly houses - and very expensive ones at that.

It has all the facilities that the other posters have mentioned - all good stuff. However, as twodogs said
....there is massive amount of new unit development in progress (State government overruling the Council and pushing through). The whole stretch along the highway and first block back is being flooded with 5 level unit blocks
I suspect that with this massive supply will come low/no capital growth for some time from these units. (I could be wrong).

If you look at the chart, you will see Pymble Unit CG off - by a lot :eek:
APM shows a fall of 12%, RP Data shows a fall of 6.4%. Whoever is right it does not matter - a fall is a fall and is especially significant when many parts of Sydney are showing GC of +10% or more for 2009.

As others have said, if it were me buying a unit for that money I'd be closer in to the CBD like Lane Cove or the other side of the harbour in the Inner West.

Can anyone tell me what the capital growth forecasts are like for Pymble?
Whose forecasts? The developers selling all those Pymble units? Forecasts are not worth a pinch of the proverbial IMO.
 

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Thanks everyone for the great replies. I have researched the area further and learnt some more about the local and state government approach to adding med-high density housing on/near the main arterial roads and nearby train lines. I guess the objections of locals to such development is not unexpected - I know I wouldn't like it if I was an OO in the area.

Some opinions I have canvassed (not from the REA) suggest that the current over supply of new apartments is slowly starting to dry up due to the banks not lending on new developments. Also that a similiar situation has occurred in other areas (eg. Hornsby/Waitara) and that once this supply was absorbed these areas became prosperous.

I'm not sure what to think, but as this IP would be more a long term purchase I have been looking at where the unit market in this area might be in the next few years. If the over supply does start to dry up wouldn't this help to reverse the negative CG and see a swing back towards positive capital growth. ie. If I get in now I can capitalise on this upswing in what appears to be a quality upmarket area?

On a side note can any Sydney-siders comment on what aspect is preferred in the area. eg. would north facing living/kitchen areas with south facing bedrooms be preferable over a predominantly south-west facing unit?

Also do unit dwellers place more emphasis on having a spacious kitchen with the laundry being the type that is in a cupboard OR a smaller more awkward kitchen but with a dedicated laundry room?

All comments greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Angela :)
 
Angela,

my post is more based on having grown up in the Pymble area. So my comments are more from the aspect of buying a principal place of residence. Am not sure what family composition your tenants would if the unit was an investment property.

it would be about a 1 km walk (or less) to Pymble shops. The fact that it is a fairly short walk to Pymble station is a real plus (as other ares such as St. Ives and West Pymble are mostly too far to walk to the station and without a car you need to rely on private bus services).

The units are at one of the highest points in Pymble so some will have good views towards the city.

You would walk past Pymble pub on the way back from the station...fairly quiet pub...used to have a good pool comp. Probably still does.

Easy walk for daughters to attend PLC. Private schools such as Knox, Barker, Abbotsleigh are a few stations away. Am not sure what high school kids would go to from here...either Turramurra High or St. Ives High.

Fairly quick trip to the northern beaches from here (as little as 25 minutes depending on traffic/time of day)...turn off Pacific highway into Telegraph Road, then on to Mona Vale Road.

Whilst its further out than Chatswood its more leafy and relaxed. Also its a fairly quick drive to Chatswood (or Hornsby) if you wanted to shop there

There would be some train noise as the railway line is close by however trains stop around midnight (I think). Unlike the main northern line into Sydney via Hornsby and Strathfield which is far busier and has freight trains as well.

If units or bedrooms faced direct west they could be hot (and glarey) in summer.

I'd also check to see how much noise finds its way back to the units from Pacific Highway (but I think they are set back a bit from here).


Ajax
 
Easy walk for daughters to attend PLC. Private schools such as Knox, Barker, Abbotsleigh are a few stations away. Am not sure what high school kids would go to from here...either Turramurra High or St. Ives High.

Good private and public schools + apartments = potential future demand from investors from HK / Singapore.
 
Good private and public schools + apartments = potential future demand from investors from HK / Singapore.

Good point. Chinese seem to like the leafy North Shore (and driving around it quite slowly in their Mercedes Benz'). Can't fault their taste for location (or cars). Most would make sure their children have the best education/tuition. I saw this when I lived in Hong Kong-kids attended school 6 days a week and quite a few had tuition after school.
 
Ajax thanks very much for the great overview of living in Pymble. Your post was very helpful. The comments both you and Garbage made were also interesting, as I have coincidentally heard that a reasonable proportion of potential purchasers have been of Asian background.

I am very happy with the area in terms of its upmarket reputation and quality of services. As I mentioned in an earlier post above, my main residual concern is whether the preceived over supply of units is starting to reverse thus hopefully resulting in a swing back towards positive capital growth in the coming few years. Can anyone comment any further on what they suspect CG figures will do in this area in the next say 2-3 years (and beyond)?

On a more practical note (and coming from someone who has only ever lived in houses), can anyone comment on:

...can any Sydney-siders comment on what aspect is preferred in the area. eg. would north facing living/kitchen areas with south facing bedrooms be preferable over a predominantly south-west facing unit [but with a nicer outlook]?

Also do unit dwellers place more emphasis on having a spacious kitchen with the laundry being the type that is in a cupboard OR a smaller more awkward kitchen but with a dedicated laundry room?

Thanks
Angela :)
 
Slightly off topic but noticed the other day the famous Tables restaurant
across the road from this new unit complex is now closed and up for lease.
Might be the economy or most likely had something to do with food poisoning causing death which was played out in the courts sometime ago.

Easy walk to the station one way but a bugger back up the hill and don't
forget the trucks also have to get up that hill so checkout the noise level.
 
Hi Angela, Just my opinion but if the south facing living areas have the city views you would get from there, then go for that as opposed to having city views from the bedrooms.

And I'd prefer a larger kitchen ......
 
I actually think Pymble is not a bad investment for units. I have taken the punt myself :D There is a lot of units being built on the upper North Shore especially along the Highway/ Rail line. Pymble is getting less units then the other centres. Gordon is getting alot, St Ives has had lots of building too. Although I think Turramurra shops is getting some pretty tall units. You can find all the details of the Zoning on the Ku-Ring-Gai council website.

As mentioned at the moment there is a glut of units due to the NSW Government planning changes which see the whole 25 year allocation of units for Ku-Ring-Gai built in around 5-10 years! I think they have built/ are building around 5000 units so far, this is out of a projected 18-20,000. Keeping in mind that the area had very few units before the recent expansion other than reasonable patches around the station in Rosevile and Lindfield.

However of interest is a recent SMH article that stated that they only plan on building up to around 10,000 units including the two large developments at UTS Lindfield and San Wahroonga. Whether you can believe the current NSW Government is another issue... However keep in mind that the member for this area is the NSW opposition and Liberal leader Barry O'Farrell. He knows residents are not happy with the number of units being built so with NSW Labor on the nose I think you will find after 2011 very few new unit blocks will be approved for the area.

As mentioned alot of unit buyers in this area are wealthy people of an asian background because of PLC. Others are downsizers from the area or professionals who work on the North Shore/ Macquarie or city who like the rail access and leafy, quiet surrounds. Have a look at how quickly the Meriton units built on the edge of PLC have been taken up. Mainly because its so close to the school.

I think the unit market is a bit slow right now but long term will be a good purchase. If you can snare a good price because of this and hold then you might do well. Rental income wont be as good as say North Sydney but as Sydney keeps growing it will all be relative.
 
Hi everyone

I really appreciate all the discussion on this thread. I think to sum it up from our position, our main reluctance with investing in this area was both the current over-supply of units and the lack of CG in the last 2-3 years. We do have concerns that this area may return very little CG for units until the supply and demand equation improves.

However, as some of the posts above attest, Pymble is appears to be a quality suburb that possesses a lot of the attributes of a good location for investment. i.e. great schools, shops, train station, buses, employment nearby, good income levels, etc...

We are canvassing some potential deals at present and if the right one comes along (ie. with a bit of a discount going in), then we will likely take the gamble.

Our hope is that the locals opposition to unit developments will eventually hit a political nerve (as suggested by Red Car) and result in much less development going forward thus helping supply and demand to even out. We also can't help wondering whether the current poor CG rates aren't a good thing - ie. the idea of buying in when a usually solid suburb is at or near bottom. Plus most long-term forecasts (I know they are unreliable) generally seem to indicate future CG of around 7.8% on average.

If the broader Sydney market does take off more aggressively I can only hope that Pymble responds in kind. I guess time will tell.

Angela :)
 
Whats the price of the 2 and 3 bedders? If you can get 5-6% NET yield, probably not a bad proposition at 80% LVR its really just opportunity cost of your 20%. Stick it in there for 10 years an see how you go. I wouldn't imagine new units in 10 years will be able to be built much cheaper in todays $.
 
Hey Angela,

You need to come see it for yourself. Its in between the highway and a very busy train line. Hence mid $600s for a new 3 bedder. Come closer to the Syd like Cammeray, Neutral Bay and you're looking at $850-$1M for similar outlook. Net yields are poor though. Great investment if your on higest MTR and can fellow tax payers subsidise through all the deductions. It is a no-brainer investment as it should rent well and you won't need to do anything to it due to the age. The levies will take care of it.

Good luck.
 
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