Investors Club

W

WebBoard

Guest
From: Anonymous


I just had to post this. It's from Saturday's Courier Mail.

It is stuff like this that brings a smile to my face :)

Sorry about the anonymity, but Kevin Young's track record suggests that this is the wise thing to do!

http://finance.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,3751608%255E14315,00.html


Property club faces probe by watchdog

By ANTHONY MARX and HEDLEY THOMAS
Courier-Mail
09feb02

THE founder and operator of a club which promises to make its members wealthy through repeated property deals is under scrutiny from the Office of Fair Trading.

Kevin Young runs one of Queensland's biggest property marketing firms under the banner of the Investors Club, which negotiated almost 900 sales nationwide for more than $150 million last year. About 60 per cent of the sales were concentrated in southeast Queensland.

At investment seminars across Australia Mr Young tells thousands of members of his "club" that he has enjoyed an outstanding business career and retired twice as a multi-millionaire.

He does not disclose that he was a bankrupt for five years until 1989 at the time he claims to have been retired and fabulously wealthy.

The Office of Fair Trading investigation is examining the club's operation and whether it complies with tough new anti-marketeering laws.

The club, which was launched in 1995, is based in Carina on Brisbane's southside. It has already been the subject of complaints from the real estate industry that its fees exceed legal limits.

The club was initially found not to be in breach of property laws last year, but Fair Trading Minister Merri Rose said this week that her office was closely monitoring its operations.

"Office of Fair Trading has now received additional information, which is currently being investigated," she said.

Fair Trading Commissioner Matt Miller said: "We need to have a very close look at the way they are operating. The whole of the club needs to be reviewed and whether they are complying with our legislation and disclosure laws."

Mr Miller said he refused a request by Mr Young in late November to endorse the club's operations.

The Real Estate Institute of Queensland has complained to the Office of Fair Trading that the club's fees are excessive. REIQ chief executive Don McKenzie said it appeared the club accepted fees "way in excess of the commission that real estate agents could receive" before a buyer had even been identified.

Mr Young, 55, does not hold a full REIQ licence.

He told The Courier-Mail his club was open, accountable and beneficial to members, who were growing rich through property acquisitions.

He said he personally owned more than 150 properties and was interested in buying more.

Mr Young downplayed his bankruptcy, calling it a misunderstanding that lasted only "a few minutes".

However, the official file held by the Insolvency and Trustee Service Australia shows it lasted five years and he was almost prosecuted for deceptive, argumentative and unco-operative conduct.

The petitioning creditors, retired Sunshine Coast motel operators Alton and Lorraine Kempster, said they had been duped by Mr Young.

"You've got to be kidding," said Mrs Kempster when asked if she would follow investment advice or buy a $200,000 property from him.

Mr Young's club generates huge revenues that go into Lisson Pty Ltd, controlled by him and his wife Kathy.

The bulk of the profits are made by charging developers and other sellers a marketing fee of 6 per cent of the sale price, usually between $11,000 and $15,000 per property.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Reply: 1
From: J Parker


Articles like this remind me why, when it comes to buying property, I like to be in control. At least I have no-one to blame but myself when things go wrong.
Cheers, Jacque :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Reply: 1.1
From: Duncan M


This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C1B28E.76AB1BF0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"

Can someone precis the article or provide a URL?

------_=_NextPart_001_01C1B28E.76AB1BF0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">




<TITLE>RE: Investors Club</TITLE>



Can someone precis the article or provide a URL?




------_=_NextPart_001_01C1B28E.76AB1BF0--
 
Last edited by a moderator:
W

WebBoard

Guest
Reply: 2.1
From: The Wife


I have met people who love Investors club and those that loathe it. I guess its horses for courses, I guess you may get the property cheaper if you do your own research, but then you could also get a property cheaper if you didnt use a real estate agent. But the fact remains this is not everyones cup of tea, some people dont have the time or the desire to do their own research etc etc. I dont see what being bankrupt or not being bankrupt has got to do with it? Somebody enlighten me please.

Cheers, TW
 
Last edited by a moderator:
W

WebBoard

Guest
Reply: 2.1.1
From: Day Dreamer


Peter Spann is widely advertised as gone from broke to become a multi-millionaire in 4 years. I browsed his books and advertising materials but could not find out exactly how he made his money. Does anyone know ?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Reply: 2.1.1.1
From: Dale Gatherum-Goss


Hi

I'm tempted to say by running seminars and telling people how to do what he claims to do. . . but, that would be cynical.

I have notes from one of his 2 day seminars, kindly donated by a client of mine who attended.

PS seems to advocate a mixed bag of investing in shares (he likes the peg ratio from memory - any thoughts Eric?) and from buying properties and renovating them. Then, revaluing the property and doing it all over again.

As with all marketing companies, I am never quite sure what is sales hype and what is fact.

Have fun

Dale
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Peter Spann

Reply: 2.1.1.2
From: Michael Croft


Like most entrepreneurs he has made his money in many ways and it was all there in the book - albeit between the lines. He went from checkout operator to copy writer to business owner whilst simultaneously investing in shares and property.

His substantial net worth is a combination of business property and shares, but I would have to say that the business growth of several 1000 % per annum for several years(both Freeman Fox and Full Life Pharmacies) have contributed a lot to the phenomenal growth. This does not detract from his track record as a property investor but DSR is not such a problem with the sort of income we are talking.

Gotta take my hat off to him as he is a good business man and a first rate marketer.

Michael Croft
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Peter Spann

Reply: 2.1.1.2.1.1
From: Michael G


Hi,

That's a nicely detailed response. I've actually met Kevin myself at a Penrith(NSW) meeting. Pretty likeable guy.

I have know about the club pretty much since it began, but though I never felt comfortable about buying through them (maybe I'm a control freak) I did use their original purchase criteria to select a great property in Sydney. I think I was uncomfortable about buying interstate (QLD) at the time, because I was unfamiliar with the area.

Michael G
 
Last edited by a moderator:
W

WebBoard

Guest
Reply: 2.1.2
From: Brett Burt


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_019F_01C1B3A9.387C4E00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If you (claim to) retire at 27 via via property investment, using your ='unigue' property investment 'system' (see Investors Club literature), =then go bankrupt a few years later,......this may mean your system has a =few minor faults, don't you think ?
Pay 6.6% plus commission and follow the system and see for yourself. I =mean since 1995, everyone's property has doubled in value in Brisbane, =hasn't it ?

Brett

------=_NextPart_000_019F_01C1B3A9.387C4E00
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">






Ifyou (claim to)retire at 27 via via =property
investment, usingyour 'unigue' property investment 'system' (see =Investors
Club literature), then go bankrupt a few years later,......this may mean =your
system has a few minor faults, don't you think ?
Pay 6.6% plus commission and follow the system and =see for
yourself. I mean since 1995, everyone's property has doubled in value in =
Brisbane, hasn't it ?

Brett

------=_NextPart_000_019F_01C1B3A9.387C4E00--
 
Last edited by a moderator:
W

WebBoard

Guest
No Topic

Reply: 2.1.1.3
From: Brett Burt


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01B6_01C1B3A9.56E6DD60
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

.....shit baffles brains.

------=_NextPart_000_01B6_01C1B3A9.56E6DD60
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">






....shit baffles brains.

------=_NextPart_000_01B6_01C1B3A9.56E6DD60--
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Investors Club

Reply: 2.1.3
From: Ross Sondergeld


Hi,


Subject: Investors Club

TW said, "I have met people who love Investors club and those that loathe
it. I guess its horses for courses, I guess you may get the property cheaper
if you do your own research, but then you could also get a property cheaper
if you didnt use a real estate agent. But the fact remains this is not
everyones cup of tea, some people dont have the time or the desire to do
their own research etc etc. I dont see what being bankrupt or not being
bankrupt has got to do with it? Somebody enlighten me please."


1. In Queensland the maximum fee a licensed real estate agent can charge to
sell is "5.0% of the first $18,000 and 2.5% of the balance of the purchase
price (PLUS GST).

The Investors Club gets paid 6% or similiar... This fee exceeds the max fee
specificied in the Property Agents and Motors Dealers Act in QLD. Therefore,
their operations are contrary to the relevant legislation.


2. I'll let someone else finish the list...

3.

4.

5.

6.




Ross Sondergeld ~ Buyer Agent

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" Imagine buying real estate the easy way...
...with a Buyer Agent on your side!!! "

Buyerside Real Estate Mobile 0412 289 464
Office 9b, 34 Glenferrie Drive Office (07) 5562 1555
East Quay Corporate Park Fax (07) 5562 1248
Robina QLD 4226, Gold Coast Buyerside@hotmail.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
 
Last edited by a moderator:
W

WebBoard

Guest
Reply: 2.1.3.1
From: Brett Burt


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1B3BD.F9C1C0E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2. They get 6.6% commission.
3. The promoters or 'support members' have no training or professional =experience, support members make between $3000 and $6500 commission (and =if they get say 3 sales a month a lot they leave their jobs and do this =full time and why wouldn;t they?)

4. It is relatively easy money as lot of simple (as opposed to =sophisticated ) investors are easily convinced,
5. are not working for the buyer but for the seller (they get paid by =the vendor),
6. they are not a 'club' in the true sense of the word club as outlined =by NSW Dept of Fair Trading and other state regulatory companies,
7. the system has be been shown not to work as continually borrowing =the increased equity does not take into account no or low capital growth =and no or low rent returns to service higher debt levels using =diminishing depreciation,
8. they have a lot of problems with valuations coming under sought after =price,
9. rents are often not achieved,
10. properties have not doubled in Brisbane in last 7 years,
11. many properties are not near CBD's etc and do not conform with what =they state at their meetings as the criteria.

I will qualify the above by saying that people are now told what the =commission is. Compared to a lot of other marketing groups out there the =are pretty good, they DO NOT two tier market and are far more open than =most of their competitors who are non mainstream realtors. BUT WHY PAY =6.6% COMMISSION TO AN UNSKILLED PERSON FLOGGING YOU A PROPERTY YOU COULD =GET YOURSELF FOR ZERO COMMISSION ?

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1B3BD.F9C1C0E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">






2. They get 6.6% commission.
3. The promoters or 'support members' have no =training or
professional experience, support members make between $3000 and $6500 =commission
(and if they get say 3 sales a month a lot they leave their jobs and do =this
full time and why wouldn;t they?)

4. It isrelatively easy money as lot of simple =(as
opposed to sophisticated ) investors areeasily convinced,

5. are not working for the buyer but for the seller =(they get
paid by the vendor),
6. they are not a 'club' in the true sense of =the word
club as outlined by NSW Dept of Fair Trading and other state regulatory
companies,
7. the system has be been shown not to work as =
continually borrowing the increased equity does not take into account no =or low
capital growth and no or low rent returns to service higher debt
levelsusing diminishing depreciation,
8. they have a lot of problems with valuations =coming under
sought after price,
9. rents are often not achieved,
10. properties have not doubled in Brisbane in last =7 years,

11. many properties are not near CBD's etc and do =not conform
with what they state at their meetings as the criteria.

I will qualify the above by saying that people are =now told
what the commission is. Compared to a lot of other marketing groups out =there
the are pretty good, they DO NOT two tier market and are far more open =than
most of their competitors who are non mainstream =realtors.BUT WHY
PAY 6.6% COMMISSION TO AN UNSKILLED PERSONFLOGGING YOU A PROPERTY =YOU
COULD GET YOURSELF FOR ZERO COMMISSION ?

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C1B3BD.F9C1C0E0--
 
Last edited by a moderator:
W

WebBoard

Guest
Reply: 2.1.3.1.1
From: Rick Gibson


Let me begin by saying that I am in no way connected to the service that Investors Club offers.

I think that the public bashing of such a service is unwarranted. People are missing the point somewhere along the line.

When you see that 84 % of all people retire on less than 18k per year in retirement does that worry any of you? I am sure that the members of this forum are going to be in the 16% that does end up earning significantly more than the "average" (I hate that word)but there are a lot of people out there who will end up below the poverty line.

The people in this forum generally have the motivation, experience or knowledge to do this themselves. Unfortunately, the "average" person does not realise the world of abundance and opportunity that we live in and as such, fail to take advantage of it due to one reason or another.

Far too many People go through life with no financial education or indeed motivation. Somewhere along the line, something is not working.

I believe anyone who is out there doing their bit to increase the financial intelligence of society deserves a pat on the back, and, must I say it - to get paid for it whether it is 2% or 10%.

The people out there bashing the club, is it because they are competing with your services or simply the fact that they are not your cup of tea. So what. There is more than one way to skin a cat and your way of doing it isn't necessarily the best or only way. It is however the best for YOU. Investing is an individual thing, you pick the style and form that suits you best, there is no need to knock something different.

Provided the promoters of the club are doing everything legally, good on them for doing their bit to increase the financial intelligence and wellbeing of society.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sim

Administrator
Reply: 2.1.3.1.1.1
From: Sim' Hampel


Rick, considering the new legislation introduced in Qld to stop marketeers taking advantage of less sophisticated investors, I think there is a growing concern about such operations. Clubs like this should be held up to the spotlight and thoroughly examined too.

"Provided the promoters of the club are doing everything legally" - this is exactly the point. Some of the comments here are probing whether they are crossing that "fuzzy grey line" of legality.

What is the difference between this group and the much maligned 2-tier marketers ? (open question, not necessarily rhetorical !)

 
Last edited:
W

WebBoard

Guest
Reply: 2.1.3.1.1.2
From: G V


Hi Everyone,

Is there such thing as "the maximum fee a licensed real estate agent can charge to
sell" in Sydney and if it there then how much it is.

thanks

GV
 
Last edited by a moderator:
W

WebBoard

Guest
Reply: 2.1.3.1.1.3
From: Brett Burt


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1B427.90781E80
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I don't believe it is bashing, it is making people be honest and open. =What about if someone ends up in hot water a few years down the track =because of being given advice that was claimed to have been based on =experience but in fact was not? What then? No Rick, better a little =spotlight on people who make big claims now then cleaning up the =potential fallout a few years down the track. Anyway, that is my 2 cents =worth.

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1B427.90781E80
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">






I don't believe it is bashing, it is making people =be honest
and open. What about if someone ends up in hot water a few years down =the track
because of being given advice that was claimed to have been based on =experience
but in fact was not? What then? No Rick, better a little spotlight on
peoplewho make big claims now then cleaning up the potential =fallout a few
years down the track. Anyway, that is my 2 cents worth.


------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1B427.90781E80--
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Reply: 2.1.3.1.1.3.1
From: Ross Sondergeld


Hi,


Did anyone read the testimonials on the investor club web site. What a load
of absolute rubbish! People were saying one thing... and it was contrary to
fact and law.

Are people that gullible or is the Investors Club that well organised?

Anyway, here's #2...


2. Who does the Investors Club represent? Buyer or Seller?

"...the Club protects its member's (the purchaser's) best interests."
(- Testimonial from Barry Atkins, IC National Branch Manager)

Hmmm... Firstly, the IC has an active real estate license (the last time I
checked), therefore they are licensed real estate agents in Qld. Anyway, the
IC does enter exclusive seller agency agreements and/or they sell their own
properties... therefore they are the seller's agent.

As the seller's agent they own their "client" the seller fiduciary level
service. (Source: The Law of Agency) For example, they own the seller a duty
of loyalty, obedience, disclosure, confidentiality, reasonable care & skill
and accountability.

And the buyer is owed a duty of "fair and honest treatment" !!!

Essentially, they own the seller a duty of absolute LOYALTY and they must
act in the BEST INTERESTS OF THE SELLER at all times.

But now I'm confused?

The national branch manager said, "the purchasers best interests" !!!

Therefore... who does the IC work for? The buyer or seller?


Even the Investors Club are a little confused.





Ross Sondergeld ~ Buyer Agent

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" Imagine buying real estate the easy way...
...with a Buyer Agent on your side!!! "

Buyerside Real Estate Mobile 0412 289 464
Office 9b, 34 Glenferrie Drive Office (07) 5562 1555
East Quay Corporate Park Fax (07) 5562 1248
Robina QLD 4226, Gold Coast Buyerside@hotmail.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Reply: 2.1.3.1.1.3.2
From: Ross Sondergeld


Hi,


Did anyone read the testimonials on the investor club web site. What a load
of absolute rubbish! People were saying one thing... and it was contrary to
fact and law.

Are people that gullible or is the Investors Club that well organised?

Anyway, here's #2...


2. Who does the Investors Club represent? Buyer or Seller?

"...the Club protects its member's (the purchaser's) best interests."
(- Testimonial from Barry Atkins, IC National Branch Manager)

Hmmm... Firstly, the IC has an active real estate license (the last time I
checked), therefore they are licensed real estate agents in Qld. Anyway, the
IC does enter exclusive seller agency agreements and/or they sell their own
properties... therefore they are the seller's agent.

As the seller's agent they owe their "client" the seller, fiduciary level
service. (Source: The Law of Agency) For example, they owe the seller a duty
of loyalty, obedience, disclosure, confidentiality, reasonable care & skill
and accountability.

And the buyer is owed a duty of "fair and honest treatment" !!!

Essentially, they owe the seller a duty of absolute LOYALTY and they must
act in the BEST INTERESTS OF THE SELLER at all times.

But now I'm confused?

The national branch manager said, "the purchasers best interests" !!!

Therefore... who does the IC work for? The buyer or seller?


Even the Investors Club are a little confused.





Ross Sondergeld ~ Buyer Agent

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" Imagine buying real estate the easy way...
...with a Buyer Agent on your side!!! "

Buyerside Real Estate Mobile 0412 289 464
Office 9b, 34 Glenferrie Drive Office (07) 5562 1555
East Quay Corporate Park Fax (07) 5562 1248
Robina QLD 4226, Gold Coast Buyerside@hotmail.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top