IP in Hoppers Crossing Take 2! Strategy is an Important Consideration

I have held off adding to the last thread on the topic. Purely because I didn't have anything constructive to add at the time. What I found interesting regarding Hoppers Crossing and the reason I started another thread, was just this evening, I was speaking with a work colleague who is on exchange from the UK.

He is staying in Hoppers Crossing. He and his partner are in their late 20's and have been here since August. While they are really enjoying Australia they dislike living in Hoppers Crossing. Their main criticism is that the area is totally disconnected from restaurants, transport, bars, night spots and decent shops. Furthermore, it doesn't have a main area of focus. (ie a main street/towncentre).

I have to say, I agree with them.

My colleague owns an apartment ouright in Manchester and he wants to buy in an inner suburb in Melbourne. His comments on our outer suburbs (not just Hoppers Crossing) are representative of the viewpoint of many people of his age/generation. If there are other cashed up immigrants coming to Australia with these viewpoints, then perhaps the inner areas will continue to offer the best returns for property going forward?

It is really difficult to ascertain. I hold property in a range of inner, middle and outer suburbs. I also live in Melbourne's West.

When investing it is good to take into account all points of view - both for and against investing in certain areas. Gaining an understanding of people's investment strategies is also worthwhile. Investing in Blue chip property often requires large ongoing cash injections (ie -ve geared blue chip property) whereas buying in outer areas and country areas offers higher yields. Thereby enabling an investor the opportunity to hold the property for the long term and in the process, continue buying.

I find it interesting to read and learn from people who have been successful in making money from investments in the outer areas. Spiderman, Harris and Sash spring to mind. Likewise, I also enjoy learning from those who have invested successfully in the inner areas and from those who invest in commercial property.

In the end, it doesn't really matter where the equity is generated from. As long as the investments chosen are fulling the investor's goals.

Regards Jason.
 
Last edited:
Their main criticism is that the area is totally disconnected from restaurants, transport, bars, night spots and decent shops. Furthermore, it doesn't have a main area of focus. (ie a main street/towncentre).
What about Werribee Plaza?
http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/CA256F310024B628/0/B2A09BD9C947E3D8CA2576420018866A/$File/Werribee+Plaza+Final+Report+July+2009.pdf

Do you think there will be any flow-on effect after Werribee Plaza is redeveloped to the scale of Highpoint?

Werribee has a nice street, Watton Street, which is not far away.

Will the opening of the new select high school (Corey High School) at Werribee Technology Precinct in 2011 makes the suburb more desirable?
http://www.theage.com.au/national/scientists-honoured-20090519-bcwg.html

Investing in Blue chip property often requires large ongoing cash injections (ie -ve geared blue chip property) whereas buying in outer areas and country areas offers higher yields. Thereby enabling an investor the opportunity to hold the property for the long term and in the process, continue buying.
Spot-on!

I think the perception of Werribee and Hoppers Crossing may change due to many developments in Wyndham (new select high school, Werribee Plaza expansion, new rail link, Wyndham Harbour, expansion of urban boundary, outer ring road, etc.)

Trying to visualize:
Select High School > Balwyn
Werribee Plaza expansion > Maribyrnong
Wyndham Harbour > Docklands
Outer Ring Road > Eastlink
 
Take 2 how great. Let's hope this doesn't get closed as the other one was very entertaining for me... fantastic way to get through my daily routine of surfing the net, chatting on forums etc in this job. I shall PM deehwa and sash to invite them here.

Back to Take 2 Discussions, my inner city places are +ve even when I had substantial gearing. It just takes more skill + luck to find them. If you have no skill or no luck, perhaps you are better placed going to Werribee because as you said they're most likely +ve with little effort.

On your point about overseas investors, I like that view. The biggest offshore buyers right now are probably the Chinese and this has been well covered by media. I don't need to cite numerous articles like formulite to remind anyone I'd suspect. So where are these people going... they go where the good schools are. Anyone who's been to a Kew/Hawthorn/Camberwell auction around good schools would know.

Now if Werribee boasted a good school that attracts this class of investors, for example, that'd be good. So when you say "Werribee select high school > Balwyn" that's quite promising. Now just exactly which high school are you talking about...?
 
Now just exactly which high school are you talking about...?
http://www.theage.com.au/national/scientists-honoured-20090519-bcwg.html

Victoria's new select-entry state schools for high-performing students will be named after distinguished scientists Sir Gustav Nossal and Professor Suzanne Cory.

Due to open next year with 200 year 9 students, Nossal High School is being built on the grounds of Monash University at Berwick. Cory High School will open in 2011 at Werribee.
 
Mate.....boom...boom!!

Deltaberry seems to have no luck backing up his facts when you are around....interesting that they are placing selective schools in outer suburbs....

I think ....I can sit back and watch the entertainment happen now.....;)

http://www.theage.com.au/national/scientists-honoured-20090519-bcwg.html

Victoria's new select-entry state schools for high-performing students will be named after distinguished scientists Sir Gustav Nossal and Professor Suzanne Cory.

Due to open next year with 200 year 9 students, Nossal High School is being built on the grounds of Monash University at Berwick. Cory High School will open in 2011 at Werribee.
 
....interesting that they are placing selective schools in outer suburbs....
It is not surprising the 2 new select high schools are built in Wyndham and Casey, the areas where the greatest population growth occurs. There is no point locating these schools near the city which already has Melbourne High School and MacRoberston Girls' High.

I predict parents in the Western suburbs will be aspiring to send their kids to Corey High School. Some may even move to places near the school in Hoppers Crossing and Werribee for the convenience of their children. The nearest train station to Corey High School will be Hoppers Crossing station so you may see many students travelling alone the Werribee Line to this station. Renting out houses to high school students (especially International students) may be a possible scenario in the future - the High School may stimulate rental demand.

Sash, I'd sent you a PM 2 days ago.
 
Reminds me of when I was back working in the RAAF. I was posted to the RAAF Officer Training School at Point Cook. We were used to a pretty good place in Brisbane and were allocated a "married quarter" in Hoppers Crossing.

Well we went for a drive to our new neighbourhood, and my wife was in tears within about 2 minutes. We said bugger the cheap RAAF rent and short commute and decided to get a place at Kew. A great place to live. We eventually moved to Richmond where we stayed for 5 years.

This was back in 1997 - maybe it has changed since then???
 
It is not surprising the 2 new select high schools are built in Wyndham and Casey, the areas where the greatest population growth occurs. There is no point locating these schools near the city which already has Melbourne High School and MacRoberston Girls' High.

I predict parents in the Western suburbs will be aspiring to send their kids to Corey High School. Some may even move to places near the school in Hoppers Crossing and Werribee for the convenience of their children. The nearest train station to Corey High School will be Hoppers Crossing station so you may see many students travelling alone the Werribee Line to this station. Renting out houses to high school students (especially International students) may be a possible scenario in the future - the High School may stimulate rental demand.

Sash, I'd sent you a PM 2 days ago.

Forumite, these schools, which I know heaps about considering I am a Melbourne High old boy and my sister graduating from Mac Rob this year, is going to do bugger all in beating the growth of inner city property prices (which is basically what we are trying to establish) because there is no substitute for proximity to the CBD. This is the one (and to most people) the only consideration people care about when it comes to buying property. Hoppers/Werribee is super far to the CBD, there is absolutely no doubt about that and no one cares if Werribee Plaza redevelops to the size of Highpoint x 100 (has Knoxfield or Fountain Gate, or even Doncaster Shoppingtown done anything to the absolute growth in property prices, as compared to inner city?).

You seem to also confuse yourself that selective entry schools will increase property demand in the area (and hence drive up prices)...and unfortunately for you, is totally incorrect on multiple frontiers:

1. You treat selective entry schools like a quality private school, which are obviously different. People will pay big bucks to live near quality private schools, but not government schools (regardless of whether they are selective or not). These quality private schools are pretty much all saturated in the east, hence the explosion in prices. I am not bs~ing here. Just look at the plethora of selective entry schools in Sydney (it is like every government school is a selective entry school - immense sarcasm but you get the point), especially in low socio-economic areas. If you even appreciate or have any knowledge of the Sydney property market, you should recognise that house prices are still low and have experienced flat absolute capital growth.

2. I still don't see your attempted correlation with booming property prices in the Wyndham region given the establishment of Cory High School. At the end of the day, it is Werribee, and most people consider it a sh*thole whether you like it or not. If you think people will suddenly buy up Werribee property, then that is very naive to say the very least. Firstly, students will only be there for 4 years. Secondly, there is a limit to the no. of students the school takes each year, so the belief in mass demand really bewilders me. Thirdly, it doesn't change the fact that people who buy and choose to live in Werribee are povo people with stringent limits on their budgets. As I said, who cares if 100 people bid for your house in Werribee when their budget is $250K??? I'd rather have 2 bidders who beat the daylights out of each other to secure my house. You obviously are one of those people who believe (falsely) that % growth in properties is > absolute growth in properties.

3. You are also confusing yourself that selective entry schools are the same as zoned school zones (like for Balwyn High, Mckinnon, Glen Waverley Secondary college etc.). Living within school zones does add a premium, although the effect is really based on the prestige of the high school in question. Arguably, people will pay $100K more for a house within the Balwyn High School zone, but maybe only $20-30K more for a house within the Mckinnon high school zone. It is all relative. However, selective entry schools largely have nothing to do with this, and is based on academic merit rather than where you live which determines your chances of entry. Hence, this lack of locality discrimination renders living close by invalid.

Look...I don't really care if you disagree or not, but let me point something out to you (and others). I am 24 (as I have already mentioned in another thread) and I own a house which would probably be close to the $1mil mark on 40% LVR in the next 2 years. I am planning on buying another house (probably around the $700-750K mark next year, probably on 60% LVR this time. My house has gone up about $100K in 1.5 months, judging by a combination of comparable sales, agent opinion and personal insight working in Australia's largest independent valuation firm (used to...I have since moved on).

Admittedly, as people like Sash would know, most of my money has come from my parents, but remember, as I mentioned, my parents came to Australia with nothing, boatpeople in fact, and mum finished grade 3 and dad finished grade 5 in their native country. All they did was work in factories in Australia and bought little shoeboxes inner city when little houses in Fitzroy were $40K in the late 1980's...now worth $900K (except for that stupid house in Keilor Downs, haha). Now, if we are to compare with someone like Sash....Let's say Sash has 10 houses each worth $300K now = $3mil and lets assume it is fully paid off, i.e. he has $3mil in equity.

Well...let me say my parents, earning $10 an hour working in factories completely owns someone like Sash. Don't forget my sister and I went to private schools as well! That Forumite, is how we measure performance...absolute growth is king! Definitely no substitute there!
 
Hi DeeWha

In the 1st paragraph you were a Melbourne High School old boy and your sister graduated from Macrobertson Girls High School this year (both public schools).

By the last paragraph you and your sister(would that be Deltaberry) went to private schools, I realize that you may have gone to both, did you find attending MHS with the plebs. more beneficial than a private school?

Cheers

Pete
 
lol :D

there is no right or wrong strategy!

people make money buying regional

people make money buying outer suburbs

people make money buying middle ring

people make money buying inner suburbs


lmao :D



My strategy is to buy inner city units about 4 - 7 kilometres from the cbd.

But thats just me! :p
 
Now, if we are to compare with someone like Sash....Let's say Sash has 10 houses each worth $300K now = $3mil and lets assume it is fully paid off, i.e. he has $3mil in equity.

Well...let me say my parents, earning $10 an hour working in factories completely owns someone like Sash. Don't forget my sister and I went to private schools as well! That Forumite, is how we measure performance...absolute growth is king! Definitely no substitute there!


Retirement Time


Example


Person A:
Accumulates 20 fully paid off (lower priced properties)


Person B:

Accumulates 8 fully paid off (high priced properties)


Both Person A and Person B have achieved their goals..... however in a different way. Different strategy.


Yours isnt the only way you know!!

:)
 
http://www.theage.com.au/national/mortgage-pain-in-port-melbourne-20091208-khn1.html

Hopper Crossing is listed as one of the top 10 mortgage default area with more than 2% of mortgages in default. Other suburbs mentioned as relatively high default area Oak Park, Mornington, Melton, Boronia, Port Melbourne and North Fitzroy/Clifton Hill. Surprisingly Port Melbourne is the highest with 4% of its homebuyers behind in their payments.

On the other side of the equation, Kew and Heathmont had 0% mortgage default, Elwood had 0.1%, Flemington/Kensington and Hawthorn both have 0.2%.

It does seem to support that outer suburbs will struggle more as IR increases, with a couple of exceptions.
 
Let me get this right George Costanza....errr.....DeeHwa.

Your parents got here on a boat...made some money on property of which none of it is yours. You went to some pomptous private schools (I have nothing against this as I went to international schools with diplomatic kids)....and you my friend are the expert heh?:p

Lets face it not all people have made it like your parents. Your assumption of selective schools is all wrong....a lot of kinds of Asian and Sub continent backgrounds get there start here.....and a lot of them are in so called lower socio-economic backgrounds. I work for a large corporate and they seem to get a disproportionate from these schools as opposed to private schools.

So you think your parents can own me.....heh..heh.?

How old are you again........OMG.........just realised that you are probably just a teenager surfing this site.

Keep entertaining it has been great fun.

Better get off the internet.....it is time to go to school.;)


1. You treat selective entry schools like a quality private school, which are obviously different. People will pay big bucks to live near quality private schools, but not government schools (regardless of whether they are selective or not). These quality private schools are pretty much all saturated in the east, hence the explosion in prices. I am not bs~ing here. Just look at the plethora of selective entry schools in Sydney (it is like every government school is a selective entry school - immense sarcasm but you get the point), especially in low socio-economic areas. If you even appreciate or have any knowledge of the Sydney property market, you should recognise that house prices are still low and have experienced flat absolute capital growth.

2. I still don't see your attempted correlation with booming property prices in the Wyndham region given the establishment of Cory High School. At the end of the day, it is Werribee, and most people consider it a sh*thole whether you like it or not. If you think people will suddenly buy up Werribee property, then that is very naive to say the very least. Firstly, students will only be there for 4 years. Secondly, there is a limit to the no. of students the school takes each year, so the belief in mass demand really bewilders me. Thirdly, it doesn't change the fact that people who buy and choose to live in Werribee are povo people with stringent limits on their budgets. As I said, who cares if 100 people bid for your house in Werribee when their budget is $250K??? I'd rather have 2 bidders who beat the daylights out of each other to secure my house. You obviously are one of those people who believe (falsely) that % growth in properties is > absolute growth in properties.

3. You are also confusing yourself that selective entry schools are the same as zoned school zones (like for Balwyn High, Mckinnon, Glen Waverley Secondary college etc.). Living within school zones does add a premium, although the effect is really based on the prestige of the high school in question. Arguably, people will pay $100K more for a house within the Balwyn High School zone, but maybe only $20-30K more for a house within the Mckinnon high school zone. It is all relative. However, selective entry schools largely have nothing to do with this, and is based on academic merit rather than where you live which determines your chances of entry. Hence, this lack of locality discrimination renders living close by invalid.


Admittedly, as people like Sash would know, most of my money has come from my parents, but remember, as I mentioned, my parents came to Australia with nothing, boatpeople in fact, and mum finished grade 3 and dad finished grade 5 in their native country. All they did was work in factories in Australia and bought little shoeboxes inner city when little houses in Fitzroy were $40K in the late 1980's...now worth $900K (except for that stupid house in Keilor Downs, haha). Now, if we are to compare with someone like Sash....Let's say Sash has 10 houses each worth $300K now = $3mil and lets assume it is fully paid off, i.e. he has $3mil in equity.

Well...let me say my parents, earning $10 an hour working in factories completely owns someone like Sash. Don't forget my sister and I went to private schools as well! That Forumite, is how we measure performance...absolute growth is king! Definitely no substitute there!
 
Look...I don't really care if you disagree or not, but let me point something out to you (and others). I am 24 (as I have already mentioned in another thread) and I own a house

But really, without your parents $ input you would have never been able to buy it.

You've got an early inheritance.

Nothing wrong with that though, I think it's a great way for parents to give their kids a leg up.

But don't kid yourself into thinking you're some kind of property investing genius!

Your investing efforts are largely subsidised buy your mummy and daddy.

There's a lot to be said for standing on your own two feet.

DeeHwa said:
most of my money has come from my parents

But hey, what's theirs is yours right, they look after you now, you look after them when they're old! I know a few Gen Y's with this same attitude!

DeeHwa said:
but remember, as I mentioned, my parents came to Australia with nothing, boatpeople in fact, and mum finished grade 3 and dad finished grade 5 in their native country. All they did was work in factories in Australia and bought little shoeboxes inner city

...

my parents, earning $10 an hour working in factories

You're parents came from very humble beginnings and appear to have done exceptionally well, and I don't think many here would argue that they haven't.

I wish I could say the same about you......
 
because there is no substitute for proximity to the CBD. This is the one (and to most people) the only consideration people care about when it comes to buying property. Hoppers/Werribee is super far to the CBD, there is absolutely no doubt about that and no one cares if Werribee Plaza redevelops to the size of Highpoint x 100 (has Knoxfield or Fountain Gate, or even Doncaster Shoppingtown done anything to the absolute growth in property prices, as compared to inner city?).

Are you serious?

Be thankful that your parents have helped you and be thankful you will own their empire one day. Hopefully some day, you will be able to help your kids the same way. The fact that you are here is good and wanting to build more wealth is great and not out blowing their money on a new BMW.

Turn the blinkers off. Inner\outer city, regional, houses, units, whatever. Develop a strategy and stick to it. It seems that you have with inner city prop and that is great. But remember one thing, plenty of people have made lot's of money and have never even stepped foot in the CBD or surrounds. Keep learning champ and don't go knocking others if the strategy is working for them.
 
Top