IP ownership

From: Simon and Julie M


Can anyone please tell me if they know what the current statistic is for IP ownership in Australia? That is, how many Australians have 1 IP, 2 IPs or more etc. Recently someone posted that less than 1% own 3 or more. But what percentage own 1 or more?
Simon
 
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Reply: 1
From: Anonymous


Hi Julie and Simon,

I could have been wrong about that 1% as I was only repeating the seminar gurus statements. Several of them (4 that I know of) use it as a figure though so maybe they have got it right??

There must be a Bureau of Stats link that some has and will give us the correct answers ............ please :)
 
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Reply: 1.1
From: Paul Zagoridis


That's one of the risks with seminars. The more something gets repeated by different speakers, the more it "sounds" real.

The most famous example is the (in)famous Yale study of the class of 1957 about written goals. Lots of speakers use it to support writing goals as a way of achieving more. Sadly the study never took place. Doesn't mean I don't think written goals work.

Paul Zag
Dreamspinner
Oz Film Biz is at
http://www.healey.com.au/~paulz
 
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Reply: 1.1.1
From: Nigel W


So that study they all talk about never happened?!?! Perhaps this is a new sub-species of Urban Myth - the "Guru Seminar/Self help book stats myth" :^)

I rather suspect though that if somebody HAD done that study it would have revealed that result.

Perhaps the important thing is that people have goals they focus on. Writing them down is just the easiest way to distill and clarify you thoughts and aspirations.

maybe this would make a good new thread...

N.
 
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Reply: 1.1.1.1
From: Simon and Julie M


Let's not change the subject!
To be a serious investor it is important to have current info on ownership. We all know that property investment is a balancing act so it is important to know these things.
Any clues?
Simon
 
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Reply: 1.2.1
From: Simon and Julie M


Thanks for that Duncan. That material is interesting, however not current.

ABS puts out some interesting info but I'm sure the picture would have changed considerably since that data was taken.

Regards
Julie
 
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Reply: 1.2.1.1
From: Duncan M


Its from 1997.. Realistically, how much has changed since then?

Duncan.
 
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Reply: 1.2.1.1.1
From: Simon and Julie M


Duncan

I believe that a lot has changed since 1997.

For starters many baby boomers are buying IPs knowing that there Superannuation just isn't going to go the distance.

Secondly, FHOG has stimulated more than just first home owners buying a home to live in.

And thirdly, low interest rates are making property investment more attractive.

A few years ago we didn't have shows on TV like Hot Property, Location Location, Hot Auctions and the like. These shows reflect that property is a more popular investment choice today.

Just food for thought. The high vacancy rates in Sydney alone are enough to make one wonder.

JM
 
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Reply: 1.2.1.1.2
From: Simon and Julie M


Duncan
It seems that every man and his dog is buying and IP these days.
With 300 properties for lease in Mosman alone at domain.com.(population approx.23000)
I get the impression that the only tenants will be the man's dog.
Any clues?
simon
 
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Reply: 1.2.1.1.2.1
From: Anonymous


300 divided by (23,000 divided by 2.2) is approx. 2.8% of the suburb up for rent. 2.2 is the heads per household.

A vacancy factor of less than 3%, I'm sorry but I've missed your point Simon/Julie. :)
 
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Reply: 1.2.1.1.1.1
From: Duncan M


On 9/12/01 10:57:00 AM, Simon and Julie M wrote:
>Secondly, FHOG has stimulated
>more than just first home
>owners buying a home to live
>in.

I wonder if the FHOG is only just managing to offset the impact on Home Ownership that the following must have had:

-Larger Car Debts,
-Larger car insurance bills,
-new Mobile Phone Debts,
-Larger Credit Card Debt,
-Store Card Debt,
-Larger Travel Debt,
-increased Gambling spending,
-increased casualisation of the workforce,

Surely looks to me like home-ownership must surely drop or the average age at which it is achieved increased. For one, I have no fear of vacancies for our portfolio in the deep south of Adelaide. Alas, we did have a 3br house vacant for 2 days last week though :)

I feel sure the increased focus on property investment and the effect of the FHOG on a segment of the population will surely be offset by the mindless addiction to doodads and debt that is increasingly pervading our society :)

Duncan.
 
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Reply: 1.2.1.1.2.1.1
From: Anonymous


I suppose everybody is watching programs on property and how to buy property. The great majority of the people featured are home buyers not investors.

I believe most will watch and do nothing about IP's. Why because they will also watch Paul Clithero who advises they "save your way to wealth". With such a famous 'authority' advising them, they will rely on managed funds and super (the idiots).

Also you would think that the people attending the IP seminars would be motivated? Well less than 5% of seminar attendees take action! ie. actually go out use what they learnt and buy an IP. What percentage of the population do IP seminars? You're guess is as good as mine, but it will be very small.

So what does this tell you? That the stats probably haven't changed much in the last 4/5 years.
 
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Reply: 1.2.1.1.2.2
From: Nigel W


Simon & Julie

I agree with Duncan on this one. Most people lack the confidence, the knowledge, the awareness or are just too apathetic to be actively investing.

There is a real mindset change require to get over the fact that you must spend money to increase your wealth. Doesn't sound quite right does it...but its the foundation of wealth building. You have to convert your cash or equity into income streams. That's all buying shares/property/etc is. Even if you're in it for growth rather than immediate income, the thought is that you'll either sell to realise the cap gain in cash or refinance/draw down whatever on the equity to spend on living.

(btw I don't endorse that 2nd concept but its a popular one amongst the various investor clubs/gurus.)

To sum up guys, I think that even the recent proliferation of get rich quick guru seminars are not going to have a significant long term impact upon the number of investors in the market. If you own even 2 ip's you're likely to remain part of an exclusive group for the foreseeable future. Own more than 10 and you'll be in a very small group indeed!

Cheers
N.
 
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Reply: 1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1
From: Simon and Julie M


Anon
I don't know whether I'm responding to one or more anons.
I am curious about IP ownership levels, for every where I turn in the city where I live there are investment advisers with new property as part of a balanced portfolio.
I might add that we have never bought new and do not intend doing so in the future unless they're giving them away,so to speak.
It does not fit our strategy. We have continually gone against the trends and it has enabled us to gather a positive cashflow portfolio of sound properties. ie. land content 45%average. realised cap growth 10%+ and cashflow+.
So anon, my question might be better answered by someone with vested interests in the North shore, Northern beaches area of Sydney.
your thoughts are welcome.
simon
 
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Reply: 1.2.1.1.2.2.1
From: Simon and Julie M


Nigel
Do you know how many people have only 1 IP?
Regards
Simon
 
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Reply: 1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1
From: Anonymous


Simon

Only one Anon in this thread and I am also familiar with your situation. I do have interests in Balmoral and Mosman - what specifically would you like to Know? :)
 
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Reply: 1.2.1.1.2.2.1.1
From: Simon and Julie M


Anon
If you have interests in Balmoral and Mosman is 300 vacancies the norm or not?
Do you know how many people own only one IP?

Regards
Simon
 
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Reply: 1.2.1.1.2.2.1.1.1
From: Les .



G'day Simon & Julie,

The figure I'd read was 6% of Aussies own 1 IP - I had a quick scan thru a couple of books where I thought I'd read it, but couldn't find it.

(From memory) only 2% own 2 IP's, and less than 1% own 3 or more.

If I re-discover the sources, I'll let you know. Almost sure Jan might have been one source - there was at least one more, and the figures agreed,

Regards,

Les


- "Eschew Obfuscation" ;^) -
 
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Reply: 1.2.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1
From: Les .



G'day Simon & Julie,

A few snippets (but no recent ones - sorry):-

Jan - "Changing Times" (p153) - referring to '94

ABS - only 6% buy IP's

Morgan Poll - 7% (and stated this %age had not changed since '91)

---------------

Jan "Changing Times" (pp158 - 160)

80% selling IP's were selling their ONLY IP - so out of the 7% that "get in", over 5% "get out" again.

And the ABS chart (p160) - '93 assumed

# of IP's .... # of people investing
1 ..................... 4.7%
2 ..................... 0.8%
3 ..................... 0.2%
4 ..................... 0.1%
5 + ................... 0.2%

TOTAL .................... 6.0%


And Jan opines that "No matter what aspect of life we look at, less than 10% of people seem to be successful."

Also "90% of the world's wealth is in the hands of 10%."

----------------

And (from Duncan's post) ABS say 6.5% in '98 have IP's - and 5% have only 1 IP.

Is that an uptrend from '94? Maybe, maybe not - even if it is, there is every likelihood that the figure won't be likely to exceed 10% - so there's still plenty of opportunity, n'est ce pas ??

Regards,

Les


- "Eschew Obfuscation" - ;^)
 
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