IP with Granny flat

So if you had an IP with granny flat / bungalow, self contained with electricity and plumbing:

1: You would still need to check with council to certify for renting or get a certifier out?

2: To make a separate electricity meter, do you know approximately cost of that?

3: If you separate electricity and fence so entrance is divided between main entrance is that acceptable or you need to go through a more formal process even for this?
 
I have another scenario.

Most seem to have concerns about ILLEGAL renovations to create a granny flat.

What if your house us built in such a way that no modifications are required to rent a portion of it separately. Basically the floor plan is council approved. Add to this the fact that it's double brick and therefore it's fire prooved.

Does anyone see a problem with this.
My guess is the only problem you might have is the local councils policy in regards to having two leases for the one property.

What are peoples thoughts with this ?
Do you see any issues ?
 
Just read the SEPP again and had a thought that might help some people.

When it comes to setbacks.
It gives you various distances like .9 for side and 3.0 for rear.
But it also says that the development must not create any "NEW" dwellings or "NEW" additions under these limits.

My thoughts are that if you are converting an existing structure that is closer than these setbacks then it should be acceptable. Only "NEW" structure must adhere to the setbacks.

What are peoples thoughts. Am I kidding myself.
 
My guess is the only problem you might have is the local councils policy in regards to having two leases for the one property.
Well, you say "only", but that's the issue. If you can surmount this one, which given NSW planning policy may be achievable, then you may be good to go. But putting two leases in place without Council permission could cause you worlds of hurt, eg your insurance wouldn't be valid, for a start.
 
Well, you say "only", but that's the issue. If you can surmount this one, which given NSW planning policy may be achievable, then you may be good to go. But putting two leases in place without Council permission could cause you worlds of hurt, eg your insurance wouldn't be valid, for a start.

Yes true "ONLY" does not really show the level of effort that this obstacle will take.

possibly the one lease with everyone on it and an "understsanding" between the tennants of who uses what.

I have another question with setbacks that im currently waiting for an answer on.

When it comes to side and rear boundry designation. What is the side and what is the rear when it comes to corner blocks that have the flats main entrance off the side street.( basically the primary dwelling and the flat have different side and rear designations.

the schedual 1 of the SEPP does not clarify and im waiting for a return call to clarify. Does anyone here know 100% ??
 

Yes i had a read of that but the people i spoke to at NSW planning were not 100% sure. But i assume Brazen would be right up to speed on this.

It is interesting that the the SEPP says all NEW dwellings and NEW additions must meet the setbacks. What about converting existing dwellings ie no external changes. Does this still have to meet the setback requirements or are the existing setbacks allowed.
Im waiting for an answer on this one also.

Cheers
 
What if your house us built in such a way that no modifications are required to rent a portion of it separately. Basically the floor plan is council approved. Add to this the fact that it's double brick and therefore it's fire prooved.

Does anyone see a problem with this.
My guess is the only problem you might have is the local councils policy in regards to having two leases for the one property.

What are peoples thoughts with this ?
Do you see any issues ?

Hi Devo, I don't think you are allowed to have more than 1 kitchen in a single house (maybe just a bar area) so I rekon this would rule out 2 leases done legally - unless they are sharing the stove. :) Of course, you can rent the whole house and allow them to sublet rooms and areas. Can't help you on the setbacks.
 
Hi Devo, I don't think you are allowed to have more than 1 kitchen in a single house (maybe just a bar area) so I rekon this would rule out 2 leases done legally - unless they are sharing the stove. :) Of course, you can rent the whole house and allow them to sublet rooms and areas. Can't help you on the setbacks.

yes these are all options.My property actually has an outdoor laundry so sharing that is easy.As for the kitchen. it is all approved( its a bar mind you). but the actual layout is approved and thats what matters.
Im not worried about my setup. After investigating i have found that i should get an approval very easy. I went through the schedual 1 which forms the requirements and both myself and a local certifier found no show stoppers so imk very happy.

I just mention this stuff because during my research i investigated all options so i thought it would be worth mentioning them here incase it might help someone else.
 
Just read the SEPP again and had a thought that might help some people.

When it comes to setbacks.
It gives you various distances like .9 for side and 3.0 for rear.
But it also says that the development must not create any "NEW" dwellings or "NEW" additions under these limits.

My thoughts are that if you are converting an existing structure that is closer than these setbacks then it should be acceptable. Only "NEW" structure must adhere to the setbacks.

What are peoples thoughts. Am I kidding myself.

A conversion from an existing structure (like a shed/garage- Class 10A) to a secondary dwelling (granny flat- Class 1A) is indeed a 'new dwelling' under the definitions. A change of use is what you're after and that is still seen as a 'new dwelling' because it's being re-classified with works being done to bring it up to standard...these new works include re-certifying the slab from a class 10 slab to a class 1 (needs a willing Engineer), minimum insulation, BASIX Certificate (energy efficiency) compliances, waterproofing to wet areas, termite protection etc...

So in my experience, the structure must meet ALL of the SEPP controls to be considered as a Complying Development under the 'Affordable Housing SEPP-2009'. This includes a 3 m rear setback, 0.9 m side setback, 3.8 m max height (measured from lowest natural ground) plus some other regulations with regard to minimum landscaping, access to private open space etc.

Notwithstanding this, you can go for a DA instead, which most Council's will consider on a merit basis. Note, they can still refuse you and you won't know until after you shoot for goal- it's a gamble with a DA Application. Following the SEPP absolutely guarantees approval. A DA also takes longer (60 days vs 10 days), requires much more drafted material/statements plus it gets advertised and notified to neighbours (the SEPP does not). There are also certification costs relating to the compliances noted above.

Most Council's allow a 'Pre-DA Meeting' which will help them asses the application before you formally apply for the DA> they charge around $400 - $500 and you would attend with the draftsman to meet the panel. You would still need to attend with some drafted plans which will set you back approx $2,000 initially though. So it is a gamble, but one that can pay off.

I hope this helps.

P.S. I hate doing conversions because people think it's easy- it's NOT and it takes twice the work and the paperwork costs twice as much as a new granny flat under the SEPP> I only ever do it when the client fully understands this....they rarely do :(

1. A new granny flat under the SEPP costs around $5,500 to approval all up including all inspections.

2. A granny flat conversion cost about double that plus the physical works to bring a garage/shed up to the BCA Dwelling standards.

I get a hell of a lot of people calling me wanting granny flat conversions but they don't want to pay the required fees- and most of it doesn't go to me, it goes to Surveyors, Engineers and Council. They usually think it's just a matter of filling in a simple Council form. I wish it was but it's not.
 
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A conversion from an existing structure (like a shed/garage- Class 10A) to a secondary dwelling (granny flat- Class 1A) is indeed a 'new dwelling' under the definitions. A change of use is what you're after and that is still seen as a 'new dwelling' because it's being re-classified with works being done to bring it up to standard...these new works include re-certifying the slab from a class 10 slab to a class 1 (needs a willing Engineer), minimum insulation, BASIX Certificate (energy efficiency) compliances, waterproofing to wet areas, termite protection etc...

So in my experience, the structure must meet ALL of the SEPP controls to be considered as a Complying Development under the 'Affordable Housing SEPP-2009'. This includes a 3 m rear setback, 0.9 m side setback, 3.8 m max height (measured from lowest natural ground) plus some other regulations with regard to minimum landscaping, access to private open space etc.

Notwithstanding this, you can go for a DA instead, which most Council's will consider on a merit basis. Note, they can still refuse you and you won't know until after you shoot for goal- it's a gamble with a DA Application. Following the SEPP absolutely guarantees approval. A DA also takes longer (60 days vs 10 days), requires much more drafted material/statements plus it gets advertised and notified to neighbours (the SEPP does not). There are also certification costs relating to the compliances noted above.

Most Council's allow a 'Pre-DA Meeting' which will help them asses the application before you formally apply for the DA> they charge around $400 - $500 and you would attend with the draftsman to meet the panel. You would still need to attend with some drafted plans which will set you back approx $2,000 initially though. So it is a gamble, but one that can pay off.

I hope this helps.

P.S. I hate doing conversions because people think it's easy- it's NOT and it takes twice the work and the paperwork costs twice as much as a new granny flat under the SEPP> I only ever do it when the client fully understands this....they rarely do :(

1. A new granny flat under the SEPP costs around $5,500 to approval all up including all inspections.

2. A granny flat conversion cost about double that plus the physical works to bring a garage/shed up to the BCA Dwelling standards.

I get a hell of a lot of people calling me wanting granny flat conversions but they don't want to pay the required fees- and most of it doesn't go to me, it goes to Surveyors, Engineers and Council. They usually think it's just a matter of filling in a simple Council form. I wish it was but it's not.

Thanks for the info. As far as the new dwelling goes. I was refering to changing a already habitable space( bedroom,rumpus,bar). Thats why i wondered if it was still considered a new dwelling.But like you said. It is.
I confirmed through department of planning. Even if there are no changes( my case) Its use has changed and therefore considered a new dwelling.

While on the phone i discussed which boundry was considered the rear and suprisingly they said there is some give in this for me. As i have a "potential" granny flat with a main entrance from a side boundary. They would consider the rear to be opposite this. So a small win there.
I had a couple of other wins too but will keep those cards covered for now;).

So looks like i will have a SEPP approved granny flat at the end of my build.
Fingers crossed.
 
run around

Hi,

In contacting a few councils in VIC, about existing self contained bungalows on back of existing property its seems the rules are VERY strict.

For you to legally rent it out on separate lease independently it must:

- have been legally built or installed with proper building and council approval as a certified second dwelling. A few extra rooms with shared utilities won't cut in the eyes of the council.

- be defined as a legal second dwelling and not a dependant person structure. If dependant person it must be removed or converted otherwise with full building code / second dwelling approval if you can obtain this and how much it will cost and if it will be possible is quite unknown.

As MOST such structures were built by DIY people wanting to add more room for the kids or a bit extra cash in hand, very few can be rented out legally off the bat from purchase.

Based on this, is this strategy in VIC more of risk / overhead than it's worth? OR should one not let the council put you off if you can check a couple key boxes?

Are there consultants that can advise on such cases?
 
If you intend to split a home it's called an 'attached granny flat'. This is also true for a new extension which is touching the main dwelling in any way. For the 2 dwellings to be considered separate (detached) they must be separated by a minimum of 1.8m wall-to-wall.

The good news for attached granny flats is that there are no setbacks requirements. There is also no minimum lot-size requirements.

Something not many people know, though, is that you MUST provide a fire-rated wall between the two newly created dwellings, extending all the way up into the roof cavity. You also cannot have a door between the two newly created dwellings (i.e. you cant walk from one to the other). The newly created Granny Flat must have it's own external door to the outside world.
If the existing house is a 2-storey dwelling and one is to be above the other, a fire-rated ceiling/floor between them must exists as well. James Hardie sell a plasterboard product lined with metal which will meet the requirements. Where the wall extends into the roof-cavity, it must be properly supported and sealed. Any windows/doors between the dwellings must be sealed.
So the idea is to thave the 2 'dwellings' perfectly sealed so that any fire in either dwelling takes 60 minutes to penetrate. (Fire Rated Walls to 60/60/60 as per the BCA Part 3.7.1).

Masonry walls and ceiling (brick & concrete) also meets these requirements.

Cheers.
Serge.
 
That's good info there serge.
Good for me as my future granny flat is already built to dual oc spec. The setback rule for attached flats is even better.
I'm still annoyed that my local council made me connect the flat by an all weather access and doorway.($16,000) just to get my DA passed. only to not need it at the end and in fact have to close up the new doorway.
Councils drive me crazy. Common sense is left at the door with that lot.
If you intend to split a home it's called an 'attached granny flat'. This is also true for a new extension which is touching the main dwelling in any way. For the 2 dwellings to be considered separate (detached) they must be separated by a minimum of 1.8m wall-to-wall.

The good news for attached granny flats is that there are no setbacks requirements. There is also no minimum lot-size requirements.

Something not many people know, though, is that you MUST provide a fire-rated wall between the two newly created dwellings, extending all the way up into the roof cavity. You also cannot have a door between the two newly created dwellings (i.e. you cant walk from one to the other). The newly created Granny Flat must have it's own external door to the outside world.
If the existing house is a 2-storey dwelling and one is to be above the other, a fire-rated ceiling/floor between them must exists as well. James Hardie sell a plasterboard product lined with metal which will meet the requirements. Where the wall extends into the roof-cavity, it must be properly supported and sealed. Any windows/doors between the dwellings must be sealed.
So the idea is to thave the 2 'dwellings' perfectly sealed so that any fire in either dwelling takes 60 minutes to penetrate. (Fire Rated Walls to 60/60/60 as per the BCA Part 3.7.1).

Masonry walls and ceiling (brick & concrete) also meets these requirements.

Cheers.
Serge.
 
This is also true for a new extension which is touching the main dwelling in any way.

The good news for attached granny flats is that there are no setbacks requirements. There is also no minimum lot-size requirements.

Something not many people know, though, is that you MUST provide a fire-rated wall between the two newly created dwellings, extending all the way up into the roof cavity. You also cannot have a door between the two newly created dwellings (i.e. you cant walk from one to the other). The newly created Granny Flat must have it's own external door to the outside world.

Serge.

What is the go when a garage or carport separates the attached dwellings?
 
That's good info there serge.
I'm still annoyed that my local council made me connect the flat by an all weather access and doorway.($16,000) just to get my DA passed.

Let me guess...you're on rural land? ...Penrith Council?
 
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What is the go when a garage or carport separates the attached dwellings?

That's a very good question.

The garage or carport effectively classifies the 2 dwellings into an 'attached' situation, so you have to provide a fire-rated wall between them on one side of the garage or carport (see my post above re: attached granny flats).

The setbacks for 'detached granny flats' still applies though, so a 3 mtr rear setback still applies.
 
That's a very good question.

The garage or carport effectively classifies the 2 dwellings into an 'attached' situation, so you have to provide a fire-rated wall between them on one side of the garage or carport (see my post above re: attached granny flats).

The setbacks for 'detached granny flats' still applies though, so a 3 mtr rear setback still applies.

So it's attached, but not also detached.... The 3m rear set back applies, but not the side setback and min lot size. Is this because the 3m setback applies to all complying development, not just granny flats?
 
Im saying that the carport/garage has to be part of either one of the dwellings, depending on which side you fire-rate.

Side and rear setback rules still apply only for the newly created granny flat (0.9 m side setback, 3 m rear setback) because the 2 dwellings are 'detached' from each other (separated by a Class 10 structure- garage/carport) and hence are detached; so the 3 m rear setback applies under the SEPP.
 
Let me guess...you're on rural land? ...Penrith Council?

Shoalhaven council. I would have necked myself over the additional cost to do this but I made the most of it and now as well as an all weather flat access. I also have internal access to the garage and the external laundry is now internal. So it's still an add value type renovation.
 
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