is it better to have been poor at one stage in your life?

[WattleIdo]

I think that's the difference - knowing where to spend and where to enjoy not spending.

A good meal, tips,paying for the best people, generosity of time and money to charities, good quality clothes that last: these are the hallmarks of the rich.

They can be frugal too; have budgets and don't waste money on ****.

This contrast is highlighted in the novel, The Talented Mr Ripley. Tom is the lower middle class guy who is overwhelmed by his desire for a 'rich lifestyle ' but has really 'bougeois' taste. The rich guy is understated, popular, happy living on a tight budget but doing it with boats and friends and generosity in Italy (during the 60's).

I'm trying to make that adjustment too - donate generously to the friend who runs to raise money for stroke victims and cut out a bit of junk food and unnecessary spending for a fortnight; take in stray animals; etc.

Thanks Blacky - feeling inspired to walk to work again.

Thanks Skater and others for your examples of getting through really tough times. Personally, I admire that incredible strength and pride. If anything will give you 'self esteem', that will!

My Mum brought us up on the smell of an oil rag and did a good job, I reckon.
Not that long ago, most people lived like that all the time.

 

[TMNT]

As Skater said - if you want to save $20 - you dont go to a resturant in the first place.

you have a point, I could eat at home for half the price, but just because you choose to indulge in a restaurant, it doenst mean I can have a $200 lobster, I value eating out every now and again, but cant justify a $200 per person meal, even though I could afford it

As others have said - there are idiots at every end of the scale. On the other hand some of the best people in the world are financialy well off.
Im not sure that there is a direct correlation between finanical wealth and personallity.

It wasnt about personality, but correlation, I feel that there is a strong connection of people who have always been rich and people who have been poor and climbed out of the hole, I find most of them are more grounded, take an example of rich kid mentality

Looking at the price difference of a meal? youre just kidding yourself.

yes I agree, its ridiculous, but its out of habit, and I dont like myslef for it

How many people do you know who will 'shop around' for their fuel price, but 9/10 buy a drink/snack while in the store.

agree, I like to think im pretty shopping savy, I dont think ive ever bought a 600ml bottle of softdrink in my life, they cost like $3.20, for 600ml, whilst you can get the same drink at the supermarket for $2.50 for 2L, absolute no brainer for me

Or alternatively shop at coles/woolies to get a 4c discount at the bowser. Its a joke. Do the real maths. If 4c/l makes any difference to your weekly budget you are running a very fine line. Want to save that much? dont take your car to work 1day/week. Youll save a lot more than 4c/l.

the people arent doing the 4c discount because they need it, the mentality is, since the prices of fuel are reasonably similar in the area, if they save 4c per litre on something they have to pay for anyway, thats $2 per week, $100 per year, id rather have $100 in my pocket instead of someone else

I renonowned amongst my friends for spending a lot of money. I can blow a couple of hundred dollars in an evening without battering an eyelid. Yet strangely, I dont actually spend very much money at all. How? because I focus what I save money on, and what, in the scheme of things, doesnt make didly squat difference.

I live a very frugal life for 50 weeks of the year, but go nuts on overseas holiday!! in fact I got twice to threee times per year for 1-2 weeks, and love it!!

 

[Blacky]

you have a point, I could eat at home for half the price, but just because you choose to indulge in a restaurant, it doenst mean I can have a $200 lobster, I value eating out every now and again, but cant justify a $200 per person meal, even though I could afford it

Certainly. But I didnt think thats what you were talking about. I thought you were saying you would justify your meal purchase based on a small difference (ie $5 more for the steak over the pasta?).

the people arent doing the 4c discount because they need it, the mentality is, since the prices of fuel are reasonably similar in the area, if they save 4c per litre on something they have to pay for anyway, thats $2 per week, $100 per year, id rather have $100 in my pocket instead of someone else

But they miss the point entirely. They really do think that coles or woolies are "giving" away 4c of revenue/profit! But of coarse theyre not, otherwise fuel prices would be 4c lower. They are building in the cost of the 4c into their groceries. But most people cant see through this and Coles and Woolies have successfully dragged the focus away from the cost of groceries to the cost of fuel. People are saving pennies, but spending pounds.

I think WattleIdo summed it up quite nicely.
"Knowing where to spend, and where to enjoy not spending"

But alas. I have dragged this way off topic.

Sorry

Blacky

 

[TMNT]

IBut they miss the point entirely. They really do think that coles or woolies are "giving" away 4c of revenue/profit! But of coarse theyre not, otherwise fuel prices would be 4c lower. They are building in the cost of the 4c into their groceries. But most people cant see through this and Coles and Woolies have successfully dragged the focus away from the cost of groceries to the cost of fuel. People are saving pennies, but spending pounds.

exactly! I often sit there and laugh and think, you are saving $2 per week on fuel when you are paying $2 more for that bi weekly steak you buy from them, when you could it for $2 cheaper at the butcher next door!

or I see those people that scrounge around for the fuel dockets yet when they go shopping, dont check the price, and ignore the sign that says, buy 1 get one free for the same larger product or something similar along those lines

 

[Connolly]

Interesting thread and lots of views.

I can only speak from my perspective. My mum went bankrupt when I was 10. Lost all she'd work to build, then had her car stolen a month later- it was found burnt out; no insurance of course as couldnt afford it.

No home, no car and the emotional house of cards that followed day in and day out shaped a lot of my inner drivers. I never went without and my mum struggled to make sure I felt as little as possible of the ripples to follow.

Fast forward 10 years was heavily involved in Options trading, managing to do it full time at 20 years old and living off the income- yep the dream that the spruikers all sell. Thought was a piece of pie- and borrowed more and more money from the bank via margin loans and personal loans so could put more into my trades.

Then enter the GFC. All happened so fast and I broke all my rules. Dropped every dollar leaving $500 in my account. No job, no prosepcts and heavy personal loan hanging over my head.

After many dark dark years I got my **** together- these 2 experiences have given me such insight and value. I think unless you know what it is to be poor/ struggle then you can never truly appreciate what having financial success entails. The pitfalls of being in a hole can never be experienced through reading about it, through listening to someone who has gone through it, etc.

Being poor is not a pre-req to success and doing well but it gives and has given me a true sense and humility of what it is to be on both sides of the fence.

 

[kathryn d]

This is an interesting question.

Everyone has a different definition of poor.
I don't think I have ever been poor, but have stretched our budget to its limit at times.
But after speaking with the fiance of a close family member, who is only in his late 20's, my children had an easy life, compared to his.


I will always live a frugal life, because I choose to. I enjoy the challenge.
It's ingrained in me, and I wouldn't change it for anything.

To answer the question, I think it is good for everyone to experience ' struggling times.'

 

[ok180]

I've never been rich or poor, well not by my definition anyway, so can't give a first hand account but I certainly don't think you need to be poor to appreciate money. .

How would you know? I bet if I gave what you have become accustomed to someone in Uganda they would appreciate I whole lot more than you do.

It's hard to answer this question here because no one really is poor. Maybe temporarily poor but even the worst of person out there still has it better and has better opportunities to better themselves than probably 90% of the rest of the world.

 

[trey]

for all the people with leased cars and exspensive toys.

 

[trey]

like someone said before theres idiots and pretenders everywhere. you meet good people and bad people.

 

[jackbak]

How would you know? I bet if I gave what you have become accustomed to someone in Uganda they would appreciate I whole lot more than you do.

It's hard to answer this question here because no one really is poor. Maybe temporarily poor but even the worst of person out there still has it better and has better opportunities to better themselves than probably 90% of the rest of the world.

I don't know, that's why it's called an opinion. My point is I don't believe you need to be poor to appreciate money, I certainly appreciate everything I have and I don't need to have been poor to understand that.

But would I appreciate what I have more if I had been poor at one stage...? As you pointed out it's a difficult question to answer because there is always someone poorer than you, what you call poor is rich to someone else.

 

[Mitch1]

I think it is really, really hard to define poor! we all have different levels to qualify what poor is. I define it with attitude and from reading some of the other comments here, a lot of people are the same.

Poor, to me, is a negative attitude to a challenge or hurdle. I have been where skater was but I did not feel 'poor'. yes, we were most def strapped for cash, barely had money to put food on the table, but we could! walked everywhere, survived on very little, yes we worried if an added expense like an antibiotic was needed but always knew we would get through it - and with hard work and a willingness to sacrifice a lot over the years we are far better off now and we still have the same attitude.

I think if you compare yourself to others and what they have, that alone has the ability to undermine your self worth and you will feel both unhappy in yourself and poor, do that often enough and you create a negative attitude.

experience is good, if it is a good or bad experience, it is still good if you learn from it. if you learn, you are not poor.

 

[skater]

Poor, to me, is a negative attitude to a challenge or hurdle. I have been where skater was but I did not feel 'poor'.

I think I need to clarify something here.

By Australian standards, we were poor. We were living on welfare payments and paying a mortgage on 17.5%, but you don't get rent assistance when you are buying, only renting.

It was HARD! Really hard! EVERYTHING we had came from Op Shops, and we did without everything except essentials. It is amazing how many innovative ways you can use those ghastly manufactured rolls of devon that you get from the supermarket, and I'm sure we found them all. This was one of our staples, because it was cheap.

But, like you said, we just got on with it & didn't feel poor. That is, until Christmas day, when a neighbour (family on the dole) came & told us about the huge spread (of food) they had been given by one of the many charities they frequented, as well as the free toys for the kids etc.

We had been enjoying Christmas lunch and I'd splurged & bought some ham. We had ham cheese & pineapple on toast (pathetic, huh?) and they popped around to wish us well. The kids had unwrapped their presents, all handmade by us, and we were all happy as can be, until our 'guests' arrived.

After they left, I just sat down & bawled my eyes out. That was the lowest point of my life. These were long term unemployed who didn't want a job & knew all the charities to go to for handouts. They lived high, as there was always more money to be had from the charities. We, on the otherhand, had no assistance at all, our mortgage was much more expensive than their rent and we were often out of pocket trying to find work.

I've long lost contact with these people, but I can bet they are still taking the welfare $$.

 

[nhg]

As others have said - there are idiots at every end of the scale. On the other hand some of the best people in the world are financialy well off.
Im not sure that there is a direct correlation between finanical wealth and personallity.

Slightly off topic but...
I firmly believe that when most people look to save money - they look in entirely the wrong direction.
As Skater said - if you want to save $20 - you dont go to a resturant in the first place.
Looking at the price difference of a meal? youre just kidding yourself.

How many people do you know who will 'shop around' for their fuel price, but 9/10 buy a drink/snack while in the store.
Or alternatively shop at coles/woolies to get a 4c discount at the bowser. Its a joke. Do the real maths. If 4c/l makes any difference to your weekly budget you are running a very fine line. Want to save that much? dont take your car to work 1day/week. Youll save a lot more than 4c/l.

I renonowned amongst my friends for spending a lot of money. I can blow a couple of hundred dollars in an evening without battering an eyelid. Yet strangely, I dont actually spend very much money at all. How? because I focus what I save money on, and what, in the scheme of things, doesnt make didly squat difference.

Blacky

As above. Don't think there is any correlation whatsoever.

Most of my older self-made wealthy friends really struggle to enjoy what they have. Really can't switch off. My parents included to some extent. Took my dads friend to an expensive restaurant, she couldn't enjoy the meal, just complained. Much happier at super cheap buffet restaurant.

My wealthy friends born into wealthy families, most do not appreciate what they have and have a low tolerance for hardship.

That said, when my wealthy friends do have a tolerance for hardship they do very, very well. They do so much good in the world.

The only difference it makes to me, is as far as my own personal journey goes, I can piece together more relevant and useful information for my circumstances from self-made millionaires than I can from those who inherited it.

I've learnt not to source information TOO far up the ladder as a lot of the early tips and tricks they used were forgotten along the way and there is a bit of an information gap.

 

[Mitch1]

I think I need to clarify something here.

By Australian standards, we were poor. We were living on welfare payments and paying a mortgage on 17.5%, but you don't get rent assistance when you are buying, only renting.

It was HARD! Really hard! EVERYTHING we had came from Op Shops, and we did without everything except essentials.

But, like you said, we just got on with it & didn't feel poor. That is, until Christmas day, when a neighbour (family on the dole) came & told us about the huge spread (of food) they had been given by one of the many charities they frequented, as well as the free toys for the kids etc.

We had been enjoying Christmas lunch and I'd splurged & bought some ham.

After they left, I just sat down & bawled my eyes out. That was the lowest point of my life. These were long term unemployed who didn't want a job & knew all the charities to go to for handouts. They lived high...

I've long lost contact with these people, but I can bet they are still taking the welfare $$.

Hi Skater, I really do know what you mean, and truly wasn't trying to belittle your struggles, I genuinely did relate. We too 'owned' our own 2 up 2 down house, during the 90's when the interest rates went sky high. I remember being scorned by neighbours because I asked them for the can of left over paint they were chucking out and to give me their milk cartons when they were done because I was building a 'cubby house' for my 2 little girls for Xmas. Another year I swapped our 3 bar stools for a swing set, we only needed to buy new screws for it to make it look 'new' again!

I used old kitchen scissors to edge my small patch of grass! My eldest daughter lost one of her shoes, her first ever pair that I saved so hard for to buy from the clarkes seconds factory in Sydney. I cried my eyes out because I had no means to replace them. I had to readjust my 'what a horrible parent I am' thought to 'bare feet are better for them in the first few months of walking stage' and save dollars all over again to get her more when autumn /winter came. My mother in law visited from NZ and ended up getting her some. I used the money we saved to buy real meat during their visit, it was a win/win We had family tax benefits due to very low income and that was about all we got.

We wouldn't have known how to work the system even if we wanted to. Our gross annual income was 55k for a family of 4. 2 kids were asthmatic, ventolin and preventers for 2 and we had to keep renting a nebuliser, we could never get that sort of money saved those days. But it was one day at a time and we did it, now we are very comfortable but only because we got sick of making ends meet, turned ourselves into expats, struggled in different ways and saw what poverty was in undeveloped countries and felt very lucky and we saved our asses off, but it was good. The neighbours I left behind are doing what yours are doing I suspect, we didn't stay in touch.

By Australian standards we were also 'poor' by my (mentally readjusted) standards we had food, a roof over our head, clothes on our backs (yes also OP shop) and could just about keep our few bills paid. Spam in a can on good days (I will never eat it again unless I lose the shirt off my back first!) I remember telling my dad we were 'dirt poor' and I wouldn't be able to send birthday cards...what a verbal slap I got! "You own your own home, you have food on your table, you are all healthy and able to work, you do not depend on the gov. You are wealthier than you realise" was his answer. He was right. I used that attitude and continue to.

Those people you talked about when you had little and they had "so much" none of it was of their own making so even then you were a far better, richer person, in my opinion. To me character and attitude define wether or not you are poor.

 

[skater]

Hi Skater, I really do know what you mean, and truly wasn't trying to belittle your struggles,

I know that. I was kind of agreeing with you on attitude. We WERE poor! Less income than welfare, yet we were happy. The only time we FELT poor (as in really dirt-poor) was when our welfare bludging neighbours came & rubbed it in our faces how much they had & we didn't.

On the otherhand they FELT poor all the time. They looked poor, they acted poor, and to this day I'm betting that nothing has changed. If we met on the street, they would no doubt tell us we are 'lucky'.

It's amazing how 'lucky' you can be with a little hard work.

 

[Harro]

I know that. I was kind of agreeing with you on attitude. We WERE poor! Less income than welfare, yet we were happy. The only time we FELT poor (as in really dirt-poor) was when our welfare bludging neighbours came & rubbed it in our faces how much they had & we didn't.

On the otherhand they FELT poor all the time. They looked poor, they acted poor, and to this day I'm betting that nothing has changed. If we met on the street, they would no doubt tell us we are 'lucky'.

It's amazing how 'lucky' you can be with a little hard work.

So true! You need to look back on those "Tough Times" with fondness as it has moulded you into what you are today. All part of life's journey.

Keep Smilin'

 

[Banawarra]

I'm that poor I can't pay attention

 

[Ausprop]

from what I have seen, for the people that make it and lose it (and make it, lose it, then....) there becomes an appreciation that money is just a bit of a game. First you need to survive, once you are over that, if you have the basics of a nice house, car and holiday home, the rest is just bragging rights

 

[spanna]

Someone once told me "Money makes you more of what you already are" If your a nice charitable person it can make you even nicer and more charitable... on the other hand if your a D%&K... money makes you an even bigger D*#K!

 

[joanmc]

I have thought a lot about this question and I think that it does help to have been short on money, in some ways. I grew up with "upper middle class" mentality but the reality was we had "lower working class" income. Mum just made the most of what we had. She grew up in the depression and that formed a lot of her thoughts and attitudes.

I think the frugal ways I grew up with helped us through those acquisition years as we were never on a high income and like Skater helped us survive the high interest rates of the early 90s. (I friggin hate devon now!!).

Then we became wealthy (by our standards) and luckily we didn't go overboard as we lost a HUGE chunk in the tail end of the GFC and I have been going crazy trying to hold on to our assets ever since.

What was hardest was the drop in living standards and the fear that came with it. I remembered struggling in 89/90 and how awful it was. It was very, very hard to adjust our lifestyle back down and it still messes with my head every. single. day. But at least I have the skills to live cheaply and make a comeback.

Had I never been "poor", I don't think we would have made it.