Is renting out your IP through AirBNB legal?

[miss green eyes]

Just a few thoughts in relation to the following 2 articles on SMH:

I don't understand how it can be illegal if you're just renting out the whole place or rooms, in a property you own.
It seems no different to renting out through an agent.
Provided you pay your income taxes and capital gains tax (if you're renting out the whole or part of your PPOR).
Insurance is recommended but that's your problem if you don't have it.

I can see how it could be illegal if providing food you've prepared yourself as you need a commercial kitchen for that.
I think it should be legal if you are providing pre-packaged food (frozen meals, packaged biscuits), or your hot food is purchased from commercial premises.

If you are renting from a landlord, and your landlord allows you to sub-let, then would sub-letting via AirBNB also be legal?


http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/hosts-may-lose-most-by-opening-homes-to-holidaymakers-20130913-2tqb9.html

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/councils-...n-fine-for-renting-rooms-20140926-10mchq.html

 

[miss green eyes]

Is renting out property through AirBNB legal?

Dang, wanted to change the heading but couldn't.
I should have entitled this thread - "Is renting out property through AirBNB legal?"

 

[Ausprop]

perhaps councils should focus on collecting the bins and mowing the park

 

[Lord Shanghai]

The legality about AirBnB is front page news in New Yorkcity where there has been a backlash against apartment owners giving out keys to strangers.

I am all for free markets and am totally against criminalizing free trade.

Provided your neighbours don't complain, why wouldn't you use AirBnB as a means to increase your rental income?

 

[The Y-man]

I don't understand how it can be illegal if you're just renting out the whole place or rooms, in a property you own.
It seems no different to renting out through an agent.

My understanding is because this comes under "accomodation" (as in hotels etc) not "renting".

If it was renting, it would come under the requirements of the relevant tenancy laws of that state i.e. with regards to bonds, receipt of rent etc etc.

The Y-man

 

[miss green eyes]

My understanding is because this comes under "accomodation" (as in hotels etc) not "renting".

If it was renting, it would come under the requirements of the relevant tenancy laws of that state i.e. with regards to bonds, receipt of rent etc etc.

The Y-man

Lord Shanghai
I think certain councils in the US have outlawed it somehow (haven't looked into how they did it).

Y-Man
So, can owners circumvent this by requiring bonds from AirBNBers? Receipt of rent should be fine - they pay, they get a receipt. doesn't matter if they pre or post-pay. Although via AirBNB I think payment is sent to the owner upon checkin.

It seems to me that the laws in Australia, as they stand at this present time, should be OK as far as renting via AirBNB goes.

 

[thatbum]

The issue is a planning one. Depending on the planning regime your property is in, you could be classified as a form of short stay accommodation - which is a different use from "normal" residential.

There is a difference from if the landlord is living at the premises or not. If you are, then its more likely to be "okay" since its still mostly a residential use. (Similar to how renting out a room while you live there makes it unlikely to fall under residential tenancy legislation).

The danger is when you use the whole of the premises for short stay accommodation, and especially if you do so offering multiple leases.

If I ever did it, I'd only lease out for short stay if I was living there, or if I had other residential tenants at the premises (multiple occupancy) and I had only one of the units marked for short stay.

 

[redwing]

I can see how it could be illegal if providing food you've prepared yourself as you need a commercial kitchen for that.

I think it should be legal if you are providing pre-packaged food (frozen meals, packaged biscuits), or your hot food is purchased from commercial premises.

Council will be busy with that, along with chasing cupcake makers, hair dressers, massage, and many others all of whom operate from home, in some ares its not unusual to see signs out the front of houses also

 

[miss green eyes]

The issue is a planning one. Depending on the planning regime your property is in, you could be classified as a form of short stay accommodation - which is a different use from "normal" residential.

There is a difference from if the landlord is living at the premises or not. If you are, then its more likely to be "okay" since its still mostly a residential use. (Similar to how renting out a room while you live there makes it unlikely to fall under residential tenancy legislation).

The danger is when you use the whole of the premises for short stay accommodation, and especially if you do so offering multiple leases.

If I ever did it, I'd only lease out for short stay if I was living there, or if I had other residential tenants at the premises (multiple occupancy) and I had only one of the units marked for short stay.

Thanks Thatbum.
I see. Not so easy then.
That's how the Randwick lady in the SMH got out of it - she was living there.

RedWing - I see your point. However, if you advertise on your BNB ad that breakfast is included, that presents as written evidence for council to use against you. They could easily make a booking and, when you serve up the hot plate at breakfast.....

I do wonder sometimes...
I patronise restaurants where I know the staff are paid in cash, and have been so for many years. I see police eating there, and I wonder if they know too....
I see restaurants where they have a small indoors space and then place tables outside the restaurant, spilling all the way down the sidewalk....cop cars must drive past from time to time....

 

[Jen_PFR]

I patronise restaurants where I know the staff are paid in cash, and have been so for many years. I see police eating there, and I wonder if they know too....
I see restaurants where they have a small indoors space and then place tables outside the restaurant, spilling all the way down the sidewalk....cop cars must drive past from time to time....

Just off topic, payment of wages in cash is a civil matter, not a criminal matter - such issues would be pursued by the relevant state (or federal) industrial tribunal. For example, in WA the Dept of Commerce investigates wages and allowances matters for employees working under the state industrial relations jurisdiction.

 

[The Y-man]

Receipt of rent should be fine - they pay, they get a receipt. doesn't matter if they pre or post-pay. .

Sorry, to clarify, there are laws regarding how many weeks worth of rent you are allowed to accept up front (esp in the case of rooming house) etc if they prepay in the resi acts.

The Y-man

 

[miss green eyes]

Just off topic, payment of wages in cash is a civil matter, not a criminal matter - such issues would be pursued by the relevant state (or federal) industrial tribunal. For example, in WA the Dept of Commerce investigates wages and allowances matters for employees working under the state industrial relations jurisdiction.

Thanks. Also slightly off-topic - I know of people who would have been underpaid (below award wages). They however weren't being paid under the table.
So, how come the tax office doesn't pick this up when the boss/employee lodge their returns?

 

[Ausprop]

Thanks. Also slightly off-topic - I know of people who would have been underpaid (below award wages). They however weren't being paid under the table.
So, how come the tax office doesn't pick this up when the boss/employee lodge their returns?

ATO only is interested in the $ amounts, couldn't care less about the hours etc. If you are declaring what you have earnt, legal or illegal, they are happy

 

[miss green eyes]

Sorry, to clarify, there are laws regarding how many weeks worth of rent you are allowed to accept up front (esp in the case of rooming house) etc if they prepay in the resi acts.

The Y-man

Thanks. I guess AirBNBers would only be paying 4-6 weeks max rent upfront, if even that. Most of them, if staying long-term, would probably pay just a week or 2 upfront.

I imagine alot of people will circumvent the laws somehow or other.

Well well well, interesting....

Can't wait for the day they start springing up in my neighbourhood.

Note to self: Do not buy in the CBD or Bondi Beach. Prime AirBNB real estate.

 

[miss green eyes]

ATO only is interested in the $ amounts, couldn't care less about the hours etc. If you are declaring what you have earnt, legal or illegal, they are happy

But the payslips have the hours and amount paid written on them.

Doesn't take a genius to work out that a payslip which shows employee X worked 10 hours and was paid $50 was underpaid.
I know the ATO only gets the group cert, not the payslips.
It might show up if the company ever gets audited, I suppose.

 

[thatbum]

But the payslips have the hours and amount paid written on them.

Doesn't take a genius to work out that a payslip which shows employee X worked 10 hours and was paid $50 was underpaid.
I know the ATO only gets the group cert, not the payslips.
It might show up if the company ever gets audited, I suppose.

Ha you're right of course - but I think you vastly overestimate the ability of various government agencies to effectively communicate to each other.

You'd be surprised how few mechanisms tbere are for that sort of thing.

At my work at the courts, the civil section doesn't even communicate with the criminal division. The files would literally be sitting a few meters away from each other and are handled by the same court staff.

And half the time if you spread out your criminal offending between each state and territory, the courts wouldn't figure it out - its surprisingly difficult to summon a criminal record from another state for some reason.

 

[redwing]

Geez thatbum, you don't instil any confidence in the handling of the new laws ASIO want

 

[miss green eyes]

Ha you're right of course - but I think you vastly overestimate the ability of various government agencies to effectively communicate to each other.

You'd be surprised how few mechanisms tbere are for that sort of thing.

At my work at the courts, the civil section doesn't even communicate with the criminal division. The files would literally be sitting a few meters away from each other and are handled by the same court staff.

And half the time if you spread out your criminal offending between each state and territory, the courts wouldn't figure it out - its surprisingly difficult to summon a criminal record from another state for some reason.

I see.

All fun and games until someone loses an eye.

I know alot of tourists leave our shores without paying traffic fines.

It doesn't even bother me too much that they can block off driveways, park in clearways etc.

But they can also drive waaay over the speed limit and DUI without consequences. They know it, and so they do it.
Now that scares me.

 

[thatbum]

Geez thatbum, you don't instil any confidence in the handling of the new laws ASIO want

Yes no one should have any confidence.

Its almost comical how bad some of these agencies are at handling information. Obtaining it, keeping it confidential, using it for the purpose that it was obtained for... Just no.

I always have an internal chuckle when I meet people who are "privacy-paranoid" about the gubbermint having all their information.

The truth is usually that they are barely keeping their heads above water trying to do the job they are meant to be doing - let alone have the ability or resources to effectively share information.

 

[keithj]

The truth is usually that they are barely keeping their heads above water trying to do the job they are meant to be doing.

My view is that council have similar issues policing airBNBers - they are cash strapped & overworked. Unless the neighbours complain about excessive noise, parking in guest bays, to many comings & goings, then they will turn a blind eye.

They may jawbone occasionally, but actually taking action against offenders is unlikely. And they do appreciate the extra tourist dollars spent locally. The only $$$ losers are hotels, B&Bs, etc, and possibly immediate neighbours who may have a v. slight loss of amenity. Everyone else is a winner.