Is there a builder/chippy in the house (Brisbane)

[beachside]

There is a house for sale which I know has some old termite damage in the kitchen window frame and toilet door frame - got the basic details from a P&B company who previously did an inspection on the house for a previous buyer...... I got lucky that I got that much out of them.

Agent has asked for my unconditional offer by tomorrow, owner wants to sell. I was going to pass it up but thought if I get it cheap enough I'll take a punt on extent of damage. I live interstate so can't have another look first, only had a quick glance originally and not being aware of termite issue then.

By frame I suspect the inspector means jamb/architrave around the aluminium window, and door jamb/achitrave as studs would not be visible. House is BV on slab on ground, built 1993. Logan area, Brisbane.

Damage is described as extensive, but I assume this is in their eyes as I can't image the owners allowing it to be eaten away in front of them to the point where it is obvious to those with less than a keen eye.

A few things to consider. Is the frame (jamb/artitrave) that has been eaten likely to be soft pine (painted), and the achilles heel of the house as I assume house frame would be hardwood or TP, or hardier maple which I assume was used up until pine took over. Is there a reasonable chance the house frame may be untouched.

How did the termites get in?? Both areas of damage are in rooms where plumbing exists, so possibly around plumbing access points not cemented in thoroughly and just attracted to a little moisture from leaks in the area. (I am no expert in these areas). There are a lot of shrubs around the house touching the building so this is another consideration for entry, and possibly soil too high against base of the walls. Gate post is another possibility if attached to wall. Otherwise slab cracks???

So what is the likelihood of house frame damage compared to the identified door and window jamb/architrave damage? I assume P&B included a look in the roof space, although I think there is insulation which might inhibit inspection.

Inspection also identified live termite damage in the back fence - which needs replacing. I suspect there are a lot of termites in fences and old remaining stumps of trees/shrubs in the gardens in QLD.

Ta

 

[handyandy]

Hi Beachside

Built in 1993 - frame is likely to be pine or Oregon either of which termites love.

We are just repairing a house that has been attacked by termites. We were changing over light switches and found termite activity. Turned out that the whole frame around the backdoor was eaten out. There was absolutely no external evidence of the termite activity. They didn't touch the actual backdoor and window frame as it's western red ceder.

I was surprised that they hadn't hit the bathroom area as there was a lot of wet area damage form years ago that I didn't repair at the time. I suspect that they didn't go there because when I purchased the house I had it sprayed with Dieldrin (1986).

Dieldrin is no longer used so a 1993 house is unlikely to have been sprayed with an organochloride. Any treatment used in 1993 would have lost it's potency within 10 years.

What is the distance between the kitchen and toilet? There is likely to be a connection between the two areas of damage and the further apart the areas are the more damage there could be.

You have identified plenty of areas where the termites could gain excess. If the yard has termites then they are active in the area and are continually exploring for new foraging areas. This continual activity is how they randomly wander into the house and invite themselves to dinner. lol

As you say any small but continual water trail will readily lead them to the source. I have read that they can also sense areas where wood is continually wet or damp, so even is there isn't a water trail to the house they still come exploring.

Based on the RE chasing you I suspect that the damage is extensive meaning that everybody on the ground has been put off by the extent of the damage.

One thing to look for is discarded termite wings in the roof cavity. If you have wings in the roof cavity then it means that they are swarming from the house and as such the termite have extensive nests in the frame.

Some further reading matter

http://www.termite.com.au/termites.html

http://www.termatrac.com/home-owners/learn-about-termites/signs-termite-infestation/

Big gamble on your part particularly without an inspection.

Regards

 

[beachside]

Thanks Andy, scary. I think I will be tapping all walls and timber work in future.

It actually went to auction this morning - hence agent wanted my offer

I just laughed as the price crept up and the agent still wanted me to make a bid which was beyond what I was prepared to pay without termite damage.

It has an end value of around $265 if tidied up without a full reno, maybe $270-$280k with full reno looking shmicko! Very small basic box shape 4x1.

It would need about $18-$19k spent to bring it up to $265k value if doing most of the work yourself (and my time is worth $$), $32-$39k retail value. This includes adding a patio, 2x a/c, ceiling fans etc, replacing gutters and fences just for starters to bring it up to comparable features of most other properties nearby.......but it would still be smaller!

Its price was sitting at $220k when the agent decided no point being on the phone to me ...and still not on the market. I told her the owners should take the money and run . I am not sure if termite damage had been declared or other bidders were aware. (I only become aware when agent mentioned to me a contract had crashed a couple of weeks ago on the P&B and I asked her why ...maybe this was her way of bringing the issue up)

I figured it had to be an O/O bidding as they usually pay more as they are not looking to make money out of it, but no it was an investor! Obviously looking at the RR estimated at around $325 pw (around neutral) and not from adding value by fixing it up .....or repairs needed, or trying to sell it further down the track with termite damage. So at that price they would not be far of the price all up they could buy a house in good condition not needing all the frigging around, and this is not taking the termite damage into account! Although I understand how some people (mainly O/O) do not take their own labour into account when doing repairs and reno, just an opportunity to enter the market a little cheaper. House had been to auction once already and passed in, with little interest from anyone in between. As the house was chockablock with furniture it was impossible to inspect properly - for general condition or termites behind the walls, no attempt to present for sale.

Everyone looks at "investment" differently. I often shake my head at the prices "investors" bid at auction for houses needing work, most not doing their figures properly and wont make money unless they sit on it for CG, which they could do with any property. I mentioned to a seasoned agent a few days a go how I was amazed at the price a house sold for at auction a few weeks ago needing a full reno including resheet all ceilings and a bobcat needed in the yard, some termite damage (extent unknown), small house with an end value of $280-$300k and sold for $250k. She said it would have sold for this price because of all the work needed and tax deductions available - buy for deductions, and CG in the long term. WTF I said an expense is still an expense even after claiming on tax (and in this case it would not have been a tax deduction but adjusting the cost base when selling as repairs would be needed before renting out - other than some depreciation for the reno claimable over next few years).