Is this PM greedy or what?

[Andrew_A]

Impressive, charging for inspections seems a little over the top!

 

[wylie]

I wonder if there is a charge for breathing?

 

[Jen_PFR]

I wonder if there is a charge for breathing?

There will actually be two breathing charges - one for breathing IN, one for breathing OUT.

 

[Jaggannath]

I think if you've never had to hassle them to complete something, and everything is done professionally, then sometimes they're worth the money. If not, however, the fees would make me angry. Agreed those fees seem a little excessive

 

[Deltaberry]

the good thing is one can vote with their feet

ta
rolf

I do that by investing in high yield, low interest rate, high GDP growth, low salary jurisdictions where PMs are happy if I feed drop them a little.

Let me guess, the OP invested in a placed called Australia?

 

[Evachange]

Well, I had 3 properties in WA and I rember the fee's to be about the same.

 

[MIW]

I just received a management agreement renewal notice from my PM who are currently managing my two IPs, and almost fell off the chair after reading their fees. The sad thing is I have been with them for years and they said these fees are not negotiable. What do you think? I won't name and shame, but they are in WA.

Per IP:
Agreed Management fee: 9%
Property Condition Report: $247.5
Final Bond inspection: $132
Inventory reports: $165
Routine Inspection reports: $88
Lease renewal: $132
Annual Financial Summary: $0 (surprise)
Court Attendance: $85 Max $450
Postage, Petties, Tel, Fax, Email: A WOOPING $16.5/mth
Charge for attendance at meetings: $85/hr Max $170
Advertisting and Marketing: max $200 / fortnight in print media
Internet ad: $66 / occassion
For Lease sign: $88 / occassion
Title search: $24
Strata Plan search $24
Tenant Enquiry Fees:
(i) $12/person / enquiry for tenancy database checks
(ii) $12 / person / enquiry / credit checks
Other:
(i) Preparation of court doc: $88
(ii) Preparation of insurance paperwork: $166

There is no doubt that low fees is not the only thing I should look at, however, if a PM becomes so greedy and not willing to maintain their existing customers database. See you later.

Wow! It seems a bit excessive.
The agency I use is:
Joyce Property Investments
1050 Hay St, PO Box 538 WEST PERTH WA 6872
Ph: 9429 7700 Fax: 9429 7722
Management Fee: 7.5% + GST
Inspection fee: $50 + GST
Postage: $5.00 + GST
Cannot remember others but certainly I do not have the fees like you above. I am sure there's a letting fee, and small yearly statement fee, and court fees. Advertising I think is free. So what are they charging for 9% management fee when all the other fees are itemised?
I should point out that I have been with them since 2007 and I have the first and only tenant living there so my expenses have been minimal.....
Ring them up and see what they say? good luck

 

[Sez]

There will actually be two breathing charges - one for breathing IN, one for breathing OUT.

Not to mention the pain and suffering charges for every time they take a call or respond to an email ! Hey Goofy, book me a seat on those flights too!!!

 

[Don K]

Not to mention the pain and suffering charges for every time they take a call or respond to an email ! Hey Goofy, book me a seat on those flights too!!!

No PM will be left in VIC sometime soon.

 

[Yerfdog]

Unfortunately self managed could be easy for others but definitely not my cup of tea, don't really have the time and energy to deal rental issues. I rather to have some professional running the business for me and I pay them a fair amount.

 

[Yerfdog]

Not to mention the pain and suffering charges for every time they take a call or respond to an email ! Hey Goofy, book me a seat on those flights too!!!

I think end up WA investors will still be better off to have their properties managed by Eastern states PM, even buying you a few return flights to do routine inspections.

 

[shuggy]

Unfortunately self managed could be easy for others but definitely not my cup of tea, don't really have the time and energy to deal rental issues. I rather to have some professional running the business for me and I pay them a fair amount.

I also think you'd be better off self managing with those fees which must be close to 25-30% of gross annual rent, it's easy to see why so many WA people invest in property on the East coast. There must be a huge market for a property manager in WA that charged fair rates. Imagine if someone set up a biz only specialising in property management with a flat rate of 10% ... i think they'd wake up with a horse's head next to them for under cutting the cartel.

 

[redwing]

I just received a management agreement renewal notice from my PM who are currently managing my two IPs, and almost fell off the chair after reading their fees. The sad thing is I have been with them for years and they said these fees are not negotiable. What do you think? I won't name and shame, but they are in WA.

Per IP:
Agreed Management fee: 9%
Property Condition Report: $247.5
Final Bond inspection: $132
Inventory reports: $165
Routine Inspection reports: $88
Lease renewal: $132
Annual Financial Summary: $0 (surprise)
Court Attendance: $85 Max $450
Postage, Petties, Tel, Fax, Email: A WOOPING $16.5/mth
Charge for attendance at meetings: $85/hr Max $170
Advertisting and Marketing: max $200 / fortnight in print media
Internet ad: $66 / occassion
For Lease sign: $88 / occassion
Title search: $24
Strata Plan search $24
Tenant Enquiry Fees:
(i) $12/person / enquiry for tenancy database checks
(ii) $12 / person / enquiry / credit checks
Other:
(i) Preparation of court doc: $88
(ii) Preparation of insurance paperwork: $166

There is no doubt that low fees is not the only thing I should look at, however, if a PM becomes so greedy and not willing to maintain their existing customers database. See you later.

What part of WA yerfdog?

Metro or country?

 

[petalop]

I'd be asking the PM exactly what the 9% covers in the first place. It surely can't just be for the (probable) automatic deposit of rent into your bank account. Usually it covers all of those other things, except perhaps for advertising and court doc prep.

 

[boods99]

It literally takes a LOT longer than 10 seconds - there is the imputing of invoices, checking statements, and a lot of other general accounting practices... A landlord run can take a few hours each time (depending on the number of course - that would be for a run of approx 100 properties) so $3.00 isn't that much when you think about the labour involved. Agents will continue to charge this because we are getting beaten down in our fees everywhere else and despite the common misconception that we don't do a hell of a lot i can tell you that it is 12:04am and i am still working!

So are you saying that if I was to opt out of receiving the statement, thus saving me the cost of said statement, you would not need to input any of the invoices pertaining to my IP? Would you still need to employ general accounting practices in relation to my property?


Beaten down in your fees? The fee I pay has not been reduced in the 8 odd years I have had IP's. % of gross collections is still the same. Granted, I am in WA and dont know much about resi PMing over east.

I'm sure you all work hard for your money, as most do...that's why you get your 8.5% + GST. All the other stuff should be a cost of doing business. We can't blame you though, it is considered good corporate governance to maximise your profits and shareholder wealth, and admittedly I do the same in my business.

I think that most people would have a problem with the winging and crying poverty from PM's trying to justify their fees. Tell it like it is. You are trying to make the most profit possible and will continue to do so until you reach the threshold as to what Joe public will be willing to pay. It's nothing to be ashamed of. It's business.

Boods

 

[sanj]

is this momentum wealth? i cant think of another buyers agent that also manages property

 

[Dazz]

I think that most people would have a problem with the winging and crying poverty from PM's trying to justify their fees. Tell it like it is. You are trying to make the most profit possible and will continue to do so until you reach the threshold as to what Joe public will be willing to pay. It's nothing to be ashamed of. It's business.

So, in short, by definition :

Market rates are reached when.....

the decibel level of the whinging and moaning from PM's crying poor = the decibel level of the whinging and moaning from Landlord's screaming blue murder.

.....meanwhile, Tenants sit there paying 2 or 3% gross yields and couldn't give a fig about any of it.

 

[jaycee]

And people wonder why I self manage !

1. I almost can't afford the fees
2. I'm They aren’t managing them properly "I don't know why you're so worried about it, it's no big deal" (when my 1st ever tenant's lease expired and I asked the PM if she contacted them about a new lease .. then asked can we when she told me she hadn't. Last dealing with a PM I had was receiving the1st mth's rent statement, and seeing the obvious mistake in the management fee charged, lack and rent wasn't paid.... despite numerous requests from on email & replies to SMS for the PM to call me, I got no response until I sent an email asay8ing I am terminating our agreement and I strangely got a call 5 minutes later from an upset surprised and disappointed poor young lady asking me what ever could possibly be wrong ? We don't want rocket scientists, or complexities, but I couldn't have a civil business relationship like this...

 

[Chomp]

EVERYTHING is negotiable, up to a point, I think they are testing you to see if you are lazy.

I would respond with "Give me your most competetive quote to do the work first up, if this is it I will be comparing it with the others I will be getting, if they are considerably lower than yours, I will be NEGOTIATING with THEM"

Make sure you do get other quotes though, the old" familiarity breeds contempt" comes to mind.

Chomp

 

[boods99]

So, in short, by definition :

Market rates are reached when.....

the decibel level of the whinging and moaning from PM's crying poor = the decibel level of the whinging and moaning from Landlord's screaming blue murder.

.....meanwhile, Tenants sit there paying 2 or 3% gross yields and couldn't give a fig about any of it.

hehe...yep pretty much.

Equilibrium is reached.

Won't stop the tenants from trying it on for a 1.5% gross yield though.