John Burley

Discussion in 'Original Property Investor Forum Archive' started by WebBoard, 17th May, 2002.

  1. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    From: Mike .


    Opinions on John Burley
    From: Gareth
    Date: 05 Dec 2000
    Time: 19:26:18

    Hi there,

    I'm a newcomer to the world of real estate investing. Im 19 and have been interested now for about 6 months, although I can't take any action (obviously). I have Jan Somers' book "Creating Wealth Through Investment Property" and just purchased John Burley's new book. Unfortunately, I couldn't make it to any of John's recent seminars.

    I'm interested to hear the opinions of RE Investors on the differences between the teachings Jan Somers and John Burley. I find it confusing when John Burley says he never negatively gears a rental property.....that he only buys positively geared properties. But Jan Somers' strategy is based entirely on negatively gearing investment properties.

    Although I can see the advantages of negative gearing, it doesn't seem to make sense if it's possible to purchase positively geared properties.

    Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated. I would be extremely grateful to hear from Jan Somers (I'm not sure if you read this forum).

    Thanks, Gareth
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  2. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Richard

    Reply: 1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley
    From: Richard
    Date: 06 Dec 2000
    Time: 21:50:57

    I went to John Burley's first 2 hour seminar in Sydney ($65) last month. Very basic stuff, too many corny jokes and too much Yankee Ra Ra for my taste. Thought it was going to be a lot more in depth but then what do you want for $65. What did prick my ears up was the tit bits about real estate investing and how you can get out of negatively geared property. Well this was for me - the real facts about real estate. Like a flash it was out with the Amex and over with $2650 for a two day seminar the following week.

    Well the first day was a duplicate of the 2 hour session - word for word, just more corny jokes and nothing about real estate investing, no indepth info. They handed out badly photocopied bits of paper that had no relevance unless you had such little understanding about finance. By this time I was fuming, having paid over a lot of money. I voiced my opinion with the MD who assured me that everything would be ok the second day so I stuck it out.

    The second day (morning) was almost as bad as the first. Nothing about real estate investing only a long drawn out presentation about saving money when you travel using a somewhat dodgy American Travel Agents card that costs an arm and a leg to buy! Until fifteen minutes before lunch when he spent the time making a joke out of it his real estate deals. Ah ha. Now for the interesting stuff - maybe it was worth the money. But no. No details just crumbs spread around like you would to catch mice. Then he started to talk about his real estate investing boot camp. It then struck me. He wasn't going to get into any depth about real estate investing. He wanted everyone to pay more money to front up at his "camp".

    My safety valve blew at that point and I asked for my money back. They had made a guarantee that if you were not satisfied you could get your money back. I have to admit, and to the organisers credit, I had the money returned within half an hour.

    Would I go to boot camp. No. Would I pay so much money for another seminar. Once bitten twice shy. I'll try going it alone. A book or two and some help from friends might be a better option.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  3. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    NIF

    Reply: 1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley
    From: NIF
    Date: 08 Dec 2000
    Time: 15:54:52

    I was disapointed to hear Richard's account of a JB seminar, as I'd feared they might be like that.

    Now I'm sure there are plenty of good points to learn at these (& other) seminars, & I'll be going to some.

    But sometimes I wonder:
    (1) If most of the info could be acquired more cheaply by reading books, forums, attending discussion groups etc.
    (2) Why the presenters aren't heli-skiing, touring the world or doing whatever they enjoy with their riches, rather than being in the business of presenting seminars ?


    The only answer to (2) I can come up with is that they enjoy presenting seminars & the associated celebrity status/hero worship ? Which is fair enough, but if this is so, why run them in the way Richard describes.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  4. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Crystal

    Reply: 1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley's New Book
    From: Crystal
    Date: 10 Dec 2000
    Time: 01:09:16

    Has anyone purchased Burleys new book? Is it worth a read or is it a beginners book?

    Regards, Crystal
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  5. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Richard

    Reply: 1.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley's New Book
    From: Richard
    Date: 10 Dec 2000
    Time: 13:54:39

    If you are new to finance, putting money aside for your retirement, need advice on saving a few extra dollars and don't won't much detail then buy the book. Otherwise, there are better books around. Richard
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  6. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Owen

    Reply: 1.1.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley's New Book
    From: Owen
    Date: 11 Dec 2000
    Time: 09:51:55

    I agree although I have to say that he explains the principles behind the basic requirements of being wealthy really well. I don't know if he just clicked with me because I have read all this kind of stuff before. What he said (and how he said it) has made me really get my basic stuff in order so it has helped.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  7. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Rambada

    Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley's New Book
    From: Rambada
    Date: 12 Dec 2000
    Time: 14:18:19

    I'd like to know what those better books are? Burley tackles the basics and gives his informed and tested view on RE investing as well as his favoured strategy of wraps. Is his strategy right for me or you? Only the individual can decide that. I view knowledge as power and any educational material from a person with runs on the board is worth a read. As for rehashing basics - good. By profession I am Paramedic, if I forget basics - you are dead. The same applies financially and even though we invest in RE via different strategies, we have to continually maintain the basics. For me I found it an excellent read, one of the best,a nuts and bolts approach some of which I will use some I wont. But at least I can make an informed choice and the day we stop learning what choices there are is the day we become very average investors. Buy it, its valuable educational material.

    Rambada
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  8. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Gee Cee

    Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley NEW SEMINARITES
    From: Gee Cee
    Date: 07 Dec 2000
    Time: 08:06:47

    Maybe Steve, Geoff1, Andrew, The Wife, Myself and a few others from the forum should get together and run a few seminars.

    (I have always wanted a Positive Cashflow Business.)

    Gee Cee
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  9. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    The Wife

    Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley NEW SEMINARITES
    From: The Wife
    Date: 07 Dec 2000
    Time: 12:06:46

    Gee Cee

    WHAT A PARTY!!!

    Lmbo
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  10. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Geoff1

    Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley NEW SEMINARITES
    From: Geoff1-come on up!
    Date: 10 Dec 2000
    Time: 08:40:05

    Hey ...not a bad idea I can organise one in Brisbane you all can fly up on "Virgin" and TW can fly on... "Impulse"!!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  11. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Scott G

    Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley NEW SEMINARITES
    From: Scott G
    Date: 11 Dec 2000
    Time: 16:25:06

    Geoff,

    When are you running another seminar? I'd be interested in attending!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  12. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Geoff1

    Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley NEW SEMINARITES
    From: Geoff1-new web site
    Date: 12 Dec 2000
    Time: 07:46:27

    Hi Scott,

    I've eventually got my own web-site ...it's still a bit rough... but the info is there at...

    http://www.financialsuccesssystems.com

    tell me what you think about it and any suggestions to improve.

    Thanks
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  13. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Albie

    Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley; message re:Geoff1's website
    From: Albie
    Date: 12 Dec 2000
    Time: 20:31:30

    Hi Geoff1 Great to hear that you've now got a website, I'm looking forward to what you have to say, however I just tried to get into it, and it was a no-go for me. I'll try again of course, but thought you'd like to know about the glitch.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  14. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Geoff1

    Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley; message re:Geoff1's website
    From: Geoff1
    Date: 13 Dec 2000
    Time: 12:15:33

    Hi Albie,

    Dont know whats wrong...it works for me.

    Remember there is no au just com and 3 sss !

    The whole address is:

    http://www.financialsuccesssystems.com

    email me if you have a problem at doidge@dataline.net.au

    How do I insert a link here?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  15. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Nigel W

    Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley NEW SEMINARITES
    From: NigelW
    Date: 07 Dec 2000
    Time: 08:58:58

    Gee Cee

    While your comment is probably half in jest I'd urge you to give it serious consideration.

    As you're probably aware Geoff1 does in fact run seminars.

    I have to say his was without doubt the absolute best value for money education I've ever spent. His 8 hour seminar is jam packed with practical useful stuff. It's not just Geoff up there - he gets what Napoleon Hill would call his "mastermind forum" up there ie accountant, quantity surveyor, town planner, lawyer etc to all give you great info.

    I think real "nuts and bolts" info about how to add value to property, buy well, do your research, contracting tricks, figuring out whether you can or can't develop/subdivide etc a block is what most people are looking for rather than the ra ra personal development stuff.

    The best thing was that he was out there doing the investment thing in my market - Brisbane.

    I'd welcome a similar seminar from those who've got the years of experience and own many properties.

    N.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  16. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    ???

    Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley NEW SEMINARITES
    From: A Convert
    Date: 08 Dec 2000
    Time: 16:06:33

    I agree, Geoff1 seminars was full of practical advice and no b..s.. etc I'm sure if the rest of you got together and ran a simple presentation on your practical experiences we would all benefit, after all everyone does investing "their way" negative gear, positive gear, shares etc. No way is perfect but we can all learn from your mistakes not just what worked.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  17. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Jeremy

    Reply: 2
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley
    From: Jeremy
    Date: 06 Dec 2000
    Time: 11:38:25

    My .02c worth of advice. The 'grown up' property market - commercial/industrial operates solely on basic 'Burley' principles. What he preaches is not rocket science, and in fact (in the US) it is almost impossible now to explain to people why you would want to lose money on a property. Negatively geared property is almost (now) an uniquely Australian idea, as we are so competitive in buying residential property. IE Higher purchase price = lower yield (given equal rents) I would suggest to you to start with what you can afford (probably one or two) refi-able properties, and then buy a traditional one in a supposed high cap growth area. That way you would be able to assess after say 5-10 years which works better for you.

    Use an overall appraoch to your property costs. One can make $50/week and the other might cost $50-60/wk. With a foot in each camp how can you go wrong? My suggestion is to start with a foot in the camp that won't dent your lifestyle (and may even enhance it!) Be aware of people who say 'you must do this', or 'this way is the only way'. Both have huge merit, and in Jan's (Aussie traditional) way you need a job to cover bills.

    The US way you have a job for pocket money and property pays itself (and you) to buy more. The downside is with good quality (expensive/low yield) property you DO get better tenants/less down time/ dramas as compared with cheaper property with (sometimes) dodgier tenants. Which leads back to supply/demand. As my US realtor says 'it's not a question of which property to buy, it's just buy property' Learning that at 19 you should do investing means you've won the game already. Good luck!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  18. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Peter Soll

    Reply: 2.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley
    From: Peter Soll
    Date: 05 Dec 2000
    Time: 22:28:21

    The following figures are what I estimate my business partners receive on a positively geared property

    Cost of property $62 500

    Initial cash outlay (including upfront costs)= $12 000. Loan required = $56 000.

    First year return with first home owners grant = $8500.

    First year return without First home owners Grant = $4 000.

    Monthly profit = $200 Term of investment 25 years

    Value of investment with no investment plan after 25 years = $50 000

    Value of investment if profits were immediately invested in a managed fund during the 25 year term at 10% = $280 000

    As above but at 16% = $791 503

    As above but at 22% = $2 267 742

    If you purchased the same property at $62 500 and negatively geared the property assuming the property doubled every 7 years (if your lucky) the property would be valued at $218 750. Minus expenses for the 25 years ($68 000 approx). The true value of the negatively geared property is $150 750.

    Which figure do you like? (please note the above figures are quick estimates. I advise you seek advice on the true returns)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  19. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Gary

    Reply: 2.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley
    From: Gary
    Date: 06 Dec 2000
    Time: 07:07:36

    Got a better plan for you. Take your inital 12,500 and get a 29,000 margin loan against it giving you 41,500. Then put that straight into your magical 22% a year fund and you end up with just under 6 million in 25 years. If you can find a fund that returns 22% a year after tax, for 25 years, why would you be stuffing around with property? And what exactly do you live on for the 25 years while you a reinvesting all your income?

    Gary
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017
  20. WebBoard

    WebBoard Guest

    Peter Soll

    Reply: 2.1.1.1
    From: Mike .


    Re: Opinions on John Burley
    From: Peter Soll
    Date: 06 Dec 2000
    Time: 11:18:53

    Talk to people who have had to do margin calls in their loans. The property gives you guaranteed income which is a lot more secure. It is a leverage tool just like margin lending. However this is a more secure leverage tool.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5th Apr, 2017