Landlord experience - in Tenant years

[Dazz]

Is that advice a piece of advice or an insult ?

I can categorically state that it is most definitely not advice jaycee - especially not to you.

Are you going to restrict your reception and my response to insult only ?? It couldn't possibly be received as ;

• a statement perhaps, or
• a word to the wise, or
• something casually passed along from someone who had been there to someone who had yet to go through that experience....without implying a truckload of emotional baggage.

None of those are viable alternatives ??

Why are you that insecure in your own position and reception that you would choose to restrict yourself to either taking a forum statement as either advice and/or insult only ??

 

[Dazz]

wouldnt it be fair/needed to weight people who self manage vs those who have property managers?

No, it wouldn't. This was addressed more than 2 weeks ago at post # 14.

The question of the poll (thanks GeoffW) was simply to ascertain how long you have owned tenancies for.

Whether you decide to palm off {all / some / none} of the PM duties does not change the fact that you have owned those Tenancies and been a principal to those Lease deals.

Your responsibilities as defined by law are in no way diminished if you choose to pay some to act on your behalf. You, as the landlord, are fully in the sling for anything that happens. The Principal of the agency will not accept any responsibility that the Landlord has to bear. Read your agency agreement if you don't believe me.

The PMs are off to the side as one of the parties agents. They are not a principal in any leasing deal.

 

[jaycee]

I can categorically state that it is most definitely not advice jaycee - especially not to you.

Are you going to restrict your reception and my response to insult only ?? It couldn't possibly be received as ;

• a statement perhaps, or
• a word to the wise, or
• something casually passed along from someone who had been there to someone who had yet to go through that experience....without implying a truckload of emotional baggage.

None of those are viable alternatives ??



Why are you that insecure in your own position and reception that you would choose to restrict yourself to either taking a forum statement as either advice and/or insult only ??

Sure, why not ......

 

[JIT]

Hehe, Dazz this is what happens when you start polls!

 

[Dazz]

I know JIT. Everybody's "special". Everybody wants to deviate off the question and answer something else.

Yeah, but what about....

Oh, that doesn't apply to me....

I think maths is silly, I've invented my own way of adding up....

I employ a PM, so I'm no longer a Landlord....


Dealing with the public. You can see why normal folk don't do it for too long.

 

[skater]

I guess your topic is "landlord experience".

That is what the thread title is called.

If the topic was "property investment experience" - then perhaps mine would be more relevant, as it gives credit for people owning multiple properties for longer periods of time, and weights multiple properties higher.

Hmmm......no......people with multiple properties are more than covered in the poll as it stands.

But if we go with 'landlord experience' - wouldnt it be fair/needed to weight people who self manage vs those who have property managers?

i.e. I've never self-managed. So how can my "31 tenant years" compare to a landlord who has self-managed that entire time - their "31 tenant years" would be 10 times what mine is?

Again no! The topic is "Landlord Experience". You have been a Landlord for x number of years regardless of whether you self manage or not. If, on the otherhand the topic was Property Management experience, then I agree that the Landlord in your example of 31 tenant years would have significant more experience in Managing a property (if they self managed) than another Landlord that had double the years, but used a PM.

The question of the poll (thanks GeoffW) was simply to ascertain how long you have owned tenancies for.

Whether you decide to palm off {all / some / none} of the PM duties does not change the fact that you have owned those Tenancies and been a principal to those Lease deals.

That is exactly how I read the poll.

 

[MIW]

I don't think you've done the calculation correctly, or maybe I'm missing something.

After reading your interview (good job, btw) it seems that you have 14 properties. If you had held all of those 14 properties for the entire 12 years, then you would have 168 (14 x 12). If, on the other hand, you built your portfolio as you went then the first property would count for 12 years, the second for, maybe 11 years, the third for perhaps 9 years, etc. Then you would add the total for each property to get your combined total.

This is not a critisism, as you have done very well. Or, like I said, maybe there's a huge amount that I missed that needs to be added into the total.

Yes, thanks for that, I re-read the question and re-did the calculation, so the answer is 116 years in residential only (I've also included the house we sold)...

 

[MIW]

I know JIT. Everybody's "special". Everybody wants to deviate off the question and answer something else.

Yeah, but what about....

Oh, that doesn't apply to me....

I think maths is silly, I've invented my own way of adding up....

I employ a PM, so I'm no longer a Landlord....


Dealing with the public. You can see why normal folk don't do it for too long.

That's what I meant when I said we are either leaders or followers....
Looks like I'm a reconfirmed follower as I only answered the question (even though I calculated the answer wrong - so there's hope for some, don't write us all off).

 

[SamSiam]

what if the tenant didnt pay.....is that still included ?

 

[redwing]

50-99 years currently leading the poll

 

[Seeka]

I would be in favour of adding 'Tenant Years' when posting answers in other threads where it would be relevant.

eg I am interested in how often claims are made on landlord insurance. An answer of "Ten claims in '59 tenant years'", compared with "zero claims in '8 tenant years'" puts both answers into better perspective.

 

[kathryn d]

I would be in favour of adding 'Tenant Years' when posting answers in other threads where it would be relevant.

eg I am interested in how often claims are made on landlord insurance. An answer of "Ten claims in '59 tenant years'", compared with "zero claims in '8 tenant years'" puts both answers into better perspective.

Our Landlord experience is 200 years.
We have made 0 claims on landlord insurance
We have made 1 claim on building insurance.(property written off due to tenant fire)


Not sure knowing how many insurance claims a landlord has made will help you ?

 

[wobbycarly]

Our Landlord experience is 200 years.
We have made 0 claims on landlord insurance
We have made 1 claim on building insurance.(property written off due to tenant fire)


Not sure knowing how many insurance claims a landlord has made will help you ?

What about "bad tenants" per tenant years? I'd reckon your ratio would be getting up there!!

Other ratios that might be interesting in the broader context:

• Number of evictions per tenant year
• Number of court cases per tenant years
• Number of tenants per tenant year (?)
• Number of emergency callouts per tenant year

So more than just insurance claims - these types of ratios in a more general sense indicate the overall landlord experience.

 

[kathryn d]

What about "bad tenants" per tenant years? I'd reckon your ratio would be getting up there!!

Other ratios that might be interesting in the broader context:

• Number of evictions per tenant year
• Number of court cases per tenant years
• Number of tenants per tenant year (?)
• Number of emergency callouts per tenant year

So more than just insurance claims - these types of ratios in a more general sense indicate the overall landlord experience.

Or..how may here live solely on rent?
That may be interesting too. How much income is really enough?

As to your other questions...depends on the style of the landlord as well.
We attend to every concern our tenants have., because it is our property at stake.
We also know when it's time to evict, and which ones to follow up by taking them to court.

As for the amount of tenants, that doesn't tell anyone much either.
Our properties are marketed to very short term (1 day- 1 year) and others are less flexible.

 

[wobbycarly]

Or..how may here live solely on rent?
That may be interesting too. How much income is really enough?

As to your other questions...depends on the style of the landlord as well.
We attend to every concern our tenants have., because it is our property at stake.
We also know when it's time to evict, and which ones to follow up by taking them to court.

As for the amount of tenants, that doesn't tell anyone much either.
Our properties are marketed to very short term (1 day- 1 year) and others are less flexible.

Good points, and I must emphasise that I wasn't having a go at your properties or style of management. Simply pointing out that along with the "insurance claims per tenant year" ratio mentioned earlier, there are other ratios that could be shared.

If there was a thread about evicting tenants, then someone with a higher "evictions per tenant year" ratio will by definition have more experience than someone with a lower ratio.

Sorry - the nerd coming out in me - really this is all purely academic!

 

[Dazz]

Or..how may here live solely on rent?
That may be interesting too. How much income is really enough?

This is the true measure that I look for Kathryn.

The ability to passively provide enough income such that you dictate and decide how much you are going to spend to live without answering to people.

This is the fatal flaw of LOE. The Credit boys at the Bank decide whether you need to go back to work or not.

This property road we all travel on, no matter if we decide to keep all of our properties (like me) or sell down a few and keep the rest (like Ausprop) or decide to sell everything (like Brenda).....all ends up at the same point.....after paying for all of your debts and all of your outgoings, how much do you have left in your bucket, and is it enough to generate enough passive cash after paying tax to live off ??

This is the only way to truly have freedom. Relying on some other system whether someone else decides if you need to work or not is not freedom.

The capital side of things doesn't really come into it at all.....nor does the famous "how many IPs do you have".

Freedom is not proportional to how much you own, nor how many properties you control. It is only dependent on how much free, after-tax cash you have pouring into your pocket.

 

[kathryn d]

Very well said Dazz.

Every time a mortgage renewal comes due..like in a few months for us...I nervously hold my breath.
At their whim, we may no longer fit their lending criteria, and renewal not be offered. (aka known as 'too reliant on rent")

 

[Seeka]

Not sure knowing how many insurance claims a landlord has made will help you ?

Just interested, and for those of us who are less experienced, it may give some idea of the extent of problems that can occur. Similarly the ratios below would be enlightening too.

Sometimes uncertainty, or even fearfulness about potential tenant problems can lead to inaction on the part of investors, or lead them to taking overly conservative action. If a very experienced landlord, as gauged by 'tenant years', shares their experiences when answering in other threads, then it gives more weight to the experiences that they share. I felt this is part of what the thread is about, not only to find out the extent of experience on this thread alone, but to create a scale of sorts that gives appropriate credibility to experienced landlords when they respond on other threads.

What about "bad tenants" per tenant years? I'd reckon your ratio would be getting up there!!

Other ratios that might be interesting in the broader context:

• Number of evictions per tenant year
• Number of court cases per tenant years
• Number of tenants per tenant year (?)
• Number of emergency callouts per tenant year

So more than just insurance claims - these types of ratios in a more general sense indicate the overall landlord experience.

 

[MIW]

This property road we all travel on, no matter if we decide to keep all of our properties (like me) or sell down a few and keep the rest (like Ausprop) or decide to sell everything (like Brenda).....all ends up at the same point.....after paying for all of your debts and all of your outgoings, how much do you have left in your bucket, and is it enough to generate enough passive cash after paying tax to live off ??

This is the only way to truly have freedom. Relying on some other system whether someone else decides if you need to work or not is not freedom.

The capital side of things doesn't really come into it at all.....nor does the famous "how many IPs do you have".

Freedom is not proportional to how much you own, nor how many properties you control. It is only dependent on how much free, after-tax cash you have pouring into your pocket.

I would also add that as long as your passive income is higher than all your expenses than you are truly free.
Recently I actually thought of an idea of structuring our SMSF for the future. I think that if we had a big enough nest egg generating big income in SMSF and allowing for maximum contributions of $50K each year (for both spouses) than imagine where every 3-5 years we could buy another property outright.
Basically what I am trying to say is that in SMSF to buy a $450K IP (say
$468K with 4% fees) with say 3 years contributions ($127,500 after 15% tax) we would require extra $340,500 net in generated income (or net rent of $113,500 for each year - or $130,525 gross). Now 5% yield would require about $2,610,500 in Ips but we should add another 20% for expenses for maintenenace so $3,132,600.
Assume I still have about 14 years till year 60 and spouse similar time (to make calculation easy) then we could purchase another 4-5 IPs (assume all is constatnt just to see the big picture).
Now once 60 all IPs income is tax free so why sell?
I may have done incorrect calculations since it's late but I think if someone has a big enough nest egg in SMSF then they could accumulate properties much easier since it's lower tax environment, right?
It would be too hard to do it under different entities as they are taxed much higher and so are the contributions (I think that's why the government keeps lowering the contributions - and plans to cap it above $500K).
I suppose the number of IPs is not as relevant but whether enough after tax is generated and added to, to continue buying....
Would you borrow small amount say 25% LVR or 50% and keep purchasing more IPs and then sell few at 60 years of age instead?
Any suggestions, anyone?

 

[Andrew_A]

This deserves a new thread as it's a very interesting subject.

Coming into the living off income scenario is the fact that when you reach this stage of having earned enough assets of one kind or another you are probably a pretty valuable person to some part of the marketplace, hence earning $0 would be quite an achievement in a year. Which raises the scenario of working when you want for how long you want and earning a pretty good income as well, which makes those end goals so much closer.

So.. It doesn't need to me target income = 100k net p/a @ 5% net income = 2M clear in assets, but something more modest. Perhaps 50k flexible income from a job you enjoy doing for parts of the year and half the asset base = a far better outcome happiness wise than the idea of winning 2M in lotto to solve all your problems.