laws to stop urban sprawl in Adelaide

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From: Phillip Monk


There was an interesting article in the Advertiser (18/1) about a state govt. plan to limit urban sprawl in Adelaide. The plan is to prevent development north of Munno Para and south of Seaford Rise.

For those that don't know, Adelaide's suburbs run in a north-south corridor about 70km long, but only about on average 15km wide. The coast on one side and the Adelaide Hills on the other limit development east-west.

According to the article this is the first time this has been proposed for an Australian city.

I'd be interested to hear what others on the forum think about the pressure this might place on land prices and whether anyone has heard of it being done overseas, and what effect, if any, it had.

Cheers,
Phil.
 
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Reply: 1
From: Duncan M


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Read that.. thought the same thing.. "How can I benefit from this"..

Then figured I wanted faster capital growth than this limitation would
possibly deliver.. an existing immutable locked area that cant possibly not
experience capital growth in the long term is the Brighton/Hove/Kingston
Park/Somerton Park area, West of Brighton Road, south of Anzac Highway,
North of the start of the Hill (Seacombe Road).. massive demand, wish I had
brought there years ago.. still looking for a way in there in a fashion that
wont kill my cashflow.. We are thinking of maybe moving family residence
down there, if we have to have a largish mortgage payment maybe Brighton
would be a better place to be paying it rather than Woodcroft (spectacular
gains here though in the last 3 yrs!). The far north and deep south areas
have already had great growth in the last 2 yrs, I cant help but feel the
swings and roundabouts will quieten it down for the next few years..

I also noticed a comment from Barry Magain (REISA El Presidente) that he
likes the coastal strip at Christies Beach, either way, stick with the
quality coastal areas (very close to the beach, not set back more than a few
100 metres) and growth will be assured.. Perhaps excepting O'Sullivans Beach
from that with the Refinery and all there.. Moana looks nice, Port Willunga
if you wanted a little cheaper but be prepared to wait a little longer for
the growth..

There's still many pockets of undeveloped land that will provide all the
necessary space for quite some time (not sure on north, definitely much land
still available south), 20years+, just no major new suburbs..


Regards,


Duncan.


PS. JooJoo, just realised, no difference between cars and houses, we have a
large house, very nicely finished, cost us $256K.. We could quite happily
live in a $100K house if we had to.. We chose the lifestyle and are
incurring the costs therein.. I guess the one saving grace is that it will
(has) experience capital growth. Perhaps you could buy your new car and
renovate it every few years :)


-----Original Message-----
From: propertyforum Listmanager
[mailto:listmanager@bne003w.webcentral.com.au]
Sent: None
Subject: laws to stop urban sprawl in Adelaide


From: "Phillip Monk"

There was an interesting article in the Advertiser (18/1) about a state
govt. plan to limit urban sprawl in Adelaide. The plan is to prevent
development north of Munno Para and south of Seaford Rise.

For those that don't know, Adelaide's suburbs run in a north-south corridor
about 70km long, but only about on average 15km wide. The coast on one side
and the Adelaide Hills on the other limit development east-west.

According to the article this is the first time this has been proposed for
an Australian city.

I'd be interested to hear what others on the forum think about the pressure
this might place on land prices and whether anyone has heard of it being
done overseas, and what effect, if any, it had.

Cheers,
Phil.



To reply: mailto:propertyforum.20218@bne003w.webcentral.com.au
To start a new topic: mailto:propertyforum@bne003w.webcentral.com.au
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<TITLE>RE: laws to stop urban sprawl in Adelaide</TITLE>



<P>Read that.. thought the same thing.. "How can I =benefit from this"..


Then figured I wanted faster capital growth than this =limitation would possibly deliver.. an existing immutable locked area =that cant possibly not experience capital growth in the long term is =the Brighton/Hove/Kingston Park/Somerton Park area, West of Brighton =Road, south of Anzac Highway, North of the start of the Hill (Seacombe =Road).. massive demand, wish I had brought there years ago.. still =looking for a way in there in a fashion that wont kill my cashflow.. We =are thinking of maybe moving family residence down there, if we have to =have a largish mortgage payment maybe Brighton would be a better place =to be paying it rather than Woodcroft (spectacular gains here though in =the last 3 yrs!). The far north and deep south areas have already had =great growth in the last 2 yrs, I cant help but feel the swings and =roundabouts will quieten it down for the next few years..

I also noticed a comment from Barry Magain (REISA El =Presidente) that he likes the coastal strip at Christies Beach, either =way, stick with the quality coastal areas (very close to the beach, not =set back more than a few 100 metres) and growth will be assured.. =Perhaps excepting O'Sullivans Beach from that with the Refinery and all =there.. Moana looks nice, Port Willunga if you wanted a little cheaper =but be prepared to wait a little longer for the growth..

There's still many pockets of undeveloped land that =will provide all the necessary space for quite some time (not sure on =north, definitely much land still available south), 20years+, just no =major new suburbs..


Regards,



Duncan.



PS. JooJoo, just realised, no difference between cars =and houses, we have a large house, very nicely finished, cost us =$256K.. We could quite happily live in a $100K house if we had to.. We =chose the lifestyle and are incurring the costs therein.. I guess the =one saving grace is that it will (has) experience capital growth. =Perhaps you could buy your new car and renovate it every few years =:)


-----Original Message-----
From: propertyforum Listmanager
[mailto:listmanager=@bne003w.webcentral.com.au]
Sent: None
Subject: laws to stop urban sprawl in =Adelaide



From: "Phillip Monk" =<phil@synaxis.com.au>


There was an interesting article in the Advertiser =(18/1) about a state govt. plan to limit urban sprawl in Adelaide. The =plan is to prevent development north of Munno Para and south of Seaford =Rise.

For those that don't know, Adelaide's suburbs run in =a north-south corridor about 70km long, but only about on average 15km =wide. The coast on one side and the Adelaide Hills on the other limit =development east-west.

According to the article this is the first time this =has been proposed for an Australian city.


I'd be interested to hear what others on the forum =think about the pressure this might place on land prices and whether =anyone has heard of it being done overseas, and what effect, if any, it =had.

Cheers,
Phil.




To reply: mailto:pro=pertyforum.20218@bne003w.webcentral.com.au
To start a new topic: mailto:propertyf=orum@bne003w.webcentral.com.au
To login: http://bne003w.webcentral.com.au:80/~wb013




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Reply: 2
From: Michael Croft


Put very simply we have 4 choices with planning; 1. urban sprawl, 2. urban infill or increased density, 3. stop/limit breeding and immigration, 4. a combination of the above.

No matter which way planners go inner land close to facilities always remains popular. If all they do is stop the sprawl in Adelaide just watch land (land component) prices rise. It has every where else in the world, and be warned governments tax that gain savagely.

Michael Croft
 
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Reply: 3
From: Simon St John


Interesting article to hear about.

Also of interest is the same proposal from Noosa Shire Council were I am active.

They are debating a population cap which might have the same effect.

On the other hand, imagine the effect of putting an effective cap on development on local employment in the building trade (next to tourism, it's the biggest employer).

Nevertheless, would have to have an upward impact on prices.

These sort of suggestions are new in Australia as far as I am aware and have interesting implications for IP'ers.
 
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Sim

Administrator
Reply: 3.1
From: Sim' Hampel


On 1/21/02 1:28:00 PM, Simon St John wrote:
>
>They are debating a population
>cap which might have the same
>effect.

Oh no... a population cap and an urban sprawl cap could have quite the opposite effects.

In general terms, population growth is one of the main driving forces behind capital growth in property. This is simply due to supply and demand... when more people want to live in an area and are prepared to pay a higher premium for the ability to do so, then prices will rise.

If you constrain the area available for new housing, then assuming that the population still grows then the increased demand and increased density of development required as a result should in theory lead to higher property prices.

In contrast, by limiting the number of people who can live in a certain area (how do you do that effectively anyway ?), you remove some of the demand from natural population growth, which should see prices stabilise.

Now of course, the theory might not work quite this way... if the area is in such high demand because it is the most desirable place to live around... then people may be prepared to pay a premium to convince someone to give up their property and move out of town so that they can move in.

Similarly the sprawl limitations might not work as expected with increasing unemployment due to a significant slowdown in new housing projects (although some of this will be offset by an increase in urban redevelopment in existing suburbs). So if the population starts to shrink, then such limits would have little effect anyway.

Would be interesting to see what the "experts" have to say about the long term ramifications of such moves.

 
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Reply: 3.1.1
From: Jeremy Laws


Sorry people I have to comment on this. Urban?? Adelaide??? Adelaide consists of a shopping mall (in Sydney we would say a small strip), Micheles huge drawing business and a McDonalds 'restaurant' somewhere doesn't it? Seems a bit much to try and limit it I would have thought!
 
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Reply: 3.1.1.1
From: Michele B


*michele beats jeremy to death with an Adelaide street directory weighing 475g (the Sydney one weighs 700g!!)*
 
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Reply: 3.1.1.1.1
From: Michael G


hehe,

Here's a sample taken from the ADL street directory...

"Wattle St - where the Jones lives, with that cute dog, around the corner from Bob"

"Northern Rd - where Farmer Bill, grows those nice apples"

"Pine Close - you know, west where that new home is being built"

hehe, sorry couldnt resist.

Michael G
 
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Sim

Administrator
Reply: 3.1.1.1.1.1
From: Sim' Hampel


You people are all just jealous !

Sim': "Adelaide's travelling correspondent reporting to you from assignment in Sydney"

 
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Reply: 3.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Asy .


I just want to know whether the topic name has any relation to Jeremy?

hehehe

asy...


There are no problems, only solutions which have not yet been discovered.
 
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Reply: 3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Jeremy Laws


Asy,
I didn't actually get that joke initially. I should have taken the author of this post to task. How DARE they use my name!
Michele,
I didn't think I would have had to explain this to you, but there is such a thing as a maps scale. I am sure you will find your 475g (did you calibrate the scales??) at a 1:1 scale, and it would also, I am sure be half full of advertising. The Sydney one, I am equally certain would have no advertising, and come with a magnifying glass to help with the sheer volume it has to contain.
Micheal,
I didn't know you knew all the streets in Adelaide so well! You must have been studying! Not for very long obviously, but I was impressed with your intimate knowledge. Which street is best? Maybe you should concentrate on 2 of them (50%) and me the other 50%! Michele can develop the outer farming area!
 
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Reply: 3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Phillip Monk


Hi Jeremy,

I carefully used 'laws' in my original post with a lower case el to deliberately avoid confusing it with your name.

If you care to re-read my initial post, you'll see that the geography of Adelaide explains why it sprawls. But if you just wanted to make a couple of cheap jokes at Adelaide's expense, don't worry about doing that.

Regards,
Phil from Adelaide, where cash-flow positive deals abound and the median property price is up 20% in the last year...hehe
 
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Sim

Administrator
Reply: 3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Sim' Hampel


On 1/25/02 1:00:00 PM, Phillip Monk wrote:
>
>Phil from Adelaide, where
>cash-flow positive deals
>abound and the median property
>price is up 20% in the last
>year...hehe

Umm... sorry Phil - we obviously haven't all spoken to you yet. What you have just said is against the rules.

We don't tell people about Adelaide or how well we do on property there, okay ?

I've already had to admonish Michele_B several times over this kind of thing.

We just keep it quiet - I'd rather make lots of money out of my property quietly than by bragging about it if you get what I mean ;-)

 
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Reply: 3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Phillip Monk


Sim,

Fortunately I think even if you tell people that Adelaide is a great place to invest, they won't believe you.

After all, how could it be when they 'know' there's only two streets and a couple of paddocks?

Cheers,
Phil, just back from herding the sheep in downtown Adelaide.
 
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Reply: 3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Jeremy Laws


Phil,
Adelaide sprawls cos you get more cows they need more to eat! Simple;) I was battling badly re the laws thing so I more than appreciate your concern, and I thank you for it!
Sim,
Maaaaaatttteee! are trying to befriend these "hicks" cos you want to buy their milking machines at less than cost? You don't need farming communities Sim, you need your average bare bones basic IP. You can do it, even you can one day own a property that doesn't get a farming assistance package from the govt.

PS I do actually like Adelaide - but don't any of you ever - like even if you were being chased by wild Bison - ever tell anyone. Also Hobart and Cairns - just between you and I ok??
 
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Sim

Administrator
Reply: 3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Sim' Hampel


Well... I can see how you can get confused about the property in Adelaide... my properties are all big enough to be farms (average size 1000m2 each) ;-)

 
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