Leaving a rental, being taken to VCAT for damage - experiences?

[buckerooni]

Hi All,

The shoe is on the other foot with this one! Damaged door that was present upon occupancy but was not captured on condition report, now we're being asked to pay the $250 repair cost.

The situation:
- did not highlight damage on condition report (was not returned as it looked comprehensive and complete). It's also kinda hard to see as it's been repaired badly.
- damage not captured on the photos with the condition report (no previous conditon of door available)
- this is the only damage reported on the exit report. left the place cleaner than we found it.
- original PM has left who did remark on the door in conversations so the matter was assumed to be understood. Not captured in emails unfortunately so not worth much
- VCAT hearing booked in a few weeks

Any experience with how these play out? I can see both sides of the story, but with this one I feel we're probably up the creek without a paddle. The evidence doesn't work in our favour. Has anyone been in a similar situation? I'd be interested to know how it turned out.

 

[Scott No Mates]

What is the damage? A hole punched in the door, paint scrape, door ripped off its hinges?

Probably be able to argue fair wear and tear.

 

[buckerooni]

What is the damage? A hole punched in the door, paint scrape, door ripped off its hinges?

Probably be able to argue fair wear and tear.

hey SNM, it looks like the work of a dog scratching on the door over a period of time, which has been smeared over with a while calk of some sort to feebly hide the damage.

so yeah, beyond wear and tear I'm afraid

 

[thatbum]

Any experience with how these play out? I can see both sides of the story, but with this one I feel we're probably up the creek without a paddle. The evidence doesn't work in our favour. Has anyone been in a similar situation? I'd be interested to know how it turned out.

They're going to VCAT over $250 - jeez. The first court date is probably a procedural one anyway - chance to settle.

The evidence you've listed is all secondary to the best evidence available in this case - your own oral testimony. Your case is much stronger than you think.

But you should be looking to settle this.

 

[Perp]

I was thinking the same as thatbum - why does either party want to go to VCAT over $250?

Offer them $100 for it to go away.

 

[wylie]

- original PM has left who did remark on the door in conversations so the matter was assumed to be understood. Not captured in emails unfortunately so not worth much.

Can you get the original PM to put something in writing to support your case?

If not, I'd just settle. I'm with the others in thinking that $250 is a small amount to fight over.

 

[westminster]

Options

- offer to fix it yourself
- offer to settle for half the price
- fight it

I wouldn't fight it though, a day in court is worth more in your time.

I know you're in the right but I'm not certain it's worth it

 

[vaughan]

... did not highlight damage on condition report (was not returned as it looked comprehensive and complete)...

It's hard. Systems are put in place to make sure that everybody gets a fair go, then people can't be arsed to do their bit.

Had the damage been reported at the start, the outgoing tenant (with the pet) would have probably been asked to pair for the repair. I mean, somebody has to, right?

 

[buckerooni]

thanks for the feedback all, great to have advice.

I'll offer them $100 and see what happens. New people have already moved in so there's little chance of a patch up job by me.

I guess because it'll be the REA representing the landlord it's no time commitment from the people who stand to gain the most from this process.

no biggie, just means the taps in the laundry won't be getting gold plated for another few weeks

 

[chilliblue]

Just remember to make the offer in writing and advise that whilst you did not cause the damage, you did not follow up its documentation upon first inspection and for that error you are willing to pay $x amount in order to resolve the matter and not waste anyone's time or the landlord's cost's to attend the hearing.

 

[Sez]

Just remember to make the offer in writing and advise that whilst you did not cause the damage, you did not follow up its documentation upon first inspection and for that error you are willing to pay $x amount in order to resolve the matter and not waste anyone's time or the landlord's cost's to attend the hearing.

+1 - maintain innocence but try to settle for everyones sake . If it goes to VCAT the agent may also try to claim the $44.90 application fee which they can now claim AND be awarded in VIC (take note VIC landlords! I don't know how many PM's have figured this one out, recent change.).

 

[buckerooni]

my final offer at $132 (exactly 1/2 the quoted cost) was also rejected. will be putting on my best suit for Thursday's hearing! As there's no evidence to when the damage was done it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

 

[Perp]

my final offer at $132 (exactly 1/2 the quoted cost) was also rejected. will be putting on my best suit for Thursday's hearing! As there's no evidence to when the damage was done it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

They're crazy. They'll get nothin'. Keep us updated...

 

[S.T]

Well, you did try to make it reasonable for them! Good luck on Thursday.

 

[buckerooni]

wow, that was easier than expected, the judgment went in my favour with no costs

The Member's opening speil was basically 'we know how these things go but lets hear both sides anyway' - which at the time I interpreted as 'the tenant is going down' but perhaps it was the opposite...it ended with 'condition report is not the bible, mistakes happen, no cost to tenant'

Part of my testimony involved the previous PM (who no longer works for the agency) commenting in passing that the door damage was known about and because of this I didn't follow up with anything formally. The lack of continuity with the PMs had a bigger effect on the hearing than I thought.

The current PM merely presented the condition report and basically just followed the bouncing ball, it certainly wasn't an episode of Law and Order (that I was secretly hoping for).

I was expecting for a deal/settlement to be brokered and feel for the LL as they are no more to blame than me - we both made innocent mistakes. Overall this was a very simple, straight forward and very fair proceeding.

Ultimately it was the PM's poor advice that has cost them more money than necessary.

As a LL it really highlights the need to document everything (even if it's undamaged) to act as evidence if the condition of the item changes.

ok. off to the pub with my errr....'winnings'

 

[westminster]

Good to hear it worked out in the end.

 

[Perp]

wow, that was easier than expected, the judgment went in my favour with no costs

I'm not surprised, but congrats.

Ultimately it was the PM's poor advice that has cost them more money than necessary.

If the PM was encouraging them to take it to Tribunal, then yes, I agree. I do wonder, though - based on monitoring this forum - how often the PM tells the landlord "you're not going to win at Tribunal", only to have the landlord insist on pushing a hopeless case...

 

[Sez]

I am a PM, whenever I have one of 'those' landlords who want to claim several thousand off every tenant every time any tenant vacates I tell them straight up "ok, I will take the matter to tribunal as the tenants don't agree and feel that your claims are unfair, I did advise you that these items are considered wear and tear, are you happy to pay any application fees associated with applications and my attendance to VCAT?"


Often doesn't even get to VCAT . Surprised they didn't have photos from the condition report.

 

[landlubber]

Your positive outcome comes as no surprise to me. Our last VCAT case was a trashed prestigious inner city apartment. Damage by tenant was ca $20k plus. We knew we had no hope of that at VCAT. So we wrote off the carpet (badly stained by wine ), we swallowed the repaint and we just asked for the actual damage. Holes in walls, broken fixtures etc. we came to $8k. The tenant showed up. No real debate from the tenant . The member found in our favour for $2.2k. That's all. Then the tenant didn't pay a cent. We got the order stamped at the magistrates court. We engaged the sherif. We did all the right stuff. Never got our money. The whole system is a fraud. It just doesn't work. LL

 

[SamL]

I am having similar issues at the moment, tenant abandoned property, left a fair bit of mess, luckily no damage. Agent has gone in to claim the bond and costs against the tenant. The tenant actually decided to rock up to the hearing and stated she never received any of the correspondence regarding the abandonment (don't know how she knew about the hearing then). The agent had attempted multiple phone calls and sent multiple letters which were still all generally in the mail box a couple of weeks later when the locks got changed. The member has adjourned at the moment to another hearing, I am unsure of the full ramifications, all I want is 100% of the bond and to get on with it but it is getting dragged out by a tenant who appears to know how to work the system.