Liverpool Sydney - any thoughts?

Hi guys, I'm planning to buy my first IP. Just like to get your opinions and thoughts about Sydney Liverpool. I have a low budget of less than $350K (ideally between 280k to 330k). I can get a modern 2 bedroom apartment in this area and the rental return isn't too bad either at this moment. Not quiet sure about long term capital and rental performance. Any suggestion or option will be highly appreciated.

If you live in or are familiar with this area, pls kindly let me know where I should look at (close to station or westfield), which street or side I should avoid or any other issue I should pay attention.

I'm new to property investment and any option will be really helpful. :)
 
I like Liverpool. Vacancy rate is nearly zero. Population increasing.

But for that money I'd be looking at a house in that area.
For a 2 bed unit I'd be looking in the low $200's. Yields at that price are good and rising due to low vacancy rates.
 
what the bug said : )

I had a unit in Memorial ave many many moons ago, the growth rate of houses far outstripped the unit.

Thats even more probable with newer unit stock !

Just doing finance for a moderate 3 x 1 x 1 house built in the 60s with recent tart up reno at 345 k

ta
rolf
 
I do have an IP within 800m to station & close to CBD.

I dont mind investing there again. Try to find a house probably > 500sqm, max of 375K (depends on quality) within the hume highway boundary (train station side) from warwick farm till M5 (not as close to M5). Not sure about elizabeth drive till M5, people say that side is not bad either.

In your budget, you will easily get a townhouse or a villa-approx 10 years old, where strata is less than newly built apartments.

Regards
 
Hi guys, I'm planning to buy my first IP. Just like to get your opinions and thoughts about Sydney Liverpool. I have a low budget of less than $350K (ideally between 280k to 330k). I can get a modern 2 bedroom apartment in this area and the rental return isn't too bad either at this moment. Not quiet sure about long term capital and rental performance. Any suggestion or option will be highly appreciated.

If you live in or are familiar with this area, pls kindly let me know where I should look at (close to station or westfield), which street or side I should avoid or any other issue I should pay attention.

I'm new to property investment and any option will be really helpful. :)

What about chipping norton, much nicer area, walking distance to bus stop and small shopping village.

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-unit-nsw-chipping+norton-108005131
 
Have you researched Casula? This is a good alternative to Liverpool with Glen Regent Estate being more leafy, newer and very much sought after for rental. We have two sides of a duplex there and have never had a vacancy, tenants love the area, Casula has a station, Glenfield Station close as well, good bus, bike tracks, great shopping centre near by. Worth a look if you like the Liverpool area. Also the older part of Casula is a nice place to live if you can buy in a quiet street with a larger block. We lived in "old" Casula for many years and it was a top place to live while working - services in this overall area are excellent.
 
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Hi guys, thanks a lot for all your replies. Just a few things I still feel confused. Sorry....very slow but still learning...lol...pls don't laugh at my silly questions...:D

1. Why is the rental return better in Liverpool...since properties are reasonably affordable, why people still rent? :confused: Just concern about future rental performance.

2. Except being far away from Sydney CBD, is there any other reason why properties are cheaper in Liverpool, e.g. population, safety. Just an example, I wouldn't really touch properties in Merrylands or Auburn.

3. Shall I go for house or apartment? I understand the house has bigger land and capital growth is better...from cash-flow perspective...It seems units rental return are better. don't have rich parents...try to take out as less $$$ as possible from my pocket. :p Pls give me some pros and cons.

Any warm-hearted person could provide some information(articles) about what I need to pay attention while buying houses (seems more complicated than buying units) :(

Thank you all and have a lovely night
 
Hi guys, thanks a lot for all your replies. Just a few things I still feel confused. Sorry....very slow but still learning...lol...pls don't laugh at my silly questions...:D

1. Why is the rental return better in Liverpool...since properties are reasonably affordable, why people still rent? :confused: Just concern about future rental performance.

2. Except being far away from Sydney CBD, is there any other reason why properties are cheaper in Liverpool, e.g. population, safety. Just an example, I wouldn't really touch properties in Merrylands or Auburn.

3. Shall I go for house or apartment? I understand the house has bigger land and capital growth is better...from cash-flow perspective...It seems units rental return are better. don't have rich parents...try to take out as less $$$ as possible from my pocket. :p Pls give me some pros and cons.

Any warm-hearted person could provide some information(articles) about what I need to pay attention while buying houses (seems more complicated than buying units) :(

Thank you all and have a lovely night

You ask for many questions but you must decide on the strategy that suits you best. Read some books on realestate and get more knowledege as it's really hard to answer your questions.
1. Whether Liverpool/Casula/Chipping Norton etc... these suburbs have changing demographics where similar people would rent out these properties. People rent as being new migrants they cannot buy straight away, or are poor savers, or have limited income, many reasons.....Past rentals do not guarantee future rentals. Higher yields usually mean lower capital growth (ok, just in general for all other out there that disagree - Margaret Lomas for one). As long as supply and demand forces are at play so will the rent market.
2. Infrastructure, jobs, transport, recreational facilities, earnings, schools and so on and on. Many other factors dictate property prices. Think about it. If most people in the suburb you live earn more, have more stable jobs, can afford expansive private schools, restaurants, then more people will like to live there. So will the demand increase.
3. Personal choice what you go for. I personally go for capital growth over yield but we all have to start somewhere and work out the strategy that suits us. Read a book by Michael Yardney, "“How to Grow a Multi Million Dollar Property Portfolio in your spare time” and '7 Steps to Wealth' by J. Fitzgerald or any book by Jan Sommers.
Houses you have total financial control over (only rates/water costs), and you can make changes to add value. Units have additional fees (strata/management) and any changes must be approved by the strata. There are so many others... read books and educate yourself but to reassure you, well, my brother in-law (and his family) lives in Liverpool (close to the cemetary) in a townhouse (I think complex of 6) since moving to Australia (12 years ago) and pays $380 rent. The owner is selling it right now at $360k or so, and they wish to stay there and rent forever. So the rent is as good as the tenant that rents it out....
I lived 8kms from Liverpool for 20 years (as my migrant family lived and still live there) and I survived (people will often sterotype other people). Now I live in the Lower North Shore and I only moved because I wanted my boys in better private schools (just to give you an idea in $ terms, from $515K to $2.2million).
So remember, it's not just whether it's a house or unit, but whether the overall investment property deal is right (price, yield, holding costs, vacancy, jobs, depreciation, infrastructure, etc...) and education and startegy you start with is the key... Good luck!
 
Do your research through the many books available - there are lots of strategies people use, some people opt for capital growth and are willing to borrow more for the up market areas - others are more conservative and opt for a better rental return and often less capital growth. You have to find your own comfort zone for investing. In the end it is you who has the responsibility for the loans. When we started off nearly twenty years ago I wanted inner city terrace houses, my husband was not comfortable with "old" properties so we compromised and bought in Casula, Campbelltown, Central Coast. These areas are not the highest capital growth areas except for Campbelltown which increased over 100% in under ten years (luck). The thing going for these areas are better rental return and EVERYONE can afford them. You might find large vacancy rates in the more expensive suburbs in tough times because they become unaffordable - people lose their jobs in these areas too. Our business was contracting and we had no guarantee of having a contract after tendering every year or two so that made rental return very important to us, we also put deposits down so if our income dried up we could still manage just on the rents to pay the loans. This is not the way you would go about things if you had a good income which was not likely to dry up. What I am getting at is everyone is different. If you have the ability to buy now don't procrastinate too much as this is where most people fail to get going - once you do one the next properties are easy. We have been retired now for ten years and our loans are small compared to our equity and we have a nice rental income to aid our lifestyle. The best advice I think I would give is to present a clean and well maintained property, always use an agent, take out landlords insurance. We have had only three "bad" tenants in nearly twenty years and most of our tenants stay a long time in our properties. I prefer not to have to pay body corporate fees so would bend towards houses (also the land component for growth or development in the future). But if a unit is all you feel you can manage then look for a decent block near all services - probably a small block is better because you have more land component in the price. Good luck and you can never ask too many questions, this is what this forum was like in the early days as we were all newish at investing in property and all encouraged each other.
 
Liverpool

Hi Diane

I would love to hear your story; especially as my strategy also involves buying cheaper properties (i have one in Ambarvale:))..

i know i have improved my situation (only started 2007) but it will be great to hear your journey and your rough numbers..i read you have retired; how did you do it and are you living off your rents? what is the number of properties needed?

Too many questions, please PM me if you do not want to share on the public forum:p
 
Thank you all for your input. You're real inspirations to me. :) I'm checking out those books MIW suggested. Will keep you all updated once I find a good place.
 
Hi guys, I'm planning to buy my first IP. Just like to get your opinions and thoughts about Sydney Liverpool

I don't mind Liverpool, I have 2 in the area (house +unit) but you should know that Liverpool CBD has a lot of units so if you decide to buy there look for somethng unique.

If you decide to go for a unit, a strata report plus building inspection are essential because many buildings (old and new) have issues and repairs can be very costly.
 
I don't mind Liverpool, I have 2 in the area (house +unit) but you should know that Liverpool CBD has a lot of units so if you decide to buy there look for somethng unique.

If you decide to go for a unit, a strata report plus building inspection are essential because many buildings (old and new) have issues and repairs can be very costly.

Thanks, BV. I'm going to do a few inspections this weekend. I realised that there are LOTS OF units in that area when I started to look into liverpool a few weeks back. Do you mind share your experience, e.g. which streets or buildings I should avoid. Just to share a story whoever reads this thread: I went to Gosford with a friend to inspect a few units he's interested in last year. The first place wasn't too bad (from what we can see...haha:D) and the agent was really nice. When we went to another place, agent asked whether we've been to other places and so we told him. Then...he told us that the first place has some quality issues (the whole building) and the case was still in the court :eek:...which was never mentioned by the first agent :mad:. Even if we could find out eventually (I guess) if the 2nd agent didn't mention anything, it could cost my friend time and $$$.

Anyway, any options or suggestions regarding Liverpool or surrounding areas will be highly appreciated. :)
 
Do you mind share your experience, e.g. which streets or buildings I should avoid.:)

Hard to tell what you should avoid.
Personally I don't like the area close to Speed St
I like the cbd and the area surrounded by Campbell, Castelereagh, Memorial and Bigge streets.

Having said that, I saw a few older units on Castlereagh and walked away but other blocks look ok.
On the other side of Hume Hwy (Copeland st)there are a couple of streets which are walking distance to Westfield eg Collinmoore Ave & Carboni st.
I almost bought a house on Park Rd as well but the vendor got too greedy...
Cheers
 
There is a fair bit of new apartment blocks going up in Liverpool. This would affect Capital Growth to some degree short term? Also it would make the rental market quite competitive affecting rental yields especially with like minded investors buying in.

Personally I would look at an older 2 bedroom unit (if your inclined on buying a unit) closer to the side where the hospital is located. Still close to Westfields, Train station, Schools etc. Even have a look at Warwick Farm, walking distance to Westfields and the above mentioned amenities. In addition has it's own station.
 
Thanks, BV. I'm going to do a few inspections this weekend. I realised that there are LOTS OF units in that area when I started to look into liverpool a few weeks back. Do you mind share your experience, e.g. which streets or buildings I should avoid. Just to share a story whoever reads this thread: I went to Gosford with a friend to inspect a few units he's interested in last year. The first place wasn't too bad (from what we can see...haha:D) and the agent was really nice. When we went to another place, agent asked whether we've been to other places and so we told him. Then...he told us that the first place has some quality issues (the whole building) and the case was still in the court :eek:...which was never mentioned by the first agent :mad:. Even if we could find out eventually (I guess) if the 2nd agent didn't mention anything, it could cost my friend time and $$$.

Anyway, any options or suggestions regarding Liverpool or surrounding areas will be highly appreciated. :)

You need to watch some of those big unit developments in Gosford on steep blocks. I think the road is called The Rombala? Apparently a number of them have structural issues. Also, the council has a map of slip zones online in its planning section.
BTW, I looked at units in Liverpool last year and liked the potiential of the area long term but was turned off by the sheer number of units. We ended up buying a house on the Central Coast for a similar price with a better rental return and great granny flat potential.
Cheers, Ali
 
There is a fair bit of new apartment blocks going up in Liverpool. This would affect Capital Growth to some degree short term?

I agree, there are just too many units but its like Bankstown or Parramatta cbd.

On a positive note, affordability is still good and interest rates are tipped to stay low so many people (even those on lower wages) can afford to buy and hold.
 
BV, would you please share your reason for not liking Speed St?

sa_ali_85

Mate the street name says it all :) (kidding)
Personally I'm a bit fussy and this is the main reason for my preference to the northern side. I find Speed St a bit too far from Westfield, it has too many entry level units and a few times I drove there during peak hours I found it hard to get out.

However, just because I don't like a street this doesn't mean that you won't see capital gains, in fact cheaper properties have lower holding costs and also have room for price improvement.

I did look at units around there 2 years ago and again 6 months ago but for similar money or a bit more I could find better located properties so I could get a higher rent.

cheers
 
Hi all, and hi to the original poster,

This is a great thread. I've looked at Liverpool and surrounds many, many times, and am considering it for my next IP purchase. I have limited funds available for this next one (looking at a $200K buy-rate - max) but think there are some diamonds in the rough in this area.

You sound like a new/young investor much like myself. I'm been working on a blog that might interest you. I love Somersoft forum but I wanted to start a blog for young aspirational investors (like myself - I'm under 30, have a portfolio of three properties, and looking to grow!). Please drop by and if you like it, follow it, so that when I post new blog articles I write, you can get them automatically. The URL is:

http://propertyspectator.blogspot.com
 
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