Lower North Shore Sydney

[tpw]

Hi all,

Looking to buy my PPOR (house) and currently attracted to Lower North Shore, seems like better value for $ compared to Eastern Suburbs where I've been living for past 10 years. Also, had a look at Inner West (Drummoyne, Hunters Hill, etc), love the views but not the aircraft noise though.

I would appreciate some feedback on suburbs like Greenwich, Cammeray, Neutral Bay, Willoughby, Crows Nest and perhaps Castlecrag. Are there any streets or areas to avoid? Any other suburbs I should consider? Mosman is a bit expensive and don't quite like driving on Military Road.

Hope to be close to good public schools and quick public transport to the city.

BTW, does anyone know how's the capital growth in Lower North Shore compared to Eastern suburbs?

Thanks for any feedback.

 

[Ideo]

Budget? Makes a big difference.

 

[MIW]

Hi all,

Looking to buy my PPOR (house) and currently attracted to Lower North Shore, seems like better value for $ compared to Eastern Suburbs where I've been living for past 10 years. Also, had a look at Inner West (Drummoyne, Hunters Hill, etc), love the views but not the aircraft noise though.

I would appreciate some feedback on suburbs like Greenwich, Cammeray, Neutral Bay, Willoughby, Crows Nest and perhaps Castlecrag. Are there any streets or areas to avoid? Any other suburbs I should consider? Mosman is a bit expensive and don't quite like driving on Military Road.

Hope to be close to good public schools and quick public transport to the city.

BTW, does anyone know how's the capital growth in Lower North Shore compared to Eastern suburbs?

Thanks for any feedback.

Gee, I will be biased here but all those suburbs you mentioned had very good capital growth (BUT - depending on the time frame!).
If you don't mind catching the bus than all the suburbs you mentioned are within very close commute to CBD or North Sydney. If you are after train line than you need to look slightly further.
I live in Castlecrag now for the last 3 years and I really feel as if I will stay here forever.....(excellent schools, great amenities, distance, community feel, views, cafes, nature and bird life, etc... I could go on forever, but remember I am biased!)
I did feel the same way about Mosman, about the Military Road traffic, so I understand your concern.
You can always rent for a year, live in the suburb you may like, and then purchase.....
Crows Nest may have something like 260 cafes and more units and some shops. The streets to stay away, well that depends if you are after a unit or a house, etc...., but the best way is to have a drive and a look... I would not purchase a house next to high unit complexes in Neutral Bay, but it all depends what you are looking for....
Northbridge dropped quite in price in the last 3 years so perhaps it's also worth a look. Willoughby has some older houses which may have some development potential...but has great schools, distance and proximity.
Anyway, best of luck!

 

[tpw]

Thanks for the responses. Budget is around $1.5m, may stretch a bit more. Did think of renting first but was planning to start family soon, so a bit of a hassle to move later, etc.

I did a check on a couple of houses in Willoughby & Cammeray, and their asking price is close to what the owners paid back in 2008-2009. Hence, a bit worried if capital growth isn't really there.

My quick research so far seems to suggest the following areas to avoid (pls correct me if wrong):
- near Channel 9 TV antenna in Willoughby
- Greenwich road due to trucks going in & out of the Shell Terminal

 

[Shahin_Afarin]

@ MIW - I don't think you are being biased here. There is massive demand of families wanting to live in areas such as Willoughby, Greenwich and Wollstonecraft. They are fantastic areas to live. Family orientated, nice shops and cafes, close proximity to NS and Sydney. The biggest issue is budget and finding a decent house at the right price. If you find a property that needs renovation and has 'potential' expect a hoard of buyers!

I have a lot of investors in the Eastern Suburbs (paddo and the like) that are really struggling selling their properties at a profit. Randwick seems to be doing fairly well though.

PS I live on the North Shore (couldn't afford the lower so had to settle for upper) so I may be a tad biased too.

 

[vaughan]

After about a year of little turn-over, there has been quite a lot of activity in Willoughby recently. For Sale signs have popped up everywhere, now all have SOLD on them.

 

[MIW]

I did a check on a couple of houses in Willoughby & Cammeray, and their asking price is close to what the owners paid back in 2008-2009. Hence, a bit worried if capital growth isn't really there.

My quick research so far seems to suggest the following areas to avoid (pls correct me if wrong):
- near Channel 9 TV antenna in Willoughby
- Greenwich road due to trucks going in & out of the Shell Terminal

I mostly agree with what you said but remember what capital growth time frame are you after (1 year, 5 years, 10 years?). Equity can be manufactured in number of ways:
1. Buying well - below median
2. Adding value - small or bigger renovation
3. Paying some off over time
I think that most people living in these suburbs wish to be located to good schools, they may have better earnings to averages, closer infrastructure to work and amenities.... If these places are to go down in value than I would presume most other areas would too. It's all about supply and demand, right?
Anyway, see the deal below that one mum did in Castlecrag recently, even in tough or bad times as some point out. It all depends on you and whether you will know your market. I have copied these details from some other email:

"onthehouse.com.au" I had noticed one interesting deal, as I remember bidding and backing out of this property, yet a school mum bought it and sold it 10 months later. Details are:
52 Sunnyside Crescent, Castlecrag NSW 2068, bought
Sold: $1,180,000
on 22/09/2011

then 10 months later:

Sold: $1,360,000
on 20/07/2012

Nothing was done to the house as I drive past it quite often.....
When I asked the mum why she sold she said they got a good price for it, so I suppose in even hard or negative times some positive deals are made...

I suppose this deal was worth if you only lived in it, right? But they do exist, so yes you will have properties that will be overvalued or undervalued, but as long as you buy below the median price for the suburb and you know after the research what is a good deal than deals can be found. Good luck!
Remember, no one has a crystal ball what the future will hold so we can only make the most informed decisions at the moment we are presented them with!

 

[tpw]

Thanks for all the responses, my wife & I went to Lower North Shore last night straight after work. Traffic was light going to Greenwich, Cammeray, etc even though it was 5.30pm. Is this generally the case day-to-day?

@TheFinanceShop, agree that Randwick has been doing well. We just sold our place there and find it hard to find good value in current market.

@MIW, thanks for the example. Agree with what you said.

How's the rental market for houses in LNS? Is there a good demand for 4/5 bedroom houses around the $1k-1.5k level?

Would appreciate thoughts on how these 2 properties compare to each other (they are similar price range but different suburb, so thought could be a good comparison):
Willoughby
Cammeray

The Cammeray house is in between a block of apartments (4 units) and duplex but is double storey. Nearer to the city. On the other hand, Willoughby house is nearer to the shops and next to houses. Would think based on suburb, the Cammeray property is better value?

 

[oneguy]

Thanks for all the responses, my wife & I went to Lower North Shore last night straight after work. Traffic was light going to Greenwich, Cammeray, etc even though it was 5.30pm. Is this generally the case day-to-day?

I was driving through Cammeray around that time yesterday too. It did seem a bit lighter than usual, but not that much lighter.

It does depend on whether there's an accident or breakdown, even if that's several kilometers ahead, as that as a flow on effect which reduces traffic to a crawl. Unfortunately it seems like breakdowns and accidents occur 2-3 times a week

 

[vaughan]

I did a check on a couple of houses in Willoughby & Cammeray, and their asking price is close to what the owners paid back in 2008-2009. Hence, a bit worried if capital growth isn't really there.

That was the last peak of the market. There was HEAPS of CG up to then: my property in Willoughby doubled between 1999 and 2008. Prices were silly IMHO, well over $1M for anything, anywhere.

That's the risk of buying at the top of the market. We may well be back at the previous top again now, there are a few new "record prices" being achieved in the area. But will it go much further?

 

[Ideo]

Not sure if it is budget, but Northbridge? Very family friendly area.

I used to live in Mosman and I agree about Military Road. If you are south side the back way down through Rangers Rd etc is a great time saver. You'd be stretching the budget to get anything decent though.

 

[onetwothreefour]

Personally, I do not like to live in north bridge and castlec rag due to older home occupants and European born occupants. They pretty fussy on many things, don't wish to explain further. Have you tried lame cove or lindfield? Chats wood is also good area. My brother bought a house there and it's the same price as 5 years ago but nicely renovated (around 2 mill). Lane cove north is having constructions bonanza ATM. There are at least 5 new developments going up.

 

[Shahin_Afarin]

There are some massive bargains in Lindfield and Killara if you have the dough.

 

[tpw]

Never really considered Lindfield, Lane Cove or Killara. The travel to city by car or public transport is much further, isn't it?

At $2m, I might as well consider Vaucluse & Rose Bay area? Houses are smaller for that price but better postcode?

BTW, anyone knows how's the rental market in LNS for 4/5 bedroom houses around the $1k-1.5k level?

 

[Shahin_Afarin]

Generally speaking you are looking at around 4.50%. The rental market has slowed a bit since this time last year.

 

[onetwothreefour]

Never really considered Lindfield, Lane Cove or Killara. The travel to city by car or public transport is much further, isn't it?

At $2m, I might as well consider Vaucluse & Rose Bay area? Houses are smaller for that price but better postcode?

BTW, anyone knows how's the rental market in LNS for 4/5 bedroom houses around the $1k-1.5k level?

Lane cove is excellent for access to busses. There is a special dedicated bus and cycle lane on epping road. You would get to city in less than 15min if you catch a bus from epping road. There is only 3 set of traffic light to get to airport once you are on epping road. Lane school public is very good school. The plaza is bustling with families. Our property was praised at $900/wk for rent. What you need to look for is a prop with garage, flat and close to transport. If you look around loungeville rd, you get great access to plaza. School and transport.

 

[Jacque]

Hi all,

Looking to buy my PPOR (house) and currently attracted to Lower North Shore, seems like better value for $ compared to Eastern Suburbs where I've been living for past 10 years. Also, had a look at Inner West (Drummoyne, Hunters Hill, etc), love the views but not the aircraft noise though.

I would appreciate some feedback on suburbs like Greenwich, Cammeray, Neutral Bay, Willoughby, Crows Nest and perhaps Castlecrag. Are there any streets or areas to avoid? Any other suburbs I should consider? Mosman is a bit expensive and don't quite like driving on Military Road.

Hope to be close to good public schools and quick public transport to the city.

BTW, does anyone know how's the capital growth in Lower North Shore compared to Eastern suburbs?

Thanks for any feedback.

Hi tpw

Know these areas well having bought for a few clients now
If public transport to the city is important then you have the options of being near rail (Crows Nest, parts of Greenwich, Wollstonecraft, Waverton etc) or buses (NB, Cammeray, Willoughby, NBridge, Lane Cove etc)

Depending on what you want (or expect) for your $1.5m budget all of the above are possible but if it's a 4-5 bed home that's half decent and has some yard for chn/pets I believe that LC and surrounds is probably your safest bet. Keep in mind, though, that your budget is a popular one for most home buyers in these areas and quality will vary depending on where and what you buy.

Too many suburbs above to discuss in detail but get out there and look and you'll soon develop a feel for what's on the market in your price bracket. Once you've narrowed it down, then come and ask us

Keep in mind, too, that as far as investment goes, houses in these suburbs tend not to be favoured too much by investors due to the large land tax bills that accompany the outgoings. A block with $800K land value content, for example (which isn't uncommon in LNS) is going to cost you around $6500 p/a in land tax alone if you decide to utilize the property as an IP.

I love many streets in the above suburbs, though find Military Rd an absolute PITA and Pac Highway can be a real bottleneck most days at least twice. Upper NS is lovely but you do need to be prepared to grit your teeth if driving much further north than Chatswood. Roseville and Chatswood have some lovely period homes so you may want to check them out too. Best of luck narrowing it down