Melbourne Private Schools

[Soren Lorenson]

anyone here have a link to published info/results on private schools in melbourne?

i have some information from the local ragazine, that shows the private schools in Whitehorse generally outperforming the gubberment schools,

I know academic scores are not everything, but i'm wondering if 20K a year for your kid in a private school is worth it, considering the median score of some of the local government schools are similar.

As a case in point, Koonung (33/50) or Box Hill High (32/50) Vs. PLC girls in Burwood. (36/50)

obviously PLC wins, but for example Kingswood is also a private school costs anywhere from 15-20K per year depending and gets 31/50, worse than Koonung or Box Hill High which costs a heck of alot less being government schools

see attached,

normally there will be something in the Media about a couple of bright sparks in one school or other getting the 99.95 Enter score, but i think the median scores are the best metric for comparison here.

I guess my conclusion is just by putting your kids into any private school will not necessarily mean they will get a better academic education than choosing a private school but should research and pick the best performers for our kids like we do for everything else, obviously private schools may offer extra things the government schools dont, like music/drama/ etc

over to you

tia

 

[marg4000]

Schools don't get results, kids do.

The single most influential factor affecting how well a kid does at school (after allowing for natural ability, which you can't do much about) is the parents' attitudes. Parents who read to young children, value education and do everything in their power to see that their child attends school, does assignments, helps with varying life experiences etc will ensure their kids achieve their full potential.

The reason that private schools get better results on average is that they are able to select their students, expel any who don't "measure up", (or firmly tell parents that little Freddy is 'not really suited' to their school and should be sent to the loval Government School) and by and large the parents who pursue a private education for their kids have the means and ability to ensure their kids do their best.

Remember private schools are businesses, and have budgets to promote themselves, unlike Government schools. Therefore they loudly trumpet their results in a format suitable to the results. Like all statistics, there are numerous ways of looking at the same figures. Figures that say that 25% of students scored in the top 10% may or may not mean that NONE scored in the top 5%, etc. etc.

But at the end of the day, an individual child will probably achieve a similar result in a private or government school.

Government schools offer all of the extra-curricular activities that private schools do, including all sports, drama, languages, interstate and overseas trips, music tours, etc.. Government schools differ the same as private schools do, and not all options are available at all schools.

Marg

Disclaimer: I work in a Government high school

 

[Twitch]

32 vs. 36 makes a large difference in getting into courses, doesn't it?

 

[wylie]

I agree with Marg. Kids will do well wherever they go.

We chose a mid range cost private school mainly for the fact that our first son's teacher said that because of his quiet nature, he WILL be bullied at school (which he was). She said her opinion was to go the co-ed private school we were considering rather than the local state high schools for the reason that private schools have more "teeth" to deal with things if a child is bullied.

Our boy was bullied in his first year. We followed the protocol set out by the school (wondering if it was all talk and no action) and we were called that very night by the trusted teacher it was reported to. Next day, the three bullies were dealt with by that same teacher. I have seen at the primary school level bullies get away with their bullying because the headmaster doesn't follow through the bullying policy, so it was worth every cent that my son's issue was dealt with swiftly and properly.

Quite apart from that, this school was and is a lovely school with no snobbery attached, which I like, with plenty (mostly) average families attending. I have a big problem with some of the rah-rah rugby schools and the snobbery and rubbish that they promote and the "boys own" stuff that happens in them, so one of these schools was never on our list anyway.

It so happens that in my son's senior year 25% of the seniors got OP1 to OP5 so it goes to show that the parents money doesn't translate into academic achievement.

 

[redsquash]

Another point to consider is the less divergent range of ability that often exists in a private school.
There are of course problems in both , but my observation is that there are far fewer problems in the better private schools.

As mentioned earlier,some students may be asked to leave as they don't fit in with the school philosophy, whereas a govt school will be stuck with such students, eg may be very disruptive or lazy,or distracting other students.
With a better environment teachers may be more likely to apply themselves more. I Know many hard working teachers in the govt schools but with discipline a major problem it does tend to wear even the most resilient teachers down over time.

Peers and their attitudes play an immensely important role in how a student will apply himself /herself.
I was surrounded by a lot of high achievers at an independent school and believe I was influenced a lot to be part of the group ....ie the group idea was to be successful and to study a lot.Many had already strong goals at an early age.

I strongly suspect I would have done worse at a govt school, not due to the teachers , but due to my own attitude in a tough and bad environment where I could play handball against the local jail wall at lunch time.
The extra curricula activities also made it very, very enjoyable to go to school , though study was a grind for me.

If your child is in the top 5 % then academically it may not be a significant difference , but in my case there were lots of out of school activities which enhanced the education process.
I can probably be contradicted on every point, but you need to choose a school very carefully be it private or govt.
I imagine for example that $20,000 of private tutoring on top of a govt education would also improve student grades. There are plenty of Uni students with honours who could do this at a reasonable price.

My former secondary school has a waiting time of 5years to enrol so, there are probably good reasons for such a wait, to enrol.

 

[The Y-man]

One of the first things I noticed in my first engineering lecture class at uni - there were students from expensive private schools, not so expensive private schools, selective entry government shools and just normal government schools - we all ended up in the same class room!

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[Pushka]

Schools don't get results, kids do

That is true, but watch what happens when a bright kid is put into a peer group who really dont give a damn! And that, seriously, is far less likely to happen in a private school.

The reason that private schools get better results on average is that they are able to select their students, expel any who don't "measure up"

And that is exactly why people send their kids to private schools. Except that 'measure up' means something different to me. And I should also re-phrase that - are willing to invest their hard earned dollars into their kids education.

Private schools (well, in SA anyway) don't select the students; enrolments are offered on a strict application basis - first come, first enrolled to attend. Scholarships on the other hand, are offered on an examination basis. They may select the brightest students for their scholarships, which overall comprise less than 4% of their overall student population.

Because of those scholarships, it is important to see what the 'average' student gets in exams and not the top students, that is the real story. This year in SA, girls from private schools scored amazingly better than the boys!

In our son's schools, the kids who 'didn't measure up and were asked to leave' happened to be those kids who 1. Stole graphics calculators then tried to re-sell them; 2. Assaulted another child; 3. Sold pot outside the school 4. Major disruption issues. So glad the school did what they did - expelled them!

No child was expelled because they simply didn't 'measure up' - presumably academically in Marg's context; they were expelled because they were trouble!

But at the end of the day, an individual child will probably achieve a similar result in a private or government school.

And on that point, your risk management strategy will determine what you decide to do.

Government schools offer all of the extra-curricular activities that private schools do

On this point we totally disagree. They cannot. And it isn't until you send your kids into the private system that you can see what private schools offer.

Y-man - sometimes the TER scores received are just a little part of the story.

My disclaimer - two now adult children who have attended different co-ed and single sex schools. Both received excellent TER's and have the most amazing peer group ever!
Me - attended Public school

 

[ger]

Try this link
hope it helps

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/statistics/schoolstats/index.html

 

[Soren Lorenson]

thanks mate, exactly what i was after

 

[Soren Lorenson]

dear all, thanks for comments

 

[Pushka]

They wont release this information in SA about Public Schools!

 

[LynnH]

I agree with Pushka's comments. Before we sent our girls to private schools, we spent well over a year talking to several teachers we knew who had been in the education system (both public and private) for a number of years, and who knew our children. Based on their advice, we chose to 'go private' in the primary school years (at a co-ed school) followed by girls-only schools for their secondary years.

Our experience of the private system (3 schools in all, due to moving interstate) was that the facilities were better, the teachers much more enthusiastic and the schools would not tolerate any abberant behaviour (stealing, lying, bullying, drugs, etc). But most importantly, IMHO, my girls (who were all quite shy and a little under-confident in primary years) turned into confident, outgoing young ladies because of the enthusiasm and encouragement of a wonderful bunch of teachers who believed that girls should be given every opportunity to achieve their full potential.

Today, each of our daughters has two university degrees and all work in professional areas. I do not believe they would be where they are today if they had continued in the public school system in the areas where we lived.

Having said that, I believe that it's 'horses for courses' - it depends on the individual child and it depends on the school/s concerned. Some children will do well wherever they are educated - others not so.

Cheers
LynnH

 

[ger]

They wont release this information in SA about Public Schools!

Hi Pushka
maybe it is available
I emailed phoned all Vic Gvt dep
before I was given the above link
it is not widely published here in melb

worth trying

 

[oasis1frog]

It so happens that in my son's senior year 25% of the seniors got OP1 to OP5 so it goes to show that the parents money doesn't translate into academic achievement.

wylie, is it the Brisbane Grammar School ? Does anyone know good public schools (students get OP1s) between CBD & Brisbane west (The Gap) ?

 

[wylie]

No, it is Cannon Hill Anglican College (CHAC) at Colmslie. My boys bus to school from Coorparoo. Plenty of kids come from all over Brisbane, but probably mostly local kids. Many of the Grammar and Churchie snobby types would rather have their toenails pulled out with pliers rather than go to CHAC. There is no "snob value" or "fanfare" at CHAC and no "old boys network" to help get a job at daddy's law firm at the end. It is a "normal" high school in many ways. It is a fantastic school and we are extremely glad we sent the boys there. They are getting a great education surrounded by "normal" kids.

It has a lovely wetlands setting with one story buildings spread over a big block. The school is only about 18 years old and has always had a lovely community feeling. There are rich families there, but plenty of regular families.

I know it is just an "issue" about snobbery I have but I known plenty of Churchie and Grammar and Terrace families and I would NEVER have sent my first born to mix with these families. I also know there are plenty of boys who are not from the "landed gentry" (or wannabe landed gentry) who also go to these schools, but I just have a ph-ph-phobia about the snobby types who use the old school tie as a means of pulling favours. I have seen it too many times.

I know families who send their boys to Churchie because "the boss at work sends their boy there". What the??? (Novel way of sucking up to the boss and novel way of choosing a school.)

 

[Pushka]

Hi Pushka
maybe it is available
I emailed phoned all Vic Gvt dep
before I was given the above link
it is not widely published here in melb

worth trying

No, there is usually a media statement each year that they will not identify the results from individual schools.

Having said that, as I mentioned in a previous post, each year the private schools send a letter to the school community (and post it on their website) about how well the students have done. The girls this year did brilliantly (double the number of girls got perfect scores) so the single sex girls schools had their 'success letter' out before Christmas! We are still waiting on the one from our son's all boys school, and they havent responded to an email request for one. Maybe their trumpet won't be blown as loudly this year because I do know (with son having done Year 12 last year) that there were some very disappointed people!

 

[Soren Lorenson]

No, there is usually a media statement each year that they will not identify the results from individual schools.

Having said that, as I mentioned in a previous post, each year the private schools send a letter to the school community (and post it on their website) about how well the students have done. The girls this year did brilliantly (double the number of girls got perfect scores) so the single sex girls schools had their 'success letter' out before Christmas! We are still waiting on the one from our son's all boys school, and they havent responded to an email request for one. Maybe their trumpet won't be blown as loudly this year because I do know (with son having done Year 12 last year) that there were some very disappointed people!

At this age, 17 or 18, the girls are always gonna win out in the game of averages

 

[Soren Lorenson]

Summary of VCE median 2007, best and worst

I've gone throught the overall results and as an interesting exercise compiled the best and worst median VCE study scores (out of 50)

In general - looking through the results, in summary, inner suburb private colleges are well represented here, which you might expect, with median VCE of mid to high 30's, whereas the worst appear to be outer suburbs or lower socio-economic areas with low to mid 20's, so the median differential is circa 15 points of out 50,

*note also the Jewish schools are well represented in the best performers

I can guarantee you the students and kids themselves would have very similar intelligence and academic abilities but likely to have differing environments and upbringing, its does highlight the fact environment and upbringing/prosperity can affect future abilities and progression of our youngsters, which is unfortunate.

Again my views are only general and based on medians and sure bright sparks in the worst schools will do well, but the general findings they speak for themselves.

any comment, see attached images of best/worst perf.

 

[oasis1frog]

No, it is Cannon Hill Anglican College (CHAC) at Colmslie.

Wylie, thank you very much. I will look into the school. My kids are in a Christian College. One of the reasons I sent them to a private school is I think the school will deal with bullying more efficiently, and this was proven with a recent incident with my daughter.

 

[Soren Lorenson]

2006 & 2005 info available here,

very consistent top performers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_schools_in_Victoria,_Australia_according_to_2006_VCE_results