Money Irresponsibility - Needs - Wants

[BayView]

But why did he have a ready audience who admitted being awakened to a new way of thinking because of the successful way he put it together ?

He outlined solution and suggested they were practical for the reader.

It's the same in many walks of life.
In my past life as a teaching golf pro, I have heard the same information about how to create/make various swing positions and movements occur explained in several different ways. Some of them make so much logical sense, and are so simple, you wonder how it wasn't thought of before.

It is often just a simple re-arrangement of terms and/or words which will give the pupil a "light-bulb moment" and off they go towards golfing success (assuming they actually apply the new "simple" knowledge and practice it).

Formally I don't think we don't get that we don't get told there is a problem / solution to think about.. Just get on with it.. we see others getting on with it .. hear life isn't supposed to be eay and get on with getting on like everyone else... doesn't alway hsve to make sense and that sense of 'now' we lal have i of course to blame as well, cause ther examples and lessons around us at this time I'm talking about above, but bloody human nature means most don't think they can cause they see most don't.. or something like that I think..

That's right.
Schools don't teach the simple stuff that RK goes on about - he goes on about how the schools have dropped the ball in this regard, and he is now trying to implement programs into schools to change this, but many of the school directors/teachers etc are no better than the student in financial matters, so he/we are up against their mindset from the beginning.

I look at my own employees as a good example; all three of the mechanics are very intelligent; only one of them finished high school though.
As for their financial education and intelligence - bloody hopeless; one is 63 and renting, one is 35 and renting (and never looks like being able to buy) and the apprentice is 18 and keeps borrowing money off me every week when he is left with too much week at the end of the money - smokes, drives a guzzler and lives on junk food, has a pie at smoke-o every day, and take-away whatever else at lunchtime.

He drools over my Clubsport, and I've already told him "yeah, well; you keep smoking those stupid ciggies and living on cr@p food like you do, and you'll never be able to afford one"....

He just laughed.

But I guess what other are saying also is you can only lead a horse to water..

Ta da!

 

[Macca]

HI BV,

When I was employing teenagers I used to spend time with one every now and then and show him how to afford " their dream"

I found it best to keep it casual using a bit of paper conveniently lying on the counter and the "pen for customers" tied to it. Showed them how if they cut the ciggies and grog a bit what could happen.

I used to say "pay your bills, bank half of whats left and blow the rest"

After 5 or 6 goes one of them got a light bulb moment, he bought a house 2 years later

Funny thing is, I think I was just as excited as he was when he bought it

 

[virgo]

It's the same in many walks of life.

That's right.
Schools don't teach the simple stuff that RK goes on about - he goes on about how the schools have dropped the ball in this regard, and he is now trying to implement programs into schools to change this, but many of the school directors/teachers etc are no better than the student in financial matters, so he/we are up against their mindset from the beginning.

Ta da!

I am but a new immigrant (10 years??); i am still amazed at this mentality of pushing the responsibility to someone else?

Shouldn't financial literacy and habits start at home? My parents instilled in me a thrift mentality (we always put aside savings every month!) and i pass on this to my kids too...

The school has a crowded curriculum as it is; what do you want them to teach next? Ethics and religion? Cooking? Survival skills? How to choose your life partner?

 

[weg]

Shouldn't financial literacy and habits start at home? My parents instilled in me a thrift mentality (we always put aside savings every month!) and i pass on this to my kids too...

The school has a crowded curriculum as it is; what do you want them to teach next? Ethics and religion? Cooking? Survival skills? How to choose your life partner?

I agree that it's one of many things parents should teach, or lead by example.

Schools already teach a huge amount of social/ethics/safety/survival stuff as it is, just because some parents won't or can't do it. ie. safe sex, drugs and alcohol, water survival, safe bicycle riding, road rules, etc, that you have to wonder where you draw the line.

I'm a bit sceptical anyway, that teaching this stuff at school would make any significant inroads when the parents and siblings, who the child sees see day to day, do otherwise, and when they don't handle or earn any significant amount of money themselves to understand the relevance of what's being taught.

I think the kids who would learn something are the ones who have already learned from home.

 

[lizzie]

The problem is that most of the parents don't have the skills to teach financial literacy because they are no better than their kids at understanding.

Parents teach what they know - and if they don't know they can't teach - some even struggle to teach their kids how to spell and form a verbal sentence.

Sometimes we forget that those of us on the forum are in the top minute percentage of people in Australia - those who actually understand how money works. And even then some of us (me included) struggle with the concept at times.

Personally I'd rather see religious studies get tossed from primary schools (they get a lesson once a week) and replaced with a combined ethics/finances class ... the problem would be finding a teacher with the ability to teach such.

I was one of the ones who understood the concept of money on some level (having read books such as Richest Man in Babylon) ... but didn't "get it" until I read RDPD in my early 30's

 

[weg]

The problem is that most of the parents don't have the skills to teach financial literacy because they are no better than their kids at understanding.

Parents teach what they know - and if they don't know they can't teach - some even struggle to teach their kids how to spell and form a verbal sentence.

And that's the thing. Many of these parents don't teach much at all, let alone the basics.

Teaching someone how to walk before they can run is much more important, ie. concentrating on giving them a good education (and getting them to understand it's importance) so they can earn more than minimum wage later.

Those that walk proficiently are more able to run eventually, if they choose (or have a light bulb moment). At the very least they'll be employable and able to support themselves on a decent income.

 

[Property Meister]

its all about priorites,

there is no right or wrong in any of it,

it makes it hard when people start seeing things differently and UNobjectively.

some people think that there is no point living unless you are LIVING,

while some people would love to save every $ for the time when the world falls apart and everyone is unemployed for 5 years with food prices 10x increasing.

I personally think anybody that buys a phone outright is nuts,
I choose to go out for dinner/drinks at least once per week/fortnight,

I think paying $100 for the conveniecne of something in a shop where I can get it online for $45 is crazy

it all comes down to preference, priorties,

but the only thing I dont accept is someone who has made choices starts complaining about the choices that have been made

 

[jaycee]

its all about priorites,

there is no right or wrong in any of it,

it makes it hard when people start seeing things differently and UNobjectively.

some people think that there is no point living unless you are LIVING,

while some people would love to save every $ for the time when the world falls apart and everyone is unemployed for 5 years with food prices 10x increasing.

I personally think anybody that buys a phone outright is nuts,
I choose to go out for dinner/drinks at least once per week/fortnight,

I think paying $100 for the conveniecne of something in a shop where I can get it online for $45 is crazy

it all comes down to preference, priorties,

but the only thing I dont accept is someone who has made choices starts complaining about the choices that have been made

Which is one of the very things we are discussing

- those who would say "I dont' care ! I dont want to be more repsonsible, I wanto to buy another $20 drink.. I know what this will mean later in my life and I am prepared to deal with the situation then and wil be happy enough to live with it, I've looked into it & I'm not being blissfully naive", we probably wouldn't worry too much about...

It's the friends and relatives and people who seem blissfully unaware of potential issues they will have later on that we worry about

 

[Deltaberry]

I am but a new immigrant (10 years??); i am still amazed at this mentality of pushing the responsibility to someone else?

Shouldn't financial literacy and habits start at home? My parents instilled in me a thrift mentality (we always put aside savings every month!) and i pass on this to my kids too...

The school has a crowded curriculum as it is; what do you want them to teach next? Ethics and religion? Cooking? Survival skills? How to choose your life partner?

Welcome to Australia, the land where tall poppies are chopped and footballers are worshiped and ancestors are convicts.

The teaching of financial skills does indeed start at the home. But what happens if the home doesn't believe in dollars because culture and society frowns upon people who speak of such evil?

Having @-grade @$$holes like D!$k Smith talk about rich people needing to give more back to society, instead of encouraging lazy people to get off their bottoms and get a job in the mine to help curb the workforce shortage, doesn't help. I refuse to buy products from this @-grade convict's shop.

 

[BayView]

Parents teach what they know - and if they don't know they can't teach - some even struggle to teach their kids how to spell and form a verbal sentence.

And then there is the lazy, un-involved parent (which makes me want to ask them why they had kids in the first place).

One of my son's sometime-time friends (sees him occasionally outside of school) has a younger sister (approx 7 years) who - according to the Mother - is struggling with reading.

The girl's teacher has requested that the parents spend extra time after school with her to get her catching up to the rest of the class and back on track for her age group.....

The Mother's complaint to us when explaining this scenario?........

"Why should I have to spend all this time - that's the school's job to teach her to read".

 

[redwing]

I must be a silly old idealist deep down ... I just want everybody to be happy!!!

As per the thread then, as long as you don't "need" everyone to be happy

We all have want's

 

[sue78]

hmmmm...life is short and money is made to be spent and enjoyed!

also, is it really worth confrontation over something so minor? it's only an iPad.

If you want to talk about Apple products, well they are worth every cent. I can't live without it. Things I hate most is slow computers and internet connection.

If you are stingy on yourself then how can you be generous to others, how do you bless others?

Life's not just about money. What about health? children? family? work satisfaction?

We spend on ourselves, we are very generous to our children we are generous to our family and close friends, we try to bless people in need and hardship...why? because of all the blessings we have already received. Life isn't meaningful if you only live for yourself.

Honestly, hypothetically speaking...if I could afford it or even if I couldn't, if my bro really wanted an iPad, I would just buy it for him. Just once off...it's just so nice to be able to bless someone because you care.

In times of need, people will remember how gracious you were and will help you out too. That's what friends and family are suppose to be rather than comparing, putting each other down, being competitive etc...

 

[Aaron_C]

In times of need, people will remember how gracious you were and will help you out too. That's what friends and family are suppose to be rather than comparing, putting each other down, being competitive etc...

Not necessarily. After a while your family resents you for being 'wealthy', and they start to expect you to buy them things. Once you stop, they hate your guts because you are greedy and selfish.

 

[weg]

Not necessarily. After a while your family resents you for being 'wealthy', and they start to expect you to buy them things. Once you stop, they hate your guts because you are greedy and selfish.

Agree Aaron. Even if they don't resent you for being wealthy, they'd still expect things and think you're selfish because you have excess money and they haven't. Not a nice way to be thought of for helping, but that's how it often is.

Also I think 'just buying' someone something, because they want it, without them working for it, takes away the opportunity to teach them how to earn their own money and to budget.

Albeit on a much larger scale, an example is Alex's brother who's never had to pay rent. The mother's generosity has set him up for failure in managing his finances, and now she's unhappy about the set up (she probably realises he'll kick up a stink if the arrangement changes).

 

[Player]

hmmmm...life is short and money is made to be spent and enjoyed!.............

...........In times of need, people will remember how gracious you were and will help you out too. That's what friends and family are suppose to be rather than comparing, putting each other down, being competitive etc...

Sue, I don't disagree with the tone of your post. There needs to be some balance.

However, the thread is about needs versus wants.

I hardly think an i-pad or other e-device qualifies as a need on Maslow's hierarchy or most people's actually. This is a want IMO. It is not a necessity of life unless one's only mission is to be "in with the crowd" when the rest of their life is upside down with debt.

 

[RumpledElf]

Agree Aaron. Even if they don't resent you for being wealthy, they'd still expect things and think you're selfish because you have excess money and they haven't. Not a nice way to be thought of for helping, but that's how it often is.

My parents probably fall in the 'wealthy' basket - I have no idea how much money they have but they've squirreled the difference between being paupers and being medianly employed for about 20 years now - all gone into shares, they don't do property. All I know is they have over $1M of assets of some form or another, excluding their house, which they long since paid off as they bought the thing for $8,000 donkey's years ago and never moved.

They don't help family as a general rule. My aunt is awful with money and could use some serious bailing out. They've spotted us some money here and there and offered us their car a while back (we declined) when they were trading up but nothing major and we've generally paid them back. They get us something reasonably large for Christmas each year, to the tune of about $500. I do remember a time in my teens when my mother spotted my uncle the bond on a rental because he was between pays - uncle in question was full time employed as a doctor and my mother was a student living on savings.

I gave them a vague rundown of this thread. They said you feed/clothe/educate your kids with no obligation of anything back, kick em out to fend for themselves, and then they look after you when you're old lol

Not sure what my partner's parents expect. Cos as it stands, we sure aren't looking after them when they're old. Unless something dramatically changes.

 

[weg]

RE, are they generous in other way though?

They sound a little like my IL in some ways, except we get $500 each for Christmas. We don't know their wealth either, because it's not talked about, but they must be doing OK as only one of them gets a small part pension.

The thing is they are not at all materialistic and are very frugal, and think their kids are doing very well (even if the kids don't always think so ), and would give us money in a flash if we asked for it - they lent us money when we asked on a couple of ocassions in our leaner, early years and they wouldn't accepted the money back.

They are very generous with us in other ways however. They've been quiet achievers in their extensive work for charity too, ie. meals on wheels for 40 years, helping at the Childrens Hospital, St. Vinnies once a week for decades, adopting elderly with no family and mowing their lawns, shopping, taking them to appointments (even inherited from one and gave it to charity ).

Some of the best assistance is non monetary, and the kind people remember most and are most grateful for. You really don't have to be rich to help your kids.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

That adds up to a whole lot of money over 15 years, plus however many more years he takes advantage of his parents.

Multiplied out over 15 years plus however much longer he plans on sponging on his parents, well... it adds up to about the value of a house.

As a sibling, I would not be happy about that. If you would be, then good on you Jaycee.

AlexP has said her brother spends all his money on toys and cannot pay his bills. Isn't it about time he stood up and acted like a man?

Yes, agree 100%!! Well said!!

also... in regards to your question about inheritance. it will be split equally between the 3 of us! I wander how much deposit he will get for his first home. My sister and I got the same amount. He gets to live rent free for 15 years and i wouldn't be surprised if he got more deposit than us as well. I hope our family doesn't get torn apart over money. I really do!

Actually I highly doubt he will even move out of mum and dads ip until they have retired (in 5 years time when they are 70) Thats when my parents will sell their ip to pay off their ppor and that is when they will get their first home deposit.

Oh well I'll just look at the positives to my situation......

ps i'm not as bitter about all this as i used to be. i have learned to live with it. the above paragraphs are basically myself just stating the facts/the situation.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Do you have other siblings? Will your parents make provision in their will to make up for the huge financial benefit he has received for rent free living for 15 years (plus however many more years he benefits), not to mention the other help with his bills?

I know some will think that this issue is nothing to do with you or any other siblings, but I have seen how it can tear a family apart. I have seen this in my husband's family.

Nope. They wont


In fact I have grave worries about how long their super will last them in old age. I'm thinking that when they retire at age 70 (in 5 years time) that they might be lucky to get to age 75 or age 80 before its all gone!! I can see myself helping them out financially. Its good though for me because I can see that I will be in a strong financial position in around 20 years time when i'm 60 and I'll be able to help them out.

Dad has also talked about how he reckons he would get bored not working and wants to continue to work part time in the future. Problem with that is he will need to be healthy and when you age you might get sick.

I might need to revise my plans and instead of planning to retire on $60 K net pa maybe i'll need $75 K net pa so as to help the folks.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Not necessarily. After a while your family resents you for being 'wealthy', and they start to expect you to buy them things. Once you stop, they hate your guts because you are greedy and selfish.

thats why i've decided to be really careful and not tell anyone about my finances. the only person who will know will be my parents. i'll have to be careful and not let the siblings hear about my property purchases. i dont want them to know!