Multiple issue re: tenant, need help as to how to proceed

kathryn d said:
It may be arrogant, but it is true, and when we do appeal, we show the Juducator, and then win.Our system is a little bit different. It starts as a private hearing with just the tenants, Director, and ourselves. If either side appeals, it goes to the Small Claims Court, where it is open to the public.On occassion, the Judicator has erred, Rob (AlmostBob) politley disagreed, and when the Judicator seemed surprised, asked where that info was located in the Act..Rob stated the page and paragraph...and Judicator thanked him,looked it up in the Act he has at his bench, while Rob was in the witness chair.

Learning from mistakes will take place in either country.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's arrogant at all. These people (magistrates and even lower court judges) are pretty clueless. What Nathan, also from NSW, surnamed Tinkler, calls a deadbeat.

I once went to a hearing where the maximum fine for a business-related civil case issue was $50,000. The judge awarded $50,000 against us. Our solicitor immediately raised the point that $50,000 was excessive because that's the maximum and we only breached the law slightly. The judge's response (yes this was a judge) was this was not excessive given the maximum fine was $2.5m. Solicitor said "er no your honour, it's $50k". The opposing counsel chimed in and said "your honour, yes it's actually $50k, not $2.5m".

The judge was all angry at getting it wrong, but she had to reduce the fine to $5000. I was thinking at the time "what a muppet this judge is" and "how silly and arbitrary is this system... if $50k is 2% of $2.5m shouldn't the new fine be reduced to $1k which is 2% of $50k?"

Muppetery system.
 
You can't really expect magistrates, registrars and even judges to know all the law by heart as it is too vast. You can't even expect them to have the law all in front of them as it is too vast - look at just the corporations act it must be thousands of pages just for the act.

Its the lawyers who have to tell the magistrate what the law is when they argue their case and to point out that the magistrate has the power to make any orders and on what basis.

I recently was involved in a proceeds of crime matter and we handed a copy of the act up to the judge and said what we wanted and that the court had the power to make the order under s66. So judge was able to look up the section and confirm. Also recently seen another lawyer challenge a registrar over sentancing a drink driving matter and he actually handed up his ipad2 with the legislation on it and proved the registrar was wrong (about when a sentance is to be imposed from). Registrar admitted he was wrong and applied and changed the sentance slightly. Another matter involving corporations act the registrar asked if she had the powers to make the orders we sought and stood the matter down while we had to search for caselaw to back up the claim she did.

Imagine how many cases a registrar deals with per day, possibly 100 or so.
 
Terryw said:
You can't really expect magistrates, registrars and even judges to know all the law by heart as it is too vast. You can't even expect them to have the law all in front of them as it is too vast - look at just the corporations act it must be thousands of pages just for the act.
Click to expand...

Sorry I strongly disagree with this statement, Owners demand (and they should) that PMs know the RTA inside and out, therefore i demand and expect that Magistrates prevailing over tenancy and OC matters should also know every nook and cranny of the relevant legislation. The members that hear tenancy matters are there only to hear tenancy matters and therefore should be experts as such. I understand that sometimes an error may occur or in some instances an unusal and complex case may require some additional research from the member, but on the whole they should know what they are ruling on without the PM, landlord or tenant sitting in front of them having to educate them!
 
Goofy said:
Sorry I strongly disagree with this statement, Owners demand (and they should) that PMs know the RTA inside and out, therefore i demand and expect that Magistrates prevailing over tenancy and OC matters should also know every nook and cranny of the relevant legislation. The members that hear tenancy matters are there only to hear tenancy matters and therefore should be experts as such. I understand that sometimes an error may occur or in some instances an unusal and complex case may require some additional research from the member, but on the whole they should know what they are ruling on without the PM, landlord or tenant sitting in front of them having to educate them!
Click to expand...

You can demand whatever you like. Doesn't mean that is what happens.

in the CTTT it is a bit different because they mainly deal with limited matters. So a member there is more likely to be across the laws involved.
 
Kerry - this is how it should look - while I know you feel the other information is important (and it is to you), as far as the external observer (CTTT included) is concerned, these are the key points.

As far as the tenant's claims are involved, you need to provide exactly what they said, and you do NOT need to justify why you think they are wrong - the list of events should speak for itself.


1) xx/xx/xx xx am/pm (include time if fixed on same day) - tenant notifies agent of blocked sewer. Rectified by <who> on xx/xx/xx xx am/pm. Tax Invoice available/not available

2) xx/01/11 garage was inundated (don't care why). Rectified by plumber on xx/xx/xx xx am/pm. Tax Invoice available/not available. (don't care why it took so long - it just did)

3) 01/06/11 tenant notifies agent oven door broken. xx/xx/11 agent instructed to fix by phone/email/fax/letter

4) 05/07/11 email received from agent tenant had started action against me through CTTT because oven was not fixed. Also included in email was attachment of quote from electrician advising that oven was irreparable and would need to be replaced

4b) xx/07/11 xx am/pm - I rang tenant myself & found out that oven was not working at all.

ac) xx/xx/11 Arranged for purchase of new oven and installation. Installed 19/07/11 Tax Invoice available/not available. (don't care it took 10 days - it just did) .

5) 20/07/11 - tenant rang & told us that hot water heater not working. Rectified by electrician on 21/07/11 xx am/pm. Tax Invoice available/not available.

6) 14/09/11 - tenant contacted agent re: light globes blowing. Rectified by electrician on xx/xx/11. Tax Invoice available/not available.

7) 02/10/11 - Tenant sent email to agent informing air conditioner not working. Agent emailed us 06/10/11 Arranged for aircon tech to attend 10/10/11. xx/xx/xx xx am/pm Advised tenant by phone/email/fax/other. Requested and given verbal/written consent to give the air con tech their phone number . xx/xx/xx emailed agent to inform them what was happening.

7b) 10/10/11 - agent rang asking what was happening because they'd received an abusive phone call from tenant re: air con repair. xx/xx/xx xx am/pm Tried to ring tenant no answer. xx/xx/xx xx am/pm Rang air con tech. He had been in contact with tenant and arranged to attend on 13th by mutual agreement.

7c) 13/10/11 Air con tech attended site. Suggested replacement of sensor. Part not in stock - ordered. xx am/pm Advised tenant by phone/email/fax/other.

7d) 18/10/11 - contacted air con tech & were informed that part had still not arrived. xx am/pm Advised tenant by phone/email/fax/other.

7d) 18/10/11 - contacted air con tech & were informed that part had still not arrived bu would contact tenants directly to arrange installation. xx am/pm Advised tenant by phone/email/fax/other.

7e) xx/xx/11 - air con tech attended site and installed part. Tax Invoice available/not available.


8) 04/11/11 - agent notified us that tenant was taking action with CTTT due to perceived unfair rent increase (proper notification given xx/xx/xx). (attach email - not your interpretation of the email and demands)


8b) xx/xx/xx agreed to the tenants request regarding rent increase. xx am/pm Advised tenant/agent by phone/email/fax/other.

9) xx/xx/xx New agnt took over

10) xx/xx/xx tenant gave 21 days notice to leave

11) 05/12/11 Tenant handed back keys. Agent inspectd site at xx pm.

12) 06/12/11 Attended site with agent. Advised agnt no to release bond unless following issues attenede to by exiting tenant (photos available/not available):
- place not cleand to a satisfactory level
- heat damage to kitchen benchtop
- damage to kitchen cabinets
- wall repaineted without prior permission
- damage to casing of aircon unit
- poorly attempted repair to bedroom door
- concrete slab on back patio area was covered in paint

12b) 09/12/11 agent emailed me to inform tenants will not comply with request, and asking advise on further action.

12c) 11/12/11 - sent email response on Sunday telling them not to release the bond and to try & get tenant to comply.

13) 24/12/11 - email from agent informing me that tenant
had once again started action against me with CTTT and this time was claiming compensation for just over $9000 due to various issues. (attach email - not your interpretation of the email and demands) [/B]
Click to expand...


The Y-man
 
Guess you can tell I do Post Incident Review (PIR) reports when things go cactus at my workplace and stakeholders want to know what happened.... :D

The Y-man
 
The Y-man said:
Guess you can tell I do Post Incident Review (PIR) reports when things go cactus at my workplace
Click to expand...

....no, I was thinking more along the lines of....

'this is what the datasheet looked like against me the last time I got slapped with, when I had a run in with my Landlord'.
 
wow sounds like kerry should hire you Y-Man
would i get discount if i needed your help seeings as im BMan.. :p (should be B-Man although someone else has it)
 
The Y-man said:
Kerry - this is how it should look - while I know you feel the other information is important (and it is to you), as far as the external observer (CTTT included) is concerned, these are the key points.

As far as the tenant's claims are involved, you need to provide exactly what they said, and you do NOT need to justify why you think they are wrong - the list of events should speak for itself.
The Y-man
Click to expand...

Kudos to you, Y-man.... you must have spent ages doing this. I hope the OP gets benefit from it, and appreciates it......and if not, that others do.
 
Hi Kerry,

Understandably you are under immense stress and anxiety with what I consider quite obviously a frivolous claim.

Remember that we are just trying to help and we feel your pain and anguish just by reading your posts, and even though our comments might appear to be rough at times, take it as tough love.

If you have not already seeked advice, speak to the RTA, seek (free) legal advice/legal aid. I did a quick google and found the following infos that may be of use, but please do your own due diligence of course.

http://www.clcnsw.org.au/looking_legal_advice.php

Here's previous orders by the CTTT which will give you an idea of how things are run:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/nsw/NSWCTTT/recent.html

If we can help you in any way, don't be shy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
Advice on negligent agent please
Replies
6
Views
2K
evisional
E
E
Legal issues on tenant agreement
Replies
6
Views
2K
Perp
Perp
J
Tenants seeking compensation
Replies
18
Views
3K
skater
skater
Xenia IM
Maintenance Issues
Replies
2
Views
1K
Xenia IM
Xenia IM
A
Tenant Requesting Evap cooling
2
Replies
24
Views
4K
Scott No Mates
Scott No Mates
Back
Top