My "Armchair Development" Experience
- Thread starter Crido
- Start date
Let's hope you're right!
It's been exactly three months since I posted an update on our 33 Windsor St project and in that time ... I don't have a lot to report! At least, not as much as I, as an investor, would have liked to report on!
EOS Property (Marketing and Investor Coordinator) and Bird Property Group (Development Manager) have been trying to secure a builder and a lender. The builder relies on the finance being in place and ... well, that still hasn't happened!
Yesterday we were asked in an email from EOS to take 24 hrs to sign-off on a (hopefully short-term, but unfortunately higher rate) building loan.
The loan is with "Lender D" for the first few months, with a view to (hopefully) refinance at a lower interest rate with "Lender P" or "Lender H" (not sure what rate yet?) once the other two EOS projects with "Lender P" are settled.
Well, the two EOS projects with "Lender P" settled during the last week, but I was told that until this time, "Lender P" "wouldn't touch us" and it will now take 2-3 months for the paperwork for a "Lender P" loan to get started and be approved (more delays!). Or, we could sign-off overnight / over the weekend and go with "Lender D" for a few months, then refinance with "P" or "H", but if this doesn't happen, we will have to stick with "Lender D" at a higher interest rate. This would cost investors a significant amount and mean taking a substantial chunk out of our expected profits!
Sorry for the D, P and H references, but I am trying to be somewhat discrete about our investment - I'm sure you understand!
It's a bit of a pickle to be in really ... our project timeline is blowing-out everyday it seems, but, we're still looking at the glass half full and we're confident our investment will be a good one long term!
Cheers,
Crido
Geez... The financing sounds very complicated...
I feel for you having to choose which way to go.
I hope it can get off the line and work
I hope it can get off the line and work
My thoughts are that the finance issue may have something to do with the bank having issues that they do not have any completed projects and the number of units they are building, perhaps see this as high risk??
I hope they can sort this out as soon as possible, alternatively if they do not get finance, deposits are paid back to investors sooner than later.
I hope they can sort this out as soon as possible, alternatively if they do not get finance, deposits are paid back to investors sooner than later.
OK, almost three months since my last update and ... not a lot to update you all on I'm afraid! 
Waiting on more council approvals (something to do with the size of the carparks?!), and lending arrangements are still being finalised!
When these hurdles are passed, our 12 month building contract will kick-in.
The project's original estimation of 16 months has blown-out massively to be around twice that now!
Crido
Waiting on more council approvals (something to do with the size of the carparks?!), and lending arrangements are still being finalised!
When these hurdles are passed, our 12 month building contract will kick-in.
The project's original estimation of 16 months has blown-out massively to be around twice that now!
Crido
OK, almost three months since my last update and ... not a lot to update you all on I'm afraid!
Waiting on more council approvals (something to do with the size of the carparks?!), and lending arrangements are still being finalised!
When these hurdles are passed, our 12 month building contract will kick-in.
The project's original estimation of 16 months has blown-out massively to be around twice that now!
Crido
As I sit here with my own development timelines blown out massively and in Council quagmire I am glad that I am only accountable to myself.
If I was responsible for other armchair investors looking to me for answers I wouldn't be able to give them.
So I feel for you and for them.
It's certainly no easy game.
I'm feeling weirdly relieved reading these stories.
The thing is Myf, they received DA approval in March 2013, what on earth has happened since??
I think it is pretty poor form that they have been launching more "investment opportunities" instead of focusing on the ones languishing and it doesnt sound like communication has been as good as it should have been.
I also believe that based on the structure they would have received the first lot of fees for acquiring the asset and putting the deal together, again poor form if this development goes nowhere.
I completely get that things do go wrong, i myself have made heeeeaaaps of mistakes in the past but the fact is imo they took on far too much at once an people like Crido appear to be paying the price.
Instead of realising their profit in 2014 which would give him the opportunity to reinvest it in other growing markets it looks like it will be 2015 at earliest which may mean missing out on current growth phase.
The whole financing thing makes me pretty nervous as well. Ultimately we are talking about a block of land bought for under what is current market value, with a DA for apartments in a market and area with extremely high demand for apartments AND with all apartments pretty much pre-sold to people like Crido, what is the hold up here? To me it raises a fair few doubts about the story being told.
Yes, very frustrating at the moment - the year is slipping by and not much is happening!
Apparently ... we're now waiting on council to approve the specs of our car parks before they'll sign-off on our Building Permit?!
And, apparently ... these car parks have the same specs as other EOS/Bird developments (that have been approved previously).
Starting to wonder! Continuing to be concerned!
Crido
Apparently ... we're now waiting on council to approve the specs of our car parks before they'll sign-off on our Building Permit?!
And, apparently ... these car parks have the same specs as other EOS/Bird developments (that have been approved previously).
Starting to wonder! Continuing to be concerned!
Crido
Just looking through old email correspondence ...
We first applied for our Building Licence on Feb 17!
Apparently council must reply within ten days, but each time it is submitted, council comes back with a question about the development that then restarts the ten days!!!
It's been ten weeks / seventy days on Monday since we first applied, so I presume they've knocked us back 5+ times ... ?!
Anyone know someone in Vincent Council?
Surely we can get this thing happening!!!
We first applied for our Building Licence on Feb 17!
Apparently council must reply within ten days, but each time it is submitted, council comes back with a question about the development that then restarts the ten days!!!
It's been ten weeks / seventy days on Monday since we first applied, so I presume they've knocked us back 5+ times ... ?!
Anyone know someone in Vincent Council?
Surely we can get this thing happening!!!
But even that isnt good enough, why 11 months to go from DA to build licence application??
Imo you need to start getting justifications for their inadequacies and look at exit strategies (if any) just in case
I was just thinking about this group as I receive emails as I have been watching closely where and what they are buying, their next project:
http://gallery.mailchimp.com/3ed58eca368eacb75dfa76953/files/Hamlyn_Terrace_profile.pdf
I am not sure they have even completed one project successfully.
Their Karratha project, timing was wrong, rents over estimated and also end value. I am sure some got burnt.
I would also be looking at an exist strategy, obviously when you are playing with someone else's money enables them to move on to next project.
Crido I hope it all works out, but in the mean time definitely look at an exit strategy and get on to them as per comments from Sanj
http://gallery.mailchimp.com/3ed58eca368eacb75dfa76953/files/Hamlyn_Terrace_profile.pdf
I am not sure they have even completed one project successfully.
Their Karratha project, timing was wrong, rents over estimated and also end value. I am sure some got burnt.
I would also be looking at an exist strategy, obviously when you are playing with someone else's money enables them to move on to next project.
Crido I hope it all works out, but in the mean time definitely look at an exit strategy and get on to them as per comments from Sanj
I also saw that - a big jump from the armchair development concept to selling house & land packages? No talk about below market value at completion surprisingly enough.
I still think some of the inner city perth developments may do well - the mini boom during that period would definately have helped.
Too goo to be True?
Hi Crido
How well did you do your Homework? How much have you paid? I found this when stalking a bloke called Giancarlo Danielle from Albany, who I'm doing some background checks on, of whom I'm a bit suspicious of. When I search his name it identifies him as a sole director of EOS Property Group. Is this the bloke you dealt with? I know he works in Perth a bit these days.
http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/consu...ry/About_Us/Licence_App_Outcomes/20110211.pdf
http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/appli...d-as-trustte-for-the-matr/trademarks/1538279/
http://www.fyple.biz/company/eos-property-group-7zeq77/
So I jump on EOS website and there's no contact details, only a 1300 number (alarm bells!), no street address, would make me suss!.
Hi Crido
How well did you do your Homework? How much have you paid? I found this when stalking a bloke called Giancarlo Danielle from Albany, who I'm doing some background checks on, of whom I'm a bit suspicious of. When I search his name it identifies him as a sole director of EOS Property Group. Is this the bloke you dealt with? I know he works in Perth a bit these days.
http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/consu...ry/About_Us/Licence_App_Outcomes/20110211.pdf
http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/appli...d-as-trustte-for-the-matr/trademarks/1538279/
http://www.fyple.biz/company/eos-property-group-7zeq77/
So I jump on EOS website and there's no contact details, only a 1300 number (alarm bells!), no street address, would make me suss!.
Building licence was approved and picked-up by our builder earlier this month (on, or a few days prior to, the 7th May).
The guys behind EOS are very approachable and reputable. Shoot them an email or call that 1300 number and they'll happily answer all your questions.
We have a 12 month building contract, where "Under the terms of the building contract the builder has 12 months from date license (sic) is issued to complete the project - albeit with some allowances (by agreement) for weather etc." (EOS email, 7th May 2014).
Thank goodness that wait is over!
Crido
The guys behind EOS are very approachable and reputable. Shoot them an email or call that 1300 number and they'll happily answer all your questions.
We have a 12 month building contract, where "Under the terms of the building contract the builder has 12 months from date license (sic) is issued to complete the project - albeit with some allowances (by agreement) for weather etc." (EOS email, 7th May 2014).
Thank goodness that wait is over!
Crido
