Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by Lou, 3rd Dec, 2009.
Nice quote Ian!
This is illegal in many states (I'm fairly certain), check the laws in that state and report them if you think its a hazard, there are reasons we have laws that don't allow people to do that.
I'm not a fan of people sticking their noses in others business, but you shouldn't be made to feel bad for reporting people for potentially ripping off members of the community because they have poor knowledge of how to look after themselves.
There's demand for plenty of things in this world, doesn't mean its a beautiful thing for someone to provide it.
You don't know if these kids are being exploited because of a lack of ability to function correctly in our society, is it also a beautiful thing when these same students get jobs off the books at some dodgy restaurant and get paid $8 an hr?
No she's not, she's in her own house and can have whatever culture she wants.
From what you have said you have very little to complain about, obviously she should have signed the form, you are merely contributing to household expenses, and I'm sure if you had of found that and showed her she would have done so (seeing as she offered even though she thought she might be doing something wrong and get into trouble, of course she should have found this out before renting the room too).
I have lived in a share house with 3 other people and every single person would invite whoever they wanted around whenever they felt like, I went and stayed in my brothers share house at times for weeks and of course he told them I was coming up, I would often sleep in the lounge room, none of them minded, and we used to drop around for visits unannounced, as did his housemates friends and family.
I think you will find Australians are clearly very different in what they will "put up with".
Agree. I've been in a similar situation and not a Chinese person in sight .
You'll probably find many of these people have very good knowledge of how to look after themselves.
Living in a shed or sharing a room with 2 others often means paying a fraction of what they would compared to living in a conventional share house.
It's often not the landlord letting the place to all these people but the tenants subletting or inviting others in to reduce the rent they pay.
Why did you sign up when you were obviously uncomfortable with both the legal situation and the culural situation.
****, the lady invited her family, might have been a bit confronting but nothing to do with the examples of overcrowded boarding houses. The thoughts of your said uncle or whatever obviously affected you whether you know it or not.
Report her if you think it's wrong and that you have to... dont put up with it if you dont want to.
but dont expect everyone in australia to agree with you and get upset when some dont and you offend their sensibilities and they explain their view to you after you've thrown yours in their face.
Yes. It's great. A win/win situation. Exchanging labour for money.
Not when they should be paying them closer to $15-20 an hour, that's not win win, its win/exploited.
We have a set of laws in this country that basically says if your can't run your business by employing people at a certain wage, declaring it, paying any penalty rates etc, then you have no place being in business.
So is it good if they work for $5 an hour and some leftover food? Where do you draw the line? Or do you think that if someone agrees to something its all good, its just win/win, exploiting peoples desperation isn't a bad thing, its win/win, they get spoiled food and enough money for the bus/rent from their basically full time job and the guy running the restaurant/fast food place gets hell of a lot more money in his pocket than he otherwise would.
Great example of morality vs legality. Completely mis-matched in this instance.
In a nutshell, yes. As long as both parties agree and neither is forced, then it's win/win, and the 'laws' (in this case award wages) should butt out.
Your not confusing students with illegal immigrants or refugees are you?
Students lacking in ability to function correctly in society .
Many would would run rings around some of the sheltered Aussie students.
I know 2 students working in a chicken factory, 1 fulltime at a BP and two taxi drivers. All study fulltime.
I do know 1 person working for cash at an Asian restaurant but he's an Australian resident on Centerlink .
Or at least no place in Australia. That's why so much labour-intensive industry has been lost to other countries, like China, Vietnam, and Korea.
If the alternative is not working at all, because no one is willing to employ them for more than that, then yes, it's good. If I was that person and needed money, I'd willingly take $5 an hour over no job any day.
Yeah, and I think the point is, you'd like to have a choice, whereas stupid laws like award wages take away that choice.
I agree with your sentiment, ianvestor, as I'm very pro-market forces and pro-small government, but what's your proposed mechanism for ensuring the bolded part above, in the absence of an award?
And I don't have a problem with somebody working for $5 per hour provided it's declared and appropriate taxes, super, etc, are paid by both parties. I acknowledge that our tax system has many inequities, but the solution to that is to work for changes to the tax system, not to defraud your fellow taxpayer.
How about the absence of a ball-and-chain? The absense of actually kid-napping the employee and locking them in at work so you can pay them their $5/hour?
I mean, if he shows up of his own accord and says "I'm here, I'd like to work for my $5/hour now", I don't see why anyone or any law should stop him.
And sure, why not declare it and pay tax. I doubt he'd actually have to pay much tax if any anyway.
OK, I think your definition of "force" is a little more extreme than mine.
I do agree that quite often the law goes too far, eg "he was unemployed, he had no choice but to take it", or "the owner wouldn't negotiate" isn't being forced, that's the market operating to reward in accordance with the value you contribute.
But what about people with mental illness, for example? What if somebody has symptoms which don't prevent them from doing menial work such as stacking supermarket shelves just as well as anybody else, but give them a complete inability to comprehend the significance of the pay being offered? If their co-workers get paid, say, $15 per hour, but the manager sees that this person has some mental challenges and they can get away with paying him only $5 per hour, would you consider that reasonable? Or would you expect that his friends and family would step in to prevent such exploitation?
I think that would depend on the quality of the work the mentally-challenged person was able to do. Like everyone else, if the person can expect more than is being offered given their abilities, then they're free to go elsewhere.
However, if the person is so mentally challenged that they don't even understand what's happening, yet their services are still of value, then a guardian should help negotiate things like this on their behalf.
Yeah, to be honest I think the word is a little over-used in the lighter context. Good reply GP.
Agreed! So when do we take over Australia's industrial relations?
Let's start now... I'd like to propose an arrangement where individuals in Australia can go to their Workplace and make a mutual Agreement with their employer about working conditions
Yep so i know you possibly won't see this, and i shouldn't waste my time but you've greatly p*ssed me off..
I'm not of any Asian decent, but honestly, get off your high horse there are plently of Australian's that do the same thing.
Stop complaining that she wouldn't sign a stupid form, you know she wouldn't have to and you wouldn't be out of pocket if you got off you a*se and GOT A JOB!
I must say i'm quite opinionated when people sit on their behinds and do nothing and expect the government to pay their way, oh and for the record it's not the government, it's the people WORKING that help pay YOUR way, now that's not fair, and you're complaining about this situation.
I assure you $200 a week is plenty to find your own house without shared accomodation where you don't have to worry about someone "rorting" the system..
Step back and look at the big picture here, you're not always right darling, it's life, it's unfair blah blah blah, LIVE WITH IT!
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