Neighbour trees pushing fence

[WesternRat]

Hi people,

I am starting my duplex build, and one of the neighbours is being a pain about the fences. First thing, the fence was over on my side in some places according to an official site survey, but he said because the fence has been there for decades, he will not agree to move the fence. That's fine, its only a few cm that I can't be bothered fighting over with for an IP.

But he has 6 massive palm trees right up against (within 50 cm) the old asbestos fencing between our property, and the trees are pushing some of the fence over that it has become warped and buckled. I am installing Colorbond fencing around the rest of the property after construction is complete, and obviously want this part in Colorbond to match. The asbestos fence is still standing, but looks dangerous with the trees pushing some of it over. I am also concerned about the trees falling over in a storm given their size, and smashing my new driveway and houses.

Before I approach him or the Council about this, I want to know where I stand and if I can:
- Get him to remove the 6 palm trees on the boundary
- Pay for half the costs of removing the dilapidated asbestos fence and installing new fence

Given how difficult and rude he has been so far, I have a feeling he won't comply. What are my legal rights here?

Thanks in advance,

 

[INVSTOR]

If fence is still standing I doubt you can do anything. The new super 6 lasts about 12 - 14 years, asbestos seems to last a lot longer. Pray for a massive wind storm before you start your build.

 

[RPI]

I assume it is in WA

http://www.buildingcommission.wa.gov.au/consumers/dividing-fences

D

 

[WesternRat]

Yup in WA - have read the guidelines, but not sure exactly what a "sufficient" fence entails in this regard. The fence is still standing, but is badly buckled in various places where it is being pushed over - is this still considered sufficient, or a hazard?

Will speak to council after Xmas break, but they usually don't want to help with issues related to dividing fences.

 

[S.T]

I think there may be a provision to claim a deduction for removing anything asbestos under an environmental act. I'll dig around online and see what I can find. This may make removing old fence an easier decision.

Edit, found link from Api. www.apimagazine.com.au/api-online/n...takes-action-on-removing-asbestos-from-houses

 

[Dazz]

Hi Western Rat,


The way I read the Act, along with the attached guidelines, is that you are quite within your rights to simply remove the existing fence and simply erect a brand spanking new one, on your official surveyed boundary, at your sole cost.


A lot of the brouhaha comes about when adjoining neighbours wish for the other party to pay for half....and then all of the notices and official stuff needs to come into play.


Simply hire a fencing contractor to take down the fence and replace it with whatever you wish to match the rest of your property along the new survey pegs....and pay for it yourself.


There is no need to even involve the neighbour.....unless you wish to worm him up for 1/2 the cost, which will then get very messy.


The grumpy neighbour next door cannot do anything about it.


Take plenty of photos. He can't exactly complain to anyone about having an old asbestos or buckled super six fence being replaced with a brand new Colorbond fence.


What would his complaint be ?? I'm unhappy about having my old warped fence replaced with a brand spanking new straight one for free ??


Get out your cheque book, give the order to the contractor and get it done.

 

[lizzie]

I think Western Rat might be more concerned about the 6 trees that are damaging the current fence ... if not removed they will also damage the new colorbond fence too.

Are they inside the neighbours boundary - or imposing on your side?

If inside the neighbours then there is not much you can do about it - asides from mention to them that you will pay for the fence, but it will be damaged by the trees. Are you also prepared to pay for the tree removal if he agrees?

Often it is simply the neighbour doesn't have any money - or is to tight - to pay for a fence, but are embarrased to say so, so instead get aggressive and create a brohaha to compensate.

p.s. Palm trees generally don't fall down - and shed very little leaf litter - so get your insurance in place and don't worry about them falling ... if they were gum trees then I'd have a very different opinion

 

[wylie]

But he has 6 massive palm trees right up against (within 50 cm) the old asbestos fencing between our property, and the trees are pushing some of the fence over that it has become warped and buckled. I am installing Colorbond fencing around the rest of the property after construction is complete, and obviously want this part in Colorbond to match. The asbestos fence is still standing, but looks dangerous with the trees pushing some of it over. I am also concerned about the trees falling over in a storm given their size, and smashing my new driveway and houses.

I'm not sure how they can be pushing some of the fence over if they are "within 50cm" of the existing fence?

I'm thinking if I was your neighbour and you wanted new fencing for your new development, but the fence that is already there is doing the job (ugly or not), then I wouldn't be happy to pay anything towards it.

If you do go ahead and replace an existing fence with one you prefer the look of, and if those palm trees are in the way, or close enough that they will damage the new colourbond panels, then perhaps you can do something creative where those are. Maybe do the colourbond for most of the length of the fence line and have more "flexible" panels where the palms are? Maybe chain wire in panels with brush panels attached to hide the ugly chain wire?

I just believe if the fence is working, he has no obligation to pay to have something more attractive. But you can do so at your own expense and choose whatever you want.

 

[WesternRat]

Thanks for the replies. Yes more concerned about the trees pushing the existing fence, whether it is new or not, and falling over. The property will be a rental and I don't want the fence or trees falling over/being pushed over and injuring or damaging anything.

I don't even mind if the same existing fence is reused, as long as the trees are removed and the fence is straightened.

Can councils demand trees to be removed if they are deemed a hazard?

 

[Dazz]

I don't even mind if the same existing fence is reused, as long as the trees are removed and the fence is straightened.

Ah, the fence isn't the problem.

You want the neighbour to chop down the trees that are on their land.

You've got Buckley's of that happening.

If I was your neighbour, I'd tell you to take a flying leap and mind your own business. The trees on their land are none of your business.

 

[cu@thetop]

Only way to get the neighbour to remove the trees is to buy his lot from him. Dazz has hit the issue on the head.
I am having exactly the same issue with my front neighbour-ie the Council. They can take my banches but they will never take my Treedom! (ie the trunk on my land).
Council can go get fornicated.

 

[handyandy]

Palm trees are not exactly trees.

Depending on the type of palm tree they would not push on anything as they grow straight up.

Do you mean that the root ball is being pushed out of the ground?

How about some pics to see the situation.

Cheers

 

[WesternRat]

Ok, yeh it might be the tree root ball lifting up the entire ground next to the fence - either way, you guys are saying there's nothing I can do to stop these trees pushing the fence over into my property??? So I just have to sit and suck it up and watch my land disappear? That doesn't sound right.

 

[wylie]

Ok, yeh it might be the tree root ball lifting up the entire ground next to the fence - either way, you guys are saying there's nothing I can do to stop these trees pushing the fence over into my property??? So I just have to sit and suck it up and watch my land disappear? That doesn't sound right.

How is your land disappearing due to a fence being pushed over?

 

[WesternRat]

As mentioned, the fence is buckling and warped. At ground level also (which I may have not have mentioned). When viewed from the top, parts of the fence look like a curve, like the letter S (bit of an exaggeration).

 

[wylie]

Does that mean that the trunk of the tree is actually shared, partly in your yard. If so, you may have a better case for requesting its removal?

But it doesn't mean you are losing your yard.

We just cleared the fenceline on an IP ourselves as most of the bushes and trees were in our yard. There was one tree blocking the path of the new fence that was actually growing in the yard next door but leaning over into our yard and blocking any new fence going in. We chopped it out (with the owner's approval - she is also a landlord and this neighbouring house is rented like ours is rented).

If she didn't want it chopped out, we would have asked the fencer to place two posts either side of it and bend the chain wire around the tree. If it was a timber fence, we would have cut the palings around the trunk.

 

[fernfurn]

If there are huge rootballs pushing up your land (and therefore the fence) on your side, and you had to cut into those to put up the new fence, would that (what a shame) eventually kill the palm trees

 

[Sean M]

pictures tell a thousand words!

 

[theperthurbanist]

What council are you in? If there is significant damage to the fence (i.e if the fence is no longer 'sufficient') then you may have an argument for replacing the cost and recouping 50%. Worth chatting to the surveyor or similar at your local council. Best to speak to someone who has been around for awhile, as if there is no policy on this exact issue (there likely isn't) then they will still be able to tell you if there is a precedent for similar cases being won if you decide to get a determination.

That all being said, just yesterday I contacted the City of Bayswater with a similar query (I have old asbestos fencing I would like to replace and in one location the neighbours very large palm trunk has grown out and cracked the fence). The City was, however, less than useful - the young guy I spoke to didn't know of any similar cases (on this or any other issue) that had been determined.

As an aside, I am also getting the local health officer to come out and inspect the asbestos fence and tell me if the areas that are degrading pose any health risk. If so I doubt that will be legal grounds for having the neighbours pay 50% to remove/replace it, but it might certainly give me some bargaining power in my 'friendly discussions' with them.

 

[theperthurbanist]

I think there may be a provision to claim a deduction for removing anything asbestos under an environmental act. I'll dig around online and see what I can find. This may make removing old fence an easier decision.

Edit, found link from Api. www.apimagazine.com.au/api-online/n...takes-action-on-removing-asbestos-from-houses

Thanks for sharing simtr! I wonder if any progress has been made in setting up subsidies for asbestos removal. I'll have to do some research.