from what i can remember, Jenmen theory claims to always acheives the highest price for the vendor, who has employed them... Then why on earth would you want to buy with an agent following that method?
Neil Jenman’s theories on real estate
- Thread starter stevie_sloth
- Start date
Theory and practice don't always align.....
In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.
I have just finished reading Ordinary Millionaires by Jim McKnight (an excellent read). The book is basically a set of interviews by people that have lots of experience in this stuff.
One key takeaway point was "Never sell through an agent". If I ever sold, I would try to do it myself.
Famous last words
Vendor Beware
I read the Jenman book and as a buyer I thought it was fantastic. Let me state upfront: some agents are brilliant - I've met a few - and others do their job in the laziest way imaginable. That's just like any profession.
I think the Jenman book accurately identifies the real risks a vendor faces if they get a dud agent, and highlights the weaknesses a canny buyer can exploit to get a good bargain.
When I bought an IP around a year ago, a LOT of agents gave me a lot more information than they should have (unnecessarily, especially because it was a fairly hot market), while others politely declined to undermine their clients bargaining positions.
I have no vested interest and I recommend the Jenman book as a very useful resource.
Any good agent has nothing to fear from this book. And I think a lot of agents could learn to be better at what they do, by reading this book.
As a seller, I might choose to auction a property in a hot market where emotion and competition might fuel a higher price. But overall, I think Jenman's criticisms of auctions are justified, particularly in a situation where the property fails to meet the reserve - which seems to be happening a lot more often recently.
I read the Jenman book and as a buyer I thought it was fantastic. Let me state upfront: some agents are brilliant - I've met a few - and others do their job in the laziest way imaginable. That's just like any profession.
I think the Jenman book accurately identifies the real risks a vendor faces if they get a dud agent, and highlights the weaknesses a canny buyer can exploit to get a good bargain.
When I bought an IP around a year ago, a LOT of agents gave me a lot more information than they should have (unnecessarily, especially because it was a fairly hot market), while others politely declined to undermine their clients bargaining positions.
I have no vested interest and I recommend the Jenman book as a very useful resource.
Any good agent has nothing to fear from this book. And I think a lot of agents could learn to be better at what they do, by reading this book.
As a seller, I might choose to auction a property in a hot market where emotion and competition might fuel a higher price. But overall, I think Jenman's criticisms of auctions are justified, particularly in a situation where the property fails to meet the reserve - which seems to be happening a lot more often recently.
Jenman doesn't like the "open house". This is a great advantage for the agent by giving a monopoly/stranglehold on the info received by the seller as to market interest.
The only people who will see the house are ones who have 1st approached the RE (and vetted) but this narrows prospective list of purchasers.
I would consider buying thru a Jenamn agent (once property has gone stale) but I would never sell through one.
The only people who will see the house are ones who have 1st approached the RE (and vetted) but this narrows prospective list of purchasers.
I would consider buying thru a Jenamn agent (once property has gone stale) but I would never sell through one.
Isnt that the same with any house listed with an agent?
And what do you mean by 'vetted'? Agents pretty much let anyone check out a house that shows interest.
They're generally not big on qualifying prospects or even know what it means.
And what do you mean by 'vetted'? Agents pretty much let anyone check out a house that shows interest.
They're generally not big on qualifying prospects or even know what it means.
Very cynical but very true. Don' play the Jenman game? Then no way you get to even look inside the house.
I remember a client who showed me some Jenman correspondence when listing with a Jenman agent. Asket the clent to list what price they would be happy with, what price they would accept (but not be doing cartwheels), and what price they would be unhappy with. This was in lieu of a comparative market analysis. This particular agent was a dirtbag so maybe some of the other Jenamn agents are better.
Jenman prides himself on the qualifying point but you are right in that the RE industry seems to attract many sub optimals working in it.
The jenman one here likes to qualify you. we had an agent in there go off his nut (where we could hear) when we last bought from them. We had put a contract on a different property with him 12 months earlier and it fell over on finance. He carried on a treat that we had been allowed to put a contract on another place as we weren't "qualified" for it. We did end up buying it but I would never willingly use that agency ever again. When they advertise a property for sale up here I use that price as the lowest that it is possible to get for the area/style of house.
I think that Jenman forgets human nature.
I think that Jenman forgets human nature.
Has anyone seen the movie/doco Freakonomics? They discuss a huge range of things in it but the very first part talks about REA and how their incentives aren't aligned with their clients. Such an interesting doco! They use sales data to show that REA get more money when they sell their own homes than when they sell someone else's home. The data shows when selling their own property REA hold out for a better price and leave their homes on the market on average 10 days longer.
Hi Stevie Sloth,
As a buyers advocate I find many/most Jenman agents painful to deal with and less professional.
But I LOVE buying through them because I find their properties sit on the market for a very long time and I am usually able to buy lower than market value.
When I was a real estate agent I used to end up with a lot of ex - jenman listed properties that sat on the market for a very long time and did not sell. I am sure there are many who have had a good experience using a Jenman agent, as a general rule, based on my experience I personally would never sell through one.
There are many reasons I believe they are not a good choice which I am happy to share with you if you are seriously considering a Jenman agent over others.
Otherwise here are some things I would advise my clients to do if they were selling:
1) Attend open for inspections in your area. Realistically and non - emotionally compare your property to each one on the market.
2) Do not tell any of the agents you are thinking of selling - act as though you are a buyer and see how he treats you as a buyer.
3) Ask them questions about the property to see if they give anything away regarding what the vendor wants for the property, pointoing out down sides of properety ect, attentiveness etc
4)choose the agent that is tight lipped and does not talk down the property the minute he opens his mouth. You also want to see that they followed you up and returned phone calls as a buyer, so do a little testing.
I have purchased many properties under market value for clients becuase agents have bad mouthed and talked the property down, I love buying through these agents but never sell through them.
4) Draw up a pro's and cons list on your own property (keep it to yourself, it is just a way to realistically compare your property to others on the market)
As a seller you must know what else you can buy in your area with the same amount money you are asking, because that is excatly how a buyer will look at it.This will also addess any fears you may have of "conditioning"
If they can get an extra bedroom or extra garage etc for the same price they will buy the other property. Unless you create a wow factor in your property.
5) Buyers will pay more if they fall in love and become emotional about a property. Find out what buyers want and give it to them if you can. If your investment up front is less than what you will get out the other side (ie render and decking can add $40K value to a home in some areas but only cost $12K to do)
6) Present your property properly for sale. Little things liek a small hole in the wall, dirty bathrooms, holes in screens, broken things may only cost $1000 to repair but in a buyers mind reduce the value og the property upwards of $20K. Best first impressions happen with front gardens and front entrance, fresh paint, new carpet, decluttering etc. They all add significant value for small $ and time investment upfront.
7) As someone else said on this thread - you are in control and in charge. If you are realistic about price and know what is selling in your area you should know exactly what you can get for the property and will not be forced to sell.
8) Conditioning: sometimes it is necessary - especially if the agent has intentionally over quoted. In some areas this is standard practice to get listings, in other areas agents are excpetional and provide more realistic guides to their vendors. If you know what is on the market and what has sold recently that is comparable, you will not be "conditioned" as you will already be informed. Its the pie in the sky vendors who usually needs conditioning, one who has not done their homework
I hope this helps
PS _ I did not address the Auction side of things as you stated they do not go well in your area so ii figured it was not going to be a helpful topic to pursue.
PPS there are certainly excellent agents out there, you just have to pretend to be a buyer to find out who they are. In most cases you want the one that gives nothing away.
As a buyers advocate I find many/most Jenman agents painful to deal with and less professional.
But I LOVE buying through them because I find their properties sit on the market for a very long time and I am usually able to buy lower than market value.
When I was a real estate agent I used to end up with a lot of ex - jenman listed properties that sat on the market for a very long time and did not sell. I am sure there are many who have had a good experience using a Jenman agent, as a general rule, based on my experience I personally would never sell through one.
There are many reasons I believe they are not a good choice which I am happy to share with you if you are seriously considering a Jenman agent over others.
Otherwise here are some things I would advise my clients to do if they were selling:
1) Attend open for inspections in your area. Realistically and non - emotionally compare your property to each one on the market.
2) Do not tell any of the agents you are thinking of selling - act as though you are a buyer and see how he treats you as a buyer.
3) Ask them questions about the property to see if they give anything away regarding what the vendor wants for the property, pointoing out down sides of properety ect, attentiveness etc
4)choose the agent that is tight lipped and does not talk down the property the minute he opens his mouth. You also want to see that they followed you up and returned phone calls as a buyer, so do a little testing.
I have purchased many properties under market value for clients becuase agents have bad mouthed and talked the property down, I love buying through these agents but never sell through them.
4) Draw up a pro's and cons list on your own property (keep it to yourself, it is just a way to realistically compare your property to others on the market)
As a seller you must know what else you can buy in your area with the same amount money you are asking, because that is excatly how a buyer will look at it.This will also addess any fears you may have of "conditioning"
If they can get an extra bedroom or extra garage etc for the same price they will buy the other property. Unless you create a wow factor in your property.
5) Buyers will pay more if they fall in love and become emotional about a property. Find out what buyers want and give it to them if you can. If your investment up front is less than what you will get out the other side (ie render and decking can add $40K value to a home in some areas but only cost $12K to do)
6) Present your property properly for sale. Little things liek a small hole in the wall, dirty bathrooms, holes in screens, broken things may only cost $1000 to repair but in a buyers mind reduce the value og the property upwards of $20K. Best first impressions happen with front gardens and front entrance, fresh paint, new carpet, decluttering etc. They all add significant value for small $ and time investment upfront.
7) As someone else said on this thread - you are in control and in charge. If you are realistic about price and know what is selling in your area you should know exactly what you can get for the property and will not be forced to sell.
8) Conditioning: sometimes it is necessary - especially if the agent has intentionally over quoted. In some areas this is standard practice to get listings, in other areas agents are excpetional and provide more realistic guides to their vendors. If you know what is on the market and what has sold recently that is comparable, you will not be "conditioned" as you will already be informed. Its the pie in the sky vendors who usually needs conditioning, one who has not done their homework
I hope this helps
PS _ I did not address the Auction side of things as you stated they do not go well in your area so ii figured it was not going to be a helpful topic to pursue.
PPS there are certainly excellent agents out there, you just have to pretend to be a buyer to find out who they are. In most cases you want the one that gives nothing away.
LPP, interesting comments. I also recall meeting some people, who went back to a Jenman agent, and said that they wanted a second inspection on a property of interest to them, to which the agent replied, well, its your lucky day, I just spoke to the owner, and they reduced their price $10,000. Neil, also introduced the 365 day exclusive agency, in States where their was no restriction. It insured that the those States followed through with restrictions fairly quickly. He stated early in his career, that he wanted to be different. Some people thought the differences were good ones, others had a different view. Now, how differnt is that.
I did watch a TV program where NJ helped a group of sellers in NZ. I thought he did a brilliant job at helping the sellers understand how to interview an agent for the job, how to negotiate the authority to sell etc, he certainly empowered all of them, which I am all for!
I gained a lot of respect for him watching that show, but still, after experiencing his "system", I would never sell through them, ever.
I gained a lot of respect for him watching that show, but still, after experiencing his "system", I would never sell through them, ever.
Thanks so much LPP, that was a really good, informative and helpful post!
