Network 21 (Amway)

[Perp]

Showed me their members website of products ie. everyday consumer items like toothpaste, soft drinks etc which he said were cheaper than the supermarkets.

I had some poor bugger - who I felt really sorry for, actually - try and get me into Amway by inviting me to discuss with him an "online grocery store business" that he was wanting to get going. I hadn't heard that angle before, and didn't realise it was Amway - until he arrived at our home in a suit.

He foolishly tried to sell it to me using two primary angles that were fundamentally flawed:

1) Save yourself the hassle of going to the supermarket!

Me, immediately: "oh, so you do milk and meat?"

Him: "No, we don't do any perishables"

Me: "So don't I now just have to shop in two places rather than one?"

2) Wouldn't you rather pay wholesale than retail?

Me: "not if buying wholesale is in exchange for selling my soul by trying to sign up my friends and family, no; I'd rather pay retail and sleep at night".

grossreal, I truly mean no offence to you: you get something out of it, good for you. And no, you haven't tried to sign me up. You obviously have found a way to make it work for you that avoids some of the biggest pitfalls of these businesses (ie the pester factor, and secretiveness, etc). But I'd suggest that you are, in my experience, the exception: the vast majority who sign up have an experience very much like pennyk's.

And regarding the passive ongoing income: I've been told - again by several who've trodden this path before - that this is a bit of a myth. Even if you are one of the ones who persists with it, the chances are that a large number of the people that you've recruited will drop out, and with them, your "passive" income. Several people I know who built up incomes (nothing flash, but maybe $1-2K per month part-time) were spending an enormous number of hours maintaining that level. People were constantly dropping out and they were having to continually recruit more people to replace those who fell by the wayside. They definitely would have earned more spending that time packing shelves at the supermarket.

 

[attrill]

Having struggled to get through Grosreal's posts, I just don't think I could handle one of his presentations...

 

[josko]

Ozperp, You have got it right there.

There was no such thing as passive income from what I was doing. The time I spent trying to push people to succeed was damn frustrating.

I had a Mary Kay "business".

I think it was quite similar to Amway.

I actually did quite well for a while. I really believed in the product and was making a reasonable income from it. I have a large group of friends and just wanted to make a few dollars after my second baby.

The earlier stage of the business is actually quite easy, just like having a Tupperware party...a few friends..a few wines...a chat etc.

It all fell down when my "Team Leader" pushed me to sign up my clients/friends. I would earn a percentage of what MY clients made. So I lost my most valuable clients because I signed them all up to start their own businesses!

I grew continually frustrated at the lack of drive and ambition that 99% of them had. I had to keep pushing them and at the same time source new clients. How do you do this?

We attended events like Race Meetings and tricked people into giving you their numbers to receive a "Free" Makeover etc. I'm simply telling you how it is, but at the time I didn't see it like that. I started to get really uncomfortable with the whole thing and REFUSED to bother my friends which was continually suggested to me. If there is one thing I can't stand, it's a greedy Salesman!

So now, a few friends and I all put in a big order once a year to keep our 50% discount going.

I have to say though, that it was a good learning experience and it sure did give me an insight into why some people succeed and MOST don't.


Regards JO

 

[joanmc]

Hi All
I am with GR on this one! We were in Amway for 10 years. We never did well in the business side but it changed our lives in that we learned that there was more out therer than the 9-5.

We were exposed to fabulous books that we never knew existed before most importantly Rich dad, poor Dad. We listened to tapes (now its CDs) and read and read and read. We mixed with people who were excited about their futures and we applied everything we learned to our everyday life.

We started to see that there are opportunities everywhere. We learned the difference between self employed and a business owner. We learned to invest in ourselves and our future.

We learned about people skills, different personalities and how to relate to different people.


Yes, we showed it to our families, once, and none got in but you know what we talk about Real Estate investing to them too and guess what, none of them have gotten into that either! So the issue there is that they aren't going to improve their life in ANY way, let alone Amway.

How many of you have family and friends that think your nuts for being investors? "oooh, that's risky" "what are you doing that for?" "think you're some kinda business man now do ya?" are all responses I have had to Amway, RE investing and Share trading! Go figure!

We made about $100 in bonuses.

BUT our education and what we learned about ourselves...priceless.

 

[josko]

Hi All
I am with GR on this one! We were in Amway for 10 years. We never did well in the business side but it changed our lives in that we learned that there was more out therer than the 9-5.

We were exposed to fabulous books that we never knew existed before most importantly Rich dad, poor Dad. We listened to tapes (now its CDs) and read and read and read. We mixed with people who were excited about their futures and we applied everything we learned to our everyday life.

We started to see that there are opportunities everywhere. We learned the difference between self employed and a business owner. We learned to invest in ourselves and our future.

We learned about people skills, different personalities and how to relate to different people.


Yes, we showed it to our families, once, and none got in but you know what we talk about Real Estate investing to them too and guess what, none of them have gotten into that either! So the issue there is that they aren't going to improve their life in ANY way, let alone Amway.

How many of you have family and friends that think your nuts for being investors? "oooh, that's risky" "what are you doing that for?" "think you're some kinda business man now do ya?" are all responses I have had to Amway, RE investing and Share trading! Go figure!

We made about $100 in bonuses.

BUT our education and what we learned about ourselves...priceless.

Hi Joan,

You are right there about these types of businesses. They do teach you alot about yourself. They also teach you alot about other people. I have always been able to mix with people from all walks of life, so was not suprised there.

However, you don't need to start an Amway business to read books like Kiyosaki's and I have to say there is HUGE difference between Amway and Investing.

The success of my Investment Portfolio does not in anyway depend on the success of other's.

Am I wrong in assuming that Amway does?

Regards JO

 

[grossreal]

hi all
well at least one person can understand even if they were in amway.
what does it gain you.
the thing that is posted here all the time
knowledge
people come here left right and center asking how do I learn this and how do I learn that and to me its simple
as for understand my post I have been thru that before
hard soft easy or not is not an issue for me.
I talk to people that have very little grasp of english and I think on this new project its going to be the same
I train my investors
I train the people I work with and they train me.
and this is people skills
and people skills training requires a couple of things
meeting people
talking to people
understanding people(and thats a very hard one)
understanding people wants and requirements and last but not least finishing a deal
now does this sound like amway
does this sound like macdonalds
does this sound like holden car dealership or does it sound like all of the above
josko
success in investing, real estate, even shares always depends on other for a start it depend on a vendor.
if you were armed with knowledge would that make you a better investor.
if you were armed with posture would that make you a better investor
are you more liking to buy a house if you are confident then if you were negative and worried
are you going to do any business if you have the ability to say thats fine thats your opinion but I think I will go this way and have the training to make those choices.
Am I wrong in assuming that Amway does?
what are you assuming.
for me never assume anything
why simple *** u and me if you brek it up
gain knowledge under stadn but don't assume
amway does not live or die on one person or it would have been closed along time a go.
as for
I have to say there is HUGE difference between Amway and Investing.
I will agree to disagree on this point
everyone iinvests in what they like and in some case what they dislike for a margin
but amway is not on trial here
its a system and if you decide or not is your choice
have t0 go

 

[joanmc]

Sorry jo But I mustn't have made my point clear.

I don't come from a family of investors nor does my hubby. We thought that struggle was our lot in life as we didn't have anyone tell us different. I didn't know there were books out there like kiyosakis until I was in Amway. I didn't know that anyone could invest and be successful until I was in Amway. I didn't know a lot of stuff.

All I am saying is that it opened our eyes to opportunities. One book lead to another and so on. I didn't realise that mindset can play a huge part in someone's success.

I guess I am saying that just because it isn't for you doesn't mean it is no good at all. I notice there is a lot of negative responses on this forum to share investing and that's fine but just because most here don't do it doesn't mean it doesn't have any value as a strategy. same goes for Amway and many other MLMs, it is just another strategy.

It was very good for us and even though we didn't have direct financial benefit from it , indirectly it set us free.

 

[willair]

"GR",not sure if you have read a book by Michael Ryan,There's Gotta Be A Catch,there are several others out there about"Amway" but that book tells the whole story,there are a few others"The Winners Circle","An Uncommomn Freedom",and "Promises To Keep" by Charles Paul Conn i have read all the above books and it is well advised to listen to those who have introduced you to the opportunity-after all,they are already doing it..imho..willair

 

[Rolf Latham]

Hiya Joan

Thats not uncommon feedback from people that have become involved with many motivational systems with many MLMs.

Other positive feedback is that what people learn along the way ( whether they are active or not) has often increase their earning potential in their PAYG jobs or their businesses.

The biggest challenge I believe in many cases is that people draw conclusions that a product or a company is BAD. Usually that isnt the case, the EXPOSURE to a person or a group of people not directly related to the "company" has usually caused that. I have said it before, if you get involved make sure the "upline" and the training systems are in alliance with your value set.

ta
rolf

 

[josko]

Sorry jo But I mustn't have made my point clear.

I don't come from a family of investors nor does my hubby. We thought that struggle was our lot in life as we didn't have anyone tell us different. I didn't know there were books out there like kiyosakis until I was in Amway. I didn't know that anyone could invest and be successful until I was in Amway. I didn't know a lot of stuff.

All I am saying is that it opened our eyes to opportunities. One book lead to another and so on. I didn't realise that mindset can play a huge part in someone's success.

I guess I am saying that just because it isn't for you doesn't mean it is no good at all. I notice there is a lot of negative responses on this forum to share investing and that's fine but just because most here don't do it doesn't mean it doesn't have any value as a strategy. same goes for Amway and many other MLMs, it is just another strategy.

It was very good for us and even though we didn't have direct financial benefit from it , indirectly it set us free.

Hi Joan,

I'm glad you benefited from it and I was not meaning to "judge" anyone that does manage Amway or any other similar business. As I mentioned above and agree with you, there are brenefits from this.

I can only relate my own experience and where Mary Kay was concerned, I believe it was too dependant on other people's success/drive/ambition and ability to get up in the morning and keep on with it.

grossreal:

now does this sound like amway

What you describe sounds like any management position in business, yes.

You are referring to Amway or similar as an "investment" of sorts. I agree with you there. My time is an investment. It is where you differentiate the investments that I beg to differ.

With your word "brek" is that "break" or "back"?

That is why I asked the question......(I forgot you are so literal). Let me not "assume" then and rephrase the question.

In order for a business such as Amway to be successful, does it rely upon a tiered system in which other people running the exact same business must also be successful?

Just a question. It should only need a simple answer.

it is not to judge, GR, just to understand - as you would approve.

Regards JO

 

[josko]

Hiya Joan

Thats not uncommon feedback from people that have become involved with many motivational systems with many MLMs.

Other positive feedback is that what people learn along the way ( whether they are active or not) has often increase their earning potential in their PAYG jobs or their businesses.

The biggest challenge I believe in many cases is that people draw conclusions that a product or a company is BAD. Usually that isnt the case, the EXPOSURE to a person or a group of people not directly related to the "company" has usually caused that. I have said it before, if you get involved make sure the "upline" and the training systems are in alliance with your value set.

ta
rolf

Yes, that was another hurdle I had to overcome.

Overall, I loved my product and as I mentioned, there are quite a few of us that still use it literally years later.

Regards Jo

 

[grossreal]

hi
must admit I was not a big reader before still ain't
I have been told these are the types of books to read and I'm doing that.
so have not read those books but there are alot I have not read.
I am not a person that makes excuses for any business nor am I talking about recruiting for amway for me its but one income stream
so its not a major with regards to making it a living.
I have other things to do that
for me it is the best training and thats what I tell people within my group
how much time and effort is dependant on the person and for that matter money out lay on anything
I posted because it was asked who is n it and why so secretive
for me what secret I don't hide taht I am in amway
I like the products and I think at my age I have the right to like stuff
I don't try to order milk or eggs because I know what they supply
I like the training because I thinks its the best I have seen
now was that because I was in amway
no I joined amway because of the training as I saw benefit for my group
and they have seen the benefit
as for cost
I have aguy worth 55mil just join amway
will he be ringing every bank manager, builder, contractor, on his boomks I don't think so he might but I think not
will he get training yes he will
he might buy health products creams or even detergent is it his choice
yes it is
will I tell him to read some book about the possible losses by joining amway
no
because I see no loss
I can stop tomorrow from buying a single thing
and unless someone says that there is mind altering ingredience in my glister tooth paste I will still consume the same way
I am sorry to say I just don't have the time or for that matter a good enough reason to read books that are not going to benefit me.
and if you read my post I plan do and then check and if I am to read a book about checking on some thing like amway where for me its just buying products I would rarther go to conference which I am going to
to chill out of the corporate rat race.
oh and yes I like to sit there and hear of people that have done well in amway
the last thing I want to read is about people who have not
because if you want that I can organise a book callled the fall and fall of corporate people
I can give you stories of people lost heaps in coles woolworths etc of people drive out of business buy both coles and woolworths I can get heaps of letter from liquidators of people that have lost time and money.
I could get barbara holborow to give pages of people and families distroyed but the current economical enviroment
but do I want to read or even hear that
simple
no
I find that the people in this market and in any market you ick the market even the burial market are the positive ones
and the conference on this weekend will have me and I think in excess of 100,000 others coming out of that meeting positive
and is that a bad thing
I don't know
but I think any time you are positive your whole body language changes and people know
my question to you when you wake you each day are you positive
do you look at the day as an adventure or as a task some thing to be done and back to bed.
do you walk out with I am ready
or oh my god not another day.
or even when will this week end or no not another week like that.
amway is not going to take that away.
but it will give you that slight edge
that pick up
that bit of drive
that I want to achieve this
that I can do this
and that you can't stop me
give me an investor with this drive and you have a person going places with or without amway
and if amway got him/her there they will stay in amway and they won't be that drop out person
why
they have drive
without drive your spinning wheels
your in the back to bed mode
which for me is fine if thats what you want.
I want the drivers
because they join groups and they drive those groups
you will never achieve anything if you wait for it to come to you(old saying) and the same goes for your can't be a great chef if you are not going to taste different foods.
amway is not the dish
its not the ingredience
its just the cook book
for alot of people they don't get to the dish
because they throw out the book with out even turning the first page
and then say but the chef round the corner said it was rubbish.
well for me I take the book see if there is anything i can cook and if not then throw it away or at least put it on the shelf incase someone else reads it and say you idiot you did not understand it
this is what it says and then read read it and this time I still get to the dish
but the person that discount before ( reading alot here they have not understand it for a few) then have even turned the page well that fine by me
I will do what I do
again didn't word it so add or take out letters

 

[wylie]

So gross, are you saying you use only the bits of amway that you want, like the excellent training but don't sell the products? If so is that because the training comes free when you join and to get similar training outside of amway would cost a lot through other training businesses. If so, I wonder if amway care that some people are using their training without selling product?

 

[fokas]

Because in both of them, you need to also buy products in order to get the small rewards cheque, you are generally spending more money than you actually make.
So, you pay to sign up, pay to buy products, pay to put on meetings, and someone ahead of you in the chain gets the benefit of your work!!

Same as your boss getting the benefit of you working in his office.
You have to buy those products anyway...so why not buy it through Amway?

 

[josko]

Same as your boss getting the benefit of you working in his office.
You have to buy those products anyway...so why not buy it through Amway?

fokas...I'm not sure you get it. They do buy it through Amway...

Regards Jo

 

[josko]

So gross, are you saying you use only the bits of amway that you want, like the excellent training but don't sell the products? If so is that because the training comes free when you join and to get similar training outside of amway would cost a lot through other training businesses. If so, I wonder if amway care that some people are using their training without selling product?

With MK, the training came with the business which involves everything that GR talks about- client liaison, people management, leadership etc...comes for free. He is correct in saying that the training is worthwhile for someone that has not had management experience. I did have experience which is maybe why I was so successful to start with. What I didn't have training in was cold calling and sales.

If all GR uses Amway for is training then I'll eat my hat. (Which is only new from The Blue Mountains recently ) But in saying that- good for him!

MK would not care if anyone used their training becasue in order to go through this process, one must buy the products and start selling them. That is the key! In order to train, you will not learn those things gr and I talked about UNLESS you are active in meeting, greeting and selling. It is a win-win situation for Amway and MK! Therefore it is a very smart, well thought out business.

An after thought:

I have found as I think Rolf says, that only certain type of people are cut out to be successful in these types of businesses. What they really need is a Leader under a Leader under a Leader. Throw in a Follower and the pyramid falls down.


Regards JO

 

[grossreal]

hi all
couple of things
do amway know
well I think so but the bigger question is do they care.
the answer to that is no
do I buy the product have a read of my posts yes
do my merry men buy the product
again yes

do I pick out the best.
have a read of my other posts as thats what I do in any deal I look for the best and gain access to that.
but do I use parts of amway no
just like you can't buy a car and just use the front wheel or the boot you use the vehicle not just parts of it
yes you might not use the heater the air con or the the heated seats but its part of the car
are these parts good or bad
I don't care I don't use that part do I ask the dealer to remove them

or not buy the car because of them
no
they come as part of the package.
oh and wylie
like the excellent training but don't sell the products?
I don't sell anything
I have sold products for lots of businesses but I don't sell amway products
I have given them away to friends and business associates.
I have given alot away to some of my teams in buying groups but I have paid for those so can't be seen as selling unless I have the idea of selling group
I have had people wanting to buy the products
but not thru me.
and josko
I don't use amway
I see it as a mutual way of doing business and thats not using
I do business where amway sell product to me and my group and we get training and then each eprson can build there leg as they require wityh my assistance and that to me is not using
using and usary are were you take advantage of the other party
and in our case thats not the case
we have a requirement that amway meets and they have a requirement that we meet and we out meet there requirements
so I see it as a win win for all
oh and before I forget the training is not free when you join its on going and evolving
and the training is one the most important parts of the whole process yes you pay
are you happy to pay
well I am
are they worth it
I think so and as I am paying for it then it value for money to me
not only to me but everyone in my groups are on the training also
has any dropped out and you can at any time not one
so they must think its worth it to them as well
I have been a trainer for a multi national was international and I had to do the training not now and the package for me is well worth it
if a trainer enrols in a training package theat he/she can cancel anytime( an d can get the previous 90 days worth of disk value returned then maybe its not that great or maybe it is.
your call on that one.
I did forget the last thing with the training that you can't put a price on.
some one above you that will train you
some above them that will train you if they can't
and someone above that person that wants you to succeed.
now you might not buy anything sell anything or do anything.
but these people want to assist
they may not be able to assist but they will try
whats that worth
to some one that does not know anything about business
priceless
again check and move as you wish
I have to go again

 

[james_w]

we were in amway

1. products werent cheaper then the super market

2. at the time we were in amyway they had no website and didn't allow recruiting through the internet

This annoyed me as I had alot of online friends that would of been open to the idea IMHO amways marketing strategies are outdated why push friends family etc when there is millions on the net that already have a business mind set and have some type of online business/affilate program /MLM

any business even amway has it's good and bad points with the right target market no point selling the amway business plan to someone that will run for the hills as soon as the word amway/quixtar/mlm is mentioned.

personally I rather affilate programs that cost nothing to start and easy enough to advertise

 

[pennyk]

Same as your boss getting the benefit of you working in his office.
You have to buy those products anyway...so why not buy it through Amway?

At least working for the boss, I'm also getting paid, and getting paid probably 1000x more per hour than I was with a MLM!!
I guess with the Amway products, I thought they were way over priced for what they were, with a few exceptions. Its like Tupperware, people say it lasts 5 or 10 times as long as the stuff you buy in the supermarket, but it costs 20x as much.... so not good value for money.
but I have used their wood polish... and only just ran out of the bottle, which I think we have had for over 10 years!.... so that's good value!!

Pen

 

[joanmc]

at the risk of highjacking amway for tupperware...
pennyk, are you aware though that if your tupperware breaks in 20 years time they will replace it...free? I have had containers replaced that were over 30 years old replaced, no questions asked. try that with a plastic container from kmart!...anyway back to amway LOL