New Investment Techique

I was analyzing my sittuation and looking at a few options and I came up with a pretty good idea.

To start off I am 18 years old I am a new property investor , At the moment I can save around $15 k - $20 k a year but dont have much saved up at the moment I need to save money for a deposit. One of the ways I could get around this is through my dads DIY super fund. One of the options that comes with a DIY funds is the ability to become part owners in property through his super.

If say i wanted to invest 50 / 50 in a property for $350,000 with my dad I could use a lump sum of $45,000 from his DIY fund and get loan for the remainging $305,000. Because I can save aprox $15, 000 a year an attractive option is for me to make additional payments to the loan and in 3 years both parties will own 50 % of the equity. Below is a table showing how much interest I would save cuting a loan down from 15 years to 8 years and 6 months .

Initial Calculator Results
You originally borrowed: $305,000
Loan term: 15 years
At an interest rate of: 7%
Monthly repayment figure: $2,741
With a final payment of: $2,741
Total interest paid: $188,457


Updated Calculator Results
You originally borrowed: $305,000
New loan term: 8 years 6 months
At an interest rate of: 7%
Monthly repayment figure: $3,991
With a final payment of: $836
Total interest paid: $98,970
Total interest saved: $89,486
Time saved: 6 years 6 months


As evident above my interest has been cut down $89,486.
By making larger loan repayments we are also making a large loss (negatively gearing ) which is supplement by my $15,000 of savings. Due to this the large ammount of money lost is claimed as a tax deduction. The property would also be positively geared in 8 years and 6 months because the loan is totally paid off.

I know some people will be thinking your tieing up too much money into the property , you have to remeber we are using my dads super money and he is a first time property investor like me. He doesnt want it to be to highly geared. Also after a few years we can use the equity to fund more properties. Either way if I dont buy a an IP the money that I save will be tied up in the bank doing nothing , or if i pruchased a 50 / 50 joint venture with my dad atleast the money will be in the equity of the IP.

With the intial ammount funded by my dad , half of it $22,500 could be finance by himself and the $22,500 by his super fund. Of which the $22,500 funded by my dad could be used as the amount for the deposit effectively not using the DIY for gearing.
 
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By the way Im not too sure on the super rules for DIY investing I once had though you couldnt use DIY funds to secure a loan for an IP and I still have to clarify what is meant when it is said part ownership in a property.
 
Hi Young Gun

It's good that you're using some lateral thinking but you're right about a super fund not being able to borrow money.

Secondly, don't be in too great a rush. IMO you're better off doing it on your own with your own funds when you get that far.

Cheers
 
A few random thoughts.

1. Family and money dont mix.
2. You dont get rich by paying off loans.
3. Increasing loan payments does NOT increase tax deductions (only interest on the loan is deductible).
 
Sultan of Swing said:
Hi Young Gun

It's good that you're using some lateral thinking but you're right about a super fund not being able to borrow money.

Secondly, don't be in too great a rush. IMO you're better off doing it on your own with your own funds when you get that far.

Cheers

With the intial ammount funded by my dad , half of it $22,500 could be finance by himself and the $22,500 by his super fund. Of which the $22,500 funded by my dad could be used as the amount for the deposit effectively not using the DIY for gearing.
 
I think previous posters are correct re S Funds being unable to borrow-- Also, naturally, caution has to be applied when entering into any financial arrangements-whether family or at arm's lenght- however you can mutually benefit from being involved with family. Spouse and I have acted as the bank for kids-- It enables them to get ahead faster, saves all those setting up, fees etc--Interest rates can be adjusted. From our perspective we have the satisfaction of seeing our children getting ahead and if disaster- illness, divorce befalls them we know we could adjust the Terms of the loan. At the same time if you enter into such an arrangement you should of course document your dealings with a formal Deed. Best wishes - you might still be able to enter something with Dad.
 
I know any arrangment with family is something which could work out bad , but my dad is unlikely to rip me off , I am only young and he wants the best for me and he has never put himself ahead of me in terms of anything financial. Often if i have owned him money he has discounted some of the payments and always helped me out .
 
hi YG,

use the search function for info re Super-funds,there should be enough to spend the rest of your day reading. :)
 
young_gun said:
. Due to this the large ammount of money lost is claimed as a tax deduction.
.


Hi Young_gun,

In addition's to Duncan's comment above re ONLY the interest portion can be tax deductible, WHO will it be deductible against?

Another way may be to simply have your dad's super LEND money to you as an investment (i.e. you draw up a loan between yourself and dad's super).

You use this as deposit, to borrow money for a property entirely in your name.

We do similar where we have taken out significant unsecured loans from my inlaws - they get a fixed income every month from us, we get use of the capital.

Cheers,

The Y-man


Cheers,

The Y-man
 
Young Gun

It would be very difficult for your Dad to be allowed to use his super fund money in the way you suggest- and he does need to be extremely careful.

An SMSF CANNOT be used to borrow or lend money.

I've heard that it can be possible for an SMSF to go into a joint venture with somebody else- that was in the context though of a contract where one person bought a house, and the SMSF provided reno funds; the house was sold at a profit, and the profits split 50 50 with the SMSF. The JV agreement set the details in concrete.

I don't see that this scenario could apply in your place.

See you solicitor before making any moves. Yes, your Dad can sign his bank account and withdraw the money. But that would be illegal, and penalties could be severe. SMSF funds have to be audited every year, and every cent spent according to the letter of the law.
 
I know one loophole in the super industry that I might be able to take advantage of . My dad is 55 and this is the retirment age for someone born before 1960.

If my dad quits his current job and says he is retired he has acess to his preserved money and could withdrawl everything if he wanted (although if u withdrawl over $600k I think your hit with heavy taxs) . Once he has his money out no one can do anything about it , he can put 50 % back into a super fund if he wants (or the whole ammount back for that matter) and begin working again or he can put the money into property ect ..

This is a current loop hole in the super system
 
That could be a possibility. I guess I'd just assumed that, at your age, your father would be in his 40s.

I have a friend who is 55- he saves tax by taking money out of his super and putting it back in again.
 
There is enough expertise on this forum to replace the Howard Govt. so someone here or a number of them will have the answers.
I mainly have some questions because this is not my forte at all.
Can a super scheme be a party to a trust ?
Can you you pay rent to the trust and be one of the beneficiaries as well ?

Part of wealth creation is to create an income stream. Have you considered using Dad's funds to create an income stream, then milk it for your real estate portfolio? Don't ask me how or what because I'm not up on your details nor am I an accountant. But sometimes you buy and plant the trees, and use the fruit to plant more trees and don't eat too well for a while until it's all well established. (whatever it is)
good luck
cheers
crest133
 
There is enough expertise on this forum to replace the Howard Govt. so someone here or a number of them will have the answers.
I mainly have some questions because this is not my forte at all.
Can a super scheme be a party to a trust ?
Can you you pay rent to the trust and be one of the beneficiaries as well ?

Part of wealth creation is to create an income stream. Have you considered using Dad's funds to create an income stream, then milk it for your real estate portfolio? Don't ask me how or what because I'm not up on your details nor am I an accountant. But sometimes you buy and plant the trees, and use the fruit to plant more trees and don't eat too well for a while until it's all well established. (whatever it is)
good luck
cheers
crest133

Yes that can be done , actually the Government encourages people to take their super out as a pension allowing you to have acess to 1.1 million before our taxed heavily . This is because they know that the more you take out the more likely you are to blow it and go back on the welfare pension afterwards. Although this is possible I dont think it would work , that is because my dad is working full time at the moment , so to gain acess to his preserved funds he would have to quit his job to get acess to his funds. If he got acess to his funds and got organised an income stream from a pension then I dont think it work if he got a job again and set up another super fund for his new job (which is needed for super guarantee 9%) it be entirely legal.

With your question about the the super scheme being a party to the trust , what exactly do you mean by a super scheme ? Are you talking about a super funds ? Is your question if you set up your own DIY super fund , can you put a super fund from MLC , ING , colonial ect into the trust ?

I dont think you would pay rent to the trust because I dont think this would give you the tax advantages that you can gain from making contributions to your super. For example all contributions and Salary sacrafice are taxed at 15 % , their for it would make better sense to use your income to add to your super fund and get a tax break by only paying 15 % tax , instead of using money from rent to put into the fund.
 
Young_Gun

While I don't want to discourage your enthusiasm, I'm also having a feeling you might be trying too hard too quickly- without some of the financial skills you're really going to need later on.

You've mentioned that you have the ability to save $15K-$20K pa- but that you haven't saved up much.

Property is something of a patience game; and in many areas, there's very little growth- or even a decline.

I'd be suggesting that you save like crazy for the next year or two- and use the time to learn about the property in your target area. Learn about what the values are- and you'll be in a better position to see when prices start to improve.

If you can get access to your Dad's super money- OK- but motivate yourself by asking him to only match the money you're saving.

Although there are now loans where you don't have to show where money came from, you will probably have a lot more options open to you when you have been able to show real savings over a period of time to your lender.
 
Yeh Geoffw , your abosolutly right , this technique just came up when I was doing some of the calculations involved for a property that came up the other day. I only did the calculations because I enjoy working it out and its good practice. I dont intend on buying for a few years and I want to do as much of it that I can myself . Although if I went in with my dad I could get in earlier but the thing is it wouldnt be the same as if it were all my money and by doing something with my dad im shifting some of the risk with my dad. In reality even if I failed in my firs purchase of an IP the expirence I would get from it provided i learnt from my mistakes would be priceless. Although I have mentiond the startergy listed above , its unlikley I would venture beyond the paper . I thought id just see what some of the more epxirienced people like yourself thought about it .

I definatly need to learn and educate myself alot more about investing in property especially some of the more technical sides if IP , so althought it looks like im going out hard and fast , I am willing to pace myself because I relise that a succesful investment property is as much about the managment as it is the actualy property.
 
There are posts on what you can do with DIY super funds. One of the things a trustee cannot do with DIY super funds is to borrow for investments or enter into a partnership with borrowings. Your arrangement seems to be inappropriate for the use of DIY super funds. Keep thinking and trying, even if this is not a goer. :)
 
young_gun said:
I know any arrangment with family is something which could work out bad , but my dad is unlikely to rip me off , I am only young and he wants the best for me and he has never put himself ahead of me in terms of anything financial. Often if i have owned him money he has discounted some of the payments and always helped me out .

No offense, Young Gun, but my main issue with isn't your dad taking advantage of you, but what happens if something goes pear-shaped at your end. Say you lose your job, or you decide to travel, or you go back to study, or something happens to the property, whatever. With these situations the parent rarely goes out to rip the kid off: it's usually some unforseen thing that causes issues.

It's better to stand and fall on your own, so to speak, especially if you're just starting out. Start small, learn the basics, and then get bigger.

I have to point out that I would never mix money with family. Too many potential emotional issues and I prefer to invest without emotions.
Alex
 
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