No dig garden

LearningMan

LearningMan

Hi all, the wife and I will be soon starting an organic non dig garden.

Drivers for this project are as follows -

1) Cost of organic veggies :eek: vs cost of setting up your own patch
2) Not knowing what chemicals/ pesticides been used for veggies bought at most places today
3) We are willing to dedicate time
4) It's good for the kids
5) We have finally some space with new PPOR

At this stage all the net research I have done indicates to not use any treated pine sleepers for the retaining wall. The harsh chemicals can get into the veggies over the long term. So before I get past step 1 .. I am just curious ...

1) Has anyone else here have their own ORGANIC veggie patch ?

2) Do you have any photos you can share ?

3) What did you use as a retaining wall ?

4) How much success have you had ?

Hope to hear from you all ...
 
I've grown my vegies in a no-dig garden for over 20 years. Our soil here is very alkaline (Ph of 11 in places) and not much good for anything. I bought a book by Esther Deans a very long time ago and have followed her principles since.

Huge success with all sorts of vegies, herbs etc. My herbs and some asian vegies are in a mandala garden made of limestone rocks which is close to the house and two other very long narrow gardens for ease of planting, harvesting etc which are further away and enclosed by redgum planks. You can use companion planting for controlling beasties as well as things like garlic spray etc. Rabbits have been a problem but the foxes seem to have those under control these days.

I've just googled Esther and there are lots of websites including this one:

http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s867068.htm

Happy gardening!
 
I've been wanting to do one of these but the lack of a shadehouse is my problem, as well as unreliable water supply. Those 'harsh chemicals' you mention are arsenic. Can't get much harsher. Reclaimed hardwood railway sleepers for edging would be your best bet, those things really can take some abuse.

Lots of information about this on the net, and I'm procrastinating starting a site on the subject myself.
 
you can't buy CCA anything anymore, so there's no need to worry about the Copper, Cyanide or Arsenic leaching into the soil.

a mate of mine uses those new treated sleepers with great success, but if the bed is too far out of the ground the soil gets very cold - like he has found out. so he starts everything in little greenhouses now before planting.

at his old house we used recycled jarrah sleepers that were parged with bitumenous paint crap underneath and inside and laid on a compacted limestone rubble base with shadecloth in between the jarrah and the limestone. worked really well, had no termite or rot issues even with the threaded rods running through the middle.

setting up a 100% organic patch is too bloody hard. the soild will sit on the ground at a soil depot with tractors driving around, you bring the soild home in the car exposed to traffic....but if you're talking just doing without pesticides then you should learn about complimentary planting as well.

i like the limestone mandala idea though!
 
LearningMan said:
Thanks Y-Man. I remember asking you about this.

I didn't think your veggie patch is organic and raised ?
Click to expand...

We tried a no dig, but it was easier in the end to dig up the weed patch ("lawn"), mix in some manure and hey presto! It loosed up the soil and added manure raised the bed in any case.

The Seasol and Charlie Carp we use (also Dynamic Lifter) are approved for use in organic farming from memory... Remember that organic farming is much "looser" than Biodynamic farming (which is much more strict in what can be used and what can be grown).

Cheers,

The Y-man
 
IMO raised beds with borders are overrated - just create paths between beds and work and heap up the soil in between the paths with a natural grade to allow drainage. Works great in both clay and sandy soils. This lets you use a hoe easily for weeding without scraping the border etc and allows you to rotate beds/paths every few seasons so you aren't always growing your veggies in the same soil as it will get tired eventually no matter what you do - esp for tomatoes / other high demand vegies. If soil flows down on to the path just flick it up again when you do your weeding with the hoe. If you are working on a grade then let the beds and paths go straight down the hill - you only need retaining on very steep grades that way. A lot cheaper doing this as well... the easiest method of weeding is with a hoe - can be done quickly and regularly if there is nothing in the way.

Something that is under-rated is SPACE! If you have it, then spacing your veggies out more than it says on the pack will make them grow much better with less water (less competition between them) and less fertiliser etc. Easier to get at weeds too. Most books try to get you to do intensive cram sessions but it is amazing what happens when you give them some space... they grow bigger and produce longer with a better product...

BTW - canola meal (used as a protein supplement for stock feed - cheap!) is a really good fertiliser - mix with a bit of seaweed stuff for great results. And try to find out about the soil pH in your area (I don't know Sydney at all) - if it's clay it could easily be acidic so keep the gypsum / lime / dolomite up to it!

Just a bit of info from a few seasons of veggies and talking to more than a few old salts at this game...
 
LearningMan said:
Silly question - how does one test PH level on soil ?
Click to expand...

An example of a testing kit:

http://www.inoculo.com.au/Kits.html

Mind you, you would probably be better off chatting to a few gardeners or a good nursery in the area as there is usually a "soil type" in a region which would be prone to reverting to a certain pH. Adding lots of fertiliser (even organic) will usually lower the pH (more acidic) so this is the more "usual" problem for veggies.

BTW - as you probably know if you have a clay soil and you are trying to "no-dig" you will need A LOT of organic matter (as against fertiliser - not the same thing!) to keep the clay structure open for root penetration through getting the humus to grow. It's easy to underestimate the quantities required - as well as the fact it is constantly decomposing in a warmer climate... so you need to keep adding it!

Often it is better to buy a good quality loam soil (you may already have it?) to put on top of a clay soil rather than keep adding organic material all the time. Just be careful it is real loam (ie soil with a range of particle sizes from clay through to sand all together) rather than just sand with mulch added to it (which will decompose and just leave you with sand!).

Here is a good link about this - getting the right soil first up (loam) is the main ingredient for success!

http://www.gardenseeker.com/garden_soils.htm
 
I thought about chooks, but I can't eat eggs from chickens I know personally. Go figure.

I thought about bees and honey, but there are a heck of a lot of rules about where the hive must be located, it's just easier to buy it in a jar ...

Instead I've got a yard of fruit trees - don't need to do much once they're established, just pop out and eat the fruit - peaches, pawpaw and mulberries are available at present. Orange, lemon, lychee, avocado & pomegranate are in flower. Grape and fig are just sprouting. I don't know if you want to consider that, LearningMan? Mulberries have the extra option of silkworms ...

This is all in a suburban backyard in Brisbane - the trees are small at present, and I intend to keep them that way - easier to pick and shoo off flying fox.

Other than that, my real successes have been herbs - parsley, basil, rosemary and a small bay leaf tree (but growing). But I must admit, I've not planted any veg for a while - at least, not since it's started raining again in Brissie. I do have a couple of punnets of rosella's going in this weekend - perfect timing as I'm almost out of rosella jam ...

When I was growing veg, I found cucumbers to be a wonderful success, green beans (I have a couple of trellis'), broadbeans and corn. Leeks were a disaster, as was lettuce. Rockmelons tasted better than I've ever bought in a shop, and the watermelons were good too ...

In no case did I need a raised bed (maybe that's the problem for the lettuce and leeks?). But my property has a slight slope, and I do tend to work a little bit of height and mulch into the ground before planting.

As for seeds - I get mine from my pa, and he gets heirloom/self-seeding brands, so I can store the seeds and reuse next time around. Or let them fall to the ground and get a surprise when they self seed (the green beans).

Don't know if any of this helps. But now I'm hungry and thinking of getting the torch out and heading out to the mulberry tree. Hmmm.
 
I did red gum sleepers, raised bed. I put down card board (newspaper is too messy and blows around a lot, and worms really dig cardboard) and straw (not hay) and covered the lot in a couple of bags of manure. I dont do any weeding cept for the odd wheat that comes up from the straw or poo, and I plant thickly with mostly bought seedlings. I dont turn the earth at all, just add more straw from the chook yard, and the odd lump of seaweed and whatever else I can get hold of. I plant thickly, which means the larger plants shade the smaller ones in the summer, and stop them bolting to seed, and reduces the chances of weeds taking hold. I like to read Jackie French books and organic gardner magazines along with australian property investor.
Feed the siol, and the plants will look after themselves. Start small, and keep on top of it being as lazy as possible, really Id like just to have to harvest, with the plants self seed, and enough diversity not to need any further inputs....
 
LearningMan said:
3) What did you use as a retaining wall ?
...
Click to expand...


LM,

We also use polystyrene boxes (free from you local ALDI or greengrocer) with the bottom cut out.

Cheers,

The Y-man
 

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We grow veges and fruit organically - have done for over 20 yrs. I got into this while I was studying Horticulture and working as a gardener in my own business in Newcastle. Spent 18 mths living and working with Alf Finch who runs Eden Seeds, a non - hybrid seed company. We never dig unless the existing soil is seriously compacted. Had a 5 acre hobby farm with small market garden back in the early '90s until we ran out of water in the drought. Used to make heaps of compost using the Indore method.
 
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