Nras

Hi K

Noooo

My intention wasnt to put you off NRAS stock at all...........more to make sure the answer that you got from your lender was "security" qualified rather than a, its the 28th if the month......"I need to make budget" response.

Now im sure that was not your contacts intention,.

I have asked a specific question from my ANZ folks, lets see what comes back

ta
rolf

You actually made me 'laugh out loud' Rolf. You certainly have not put me off NRAS properties, the idea has just been put on the back burner for the short term as I have my eye on a place that needs a bit of TLC which is more my forte.

Who knows the motives behind my PB - our 'relationship' is only rather new so I'm unsure whose best interests she is acting in at the moment.

I'd be interested in hearing your reply as well Rolf if you care to share.

Once again, thank you.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesse View Post
FWIW I contacted my banker at ANZ regarding borrowing for an NRAS property and she advised (after contacting the lending team) that "ANZ does not have a position on NRAS". After asking her to clarify further, as I was reading it both ways, she said that the property doesn't matter if it's NRAS or not and can borrow 95% as well.

I'm still very skeptical though, if I were to get an NRAS property with ANZ at 95% LVR whether it would go through without a hitch or not is another matter entirely.


Kesse/Rolf - I dont believe ANZ will do a 95% investment loan for NRAS either. You are right to be cynical.

More generally, I had kind of hoped I'd addressed the NRAS finance side of things pretty comprehensively previously, but maybe not...it seems people want to continue to try to push the envelope with an ANZ or a Mortgage House at high LVR's etc :)

So, for most mere mortals the reality is this; any NRAS purchase is an investment purchase, requiring an investment loan. Getting an investment loan approved at 95% is quite a feat, whether its for an NRAS approved property or not. When you add NRAS to the equation, things get more difficult, because options become more limited (pretty much non existent to be fair)

To explain - there are TWO generic mortgage insurers in Australia who almost every bank uses for LMI - QBE and Genworth.;
QBE does NOT yet insure NRAS deals (in spite of what some here may tell you)
Genworth DOES insure NRAS deals- for select NRAS models to 90% plus LMI.

The only other Mortgage Insurers in Australia who insure NRAS are "in-house" insurers owned by Westpac and St George, and their policy is clear;
85% plus LMI. with all NRAS deals above 70% to be Mortgage Insured.

So, there is no official policy anywhere, with any lender or any mortgage insurer in the land, which supports 95% NRAS lending. Onyx says they have a 95% product for NRAS , but its limited to them and specific to only some NRAS models. We've no details on the policy or the product provider so its not broadly available. But they are marketing it, so let's wait and see how it goes before making any assessment on whether or not its a viable option for most investors. For the moment it cant be included as an option for the investor public, because its not available unless you buy your NRAS property from Onyx. Im sure Onyx would also concede that a 95% policy is quite different to a 95% loan approval.

What this all ultimately means is that 95% NRAS lending is basically not available to the mere mortals amongst us. Even 90% lending is pretty close to impossible. Genworth may offer an LMI policy to 90%, but Westpac, St George rams and Firstmac dont offer a product to that LVR, so the policy isnt really used - unless a deal is done by exception.
The only way to get a high LVR NRAS loan done by exception is if you are one hell of a strong candidate, with a very significant borrowing capacity, or get lucky and have a bank and insurer approve it by fluke.

When all is said and done - trawling around for high LVR loans for NRAS is like looking for a needle in a haystack- and why on earth would anyone want to take the risk of using a lender that doesnt have an NRAS policy, anyway? Is it just to get access to 90 or 95% LVR? If an investor cant afford a 15-20% deposit, NRAS is not for them. Someone with limited equity is better off buying a non NRAS investment instead, where a 10% deposit will suffice.

So at the risk of being a broken record :) These are the lenders who have clear policies on NRAS, understand how it works, and understand the different NRAS models. It should be pretty simple- use these lenders if you need finance for NRAS.

Westpac - they have announced significant changes on March 14th. They now fund a wider range of NRAS models (exactly in line with St George)
QAHC
Brisbane Housing
Yaran
AMC
Questus
Aspire

Max LVR 85% plus LMI. All deals above 70% require LMI. This will add costs to your loan (assuming you capitalise it) otherwise it will just add additional costs to you if you pay it up front.
They assess whatever the NRAS rent is x 75%. This is below average but OK
They assess all existing debt at the actual existing repayments- no loading. This is excellent
NRAS incentive cannot be used for servicing. This is weak
Borrowing capacity is "good " but will get much weaker with each additional NRAS purchase or other investment property purchases in the future, because of how they treat rental income and fail to treat the incentive.


St George - exactly the same models and LVR as Westpac except-.
They assess the NRAS rental x 80%. - slightly better than Westpac. This is good
They assess all existing debt at 9.60%, P&I over 25 years - this is very very weak and hurts your borrowing capacity quite a bit if you have other debts- whether they are P & I or I/O. All of it is assessed as P & I @ 9.6%!!
NRAS incentive cannot be used for servicing - this is weak
Borrowing capacity is extremely challenging/weak -especially for multiple NRAS purchases now or in the future

Rams - see Westpac policy.

Firstmac - funds a slightly different range of NRAS models. They do the following models to 80% LVR;
QAHC
Questus
UAHA
Ethan Affordable Housing
Quantum
Aspire
AMC

Max LVR 80%
No LMI - except on construction loans -and they pay the LMI on those deals anyway. Good
They assess NRAS rental x 80% - slightly better than Westpac. Same as St George. Good
They assess all existing debt at actual rate - same as Westpac. tronger than St G Excellent
They accept 100% of the NRAS incentive for servicing- except on construction . they are the only lender who does this - provides a huge boost to borrowing capacity for all non construction deals. Excellent for anyone considering multiple NRAS purchases now or in the future. Your borrowing capacity grows with your portfolio.
Higher rate - 7.45% vs 7.11% from the others (assuming the loan is above 250K and you are paying a professional package fee).

There are a handful of other lenders who also do NRAS deal on some NRAS models- such as NAB, Bendigo Adelaide, MECU and Wide Bay. However, their policies are limited to one or two models, and LVR and servicing can be restrictive. The lenders outlined above are the main players in NRAS lending.

As Ive said in previous posts - if LVR is important to you because you dont have a 20% deposit - try Westpac or St George. They will do 85% plus cap LMI. But understand that their borrowing capacity is restrictive, (St George in particular is very restrictive) so repeat NRAS purchases, or other future investment purchases, will be restricted by their servicing model. Your future borrowing capacity will be compromised.

If a 20% deposit is not an issue, and you have plans to buy additional NRAS or other investment properties in the next few years, Firstmac's borrowing capacity will be a much better match. No LMI, and your future borrowing capacity can grow with your portfolio.

It all comes down to what you want to achieve.
 
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No response? Hmmm... I guess the answer is probably no

Anonymity is both a rose and a thorn. To be fair id probably choke if i was quoting lenders. Especially when i put the link to my website in the sig/footer of my replies ..ha! Great for promoting ones self. Not so great when you potentially have billion dollar companies breathing down ya neck! Ha! Possible biting of the hand that intimitantly feeds?
 
No response? Hmmm... I guess the answer is probably no

verbatim from the ANZ folk for WIW

Unfortunatly ANZ do not lend to this scheme


This does not mean though that one cant slide something through retail without disclosure, just means that its a no go in the broker area.

ta
rolf
 
Thats great news for people wanting to get in with 10% deposit.
I still dont think NRAS is well suited to investors who can only stump up 10% though, but thats just an opinion- and we all know opinions are like @holes- everyones got one :)
But for thiose who need 90% and want to get in - get in quick. Westpac will only take 25% of the NRAS concentration in the development...hurry hurry hurry.
 
So thats Questus, Aspire, Affordable Management Corporation and Yarran, just to be clear... 90% with Westpac. Not surehow big the LMI premium will be, because its payable for anything above 70% LVR.

For Brisbane Housing and Queensland Affordable Housing- which are both head lease models, not Non Entity Joint Venture models - you can go to 85% LVR with St G and Westpac. Again - LMI payable above 70% LVR for both these lenders
 
CG - When the scheme ends...

Just wondering if anyone would like to speculate on house values in the NRAS precincts when the scheme expires (relative to non-NRAS houses).

If I jump into my time-machine (a handy investment tool) and picture myself about to buy an NRAS property with 6mths left on the clock, I know that I'd be facing an awkward conversation with my tenant:

Dear Tenant
Are you sitting down? This is a quick letter to let you know that NRAS has left the building and I'd like to increase your rent by a paltry 20% so my budget doesn't blow out. Better you than me...
Much love, your landlord


From a policy perspective, I would've preferred to see the tenant ease back into it by paying:
80% - Years 1-7
85% - Year 8
90% - Year 9
95% - Year 10... or something like that and adjust the annual tax-free incentive to match this arrangement. That way, the tenant's budgets can better adjust to market rates before the 10 year expiry, giving the investor a better chance in achieving a return closer to market rates and some stability when the scheme draws to a close.

As most of the NRAS property appear to be clustered together, this will be a common question at the 10 year expiry. As the 20% discount must stay in effect until the last day of being registered within the scheme. I'm wondering if the scheme's removal has the potential to stimulate the market as sharply as it's introduction.

If you were in the market to buy an NRAS with 6mths left on the clock, would you be concerned about that area's volatility in the market? Would you want a fat discount to compensate for the risk?...
 
Just wondering if anyone would like to speculate on house values in the NRAS precincts when the scheme expires (relative to non-NRAS houses).

If I jump into my time-machine (a handy investment tool) and picture myself about to buy an NRAS property with 6mths left on the clock, I know that I'd be facing an awkward conversation with my tenant:

Dear Tenant
Are you sitting down? This is a quick letter to let you know that NRAS has left the building and I'd like to increase your rent by a paltry 20% so my budget doesn't blow out. Better you than me...
Much love, your landlord


From a policy perspective, I would've preferred to see the tenant ease back into it by paying:
80% - Years 1-7
85% - Year 8
90% - Year 9
95% - Year 10... or something like that and adjust the annual tax-free incentive to match this arrangement. That way, the tenant's budgets can better adjust to market rates before the 10 year expiry, giving the investor a better chance in achieving a return closer to market rates and some stability when the scheme draws to a close.

As most of the NRAS property appear to be clustered together, this will be a common question at the 10 year expiry. As the 20% discount must stay in effect until the last day of being registered within the scheme. I'm wondering if the scheme's removal has the potential to stimulate the market as sharply as it's introduction.

If you were in the market to buy an NRAS with 6mths left on the clock, would you be concerned about that area's volatility in the market? Would you want a fat discount to compensate for the risk?...



Respectfully Martyn - this is not a very well considered post. I'm not sure you have a comprehensive appreciation of how the scheme is designed to work. It seems you have not read the extensive posts already available on NRAS, on this forum? They will help you to better understand the scheme and address the sorts of misconceptions your post raises.

To your first point - The scheme is actually limited to a concentration of no more than 30% in any one estate, except or very small unit developments. There arent really any NRAS "precincts", or "clusters", except for a very small number of NRAS saturated unit developments. In fact, there isn't a housing estate anywhere with more than 15 or 20% NRAS concentration. There are NRAS approved properties in hundreds of different locations.

To your second point - Why would anyone be considering the purchase of an NRAS property if it had already been in the scheme for 9 and a half years, and then leaving it in the scheme for the remaining 6 months??? It makes no sense, as the 6 months of NRAS incentive an investor would receive wouldn't come close to compensating for the 20 or 25% reduced rental you'd receive for the first 6 months of ownership. It makes far more sense for the new purchaser to withdraw the property from the scheme for the remaining 6 months, to forego the incentive and set normal market rent. In any case...why are you raising this? NRAS purchase made today and into the immediate future have a 10 year life span to run so your point isnt relevant to NRAS at this point. ie - you cant buy NRAS approved properties that have been in the scheme for 9.5 years,(or even 5 years) at this point in time.

To your third point - tenants who are eligible to receive discounted rent under the scheme are fully aware of its 10 year lifespan. Is the Government and the landlord supposed to continue to subsidise the rental accommodation forever, and pay huge tax breaks to investors forever? I think 10 years is a very generous amount of time, already.
 
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Some very good information in these NRAS threads, thanks guys!

Quite interested in jumping on one of these, so much so I attended a briefing night held by Rivergum Homes/Questus. Some of what I'm about to type here will duplicate wat has been said but thought I would contribute.

The Rivergum presentation was centered around their release of NRAS properties in QLD (Coomera, Pimpana and Caboolture).

To keep it simple here is the main points;

-There is no head lease (guess this might making financing easier??)

-It is not housing commision, the property will be rented out to people who actually work such as firemen, police force, teachers, nurses etc

-Questus charge a 5% fee PA of the government incentive (guess they have to mke money some how)

-The property can be taken off the NRAS scheme at any time. For example, 3 yrs into the ownership if you decide to sell or move into it the remaining 7 years will go back into the 'pool' for another NRAS dwelling so to speak.

-From what I can gather with this scheme, depending on what you would like to acheive with this investment to yield the greatest cashflow would be to puchase the cheapest approved property. As regardless of value the incentive remains the same.

-As for prices Rivergum have listed the prices starting from $369k (Caboolture) to $450k (Pimpana, opposite to Mirvac Gainsborough Greens development)
My pick would be Coomera at $399k especialy with the new shopping center going in...

Hope this helps. :)
 
I've got some catching up to do as far as how the NRAS properties are doing.

1: Have any investors discovered holes in the deal after entering into the agreement?
2: As a preliminary I had a chat with my bank manager and the lady of power simply said that from the banks perspective financing such properties aren't a problem.(For me anyway).
Have others had hassles with lending policies lately?
 
Hi Newby.

A lot of the posters on here have had similar discussions with their lenders about NRAS loans. They are often led to believe the loan will be no problem, only to learn that when it gets down to an application hitting the lenders credit department, the backpeddaling begins.

The lenders who Ive posted about on here are your best bet. They're the only ones who have clear policies on NRAS.
 
what does NRAS stands for ?

I cannot find it in Google ?
National Rural Advisory Council
North Rockhampton Athletics Centre
Nonmonotonic Reasoning, Action, and Change
Non Repudiation Agent Contract system
 
what does NRAS stands for ?

I cannot find it in Google ?
National Rural Advisory Council
North Rockhampton Athletics Centre
Nonmonotonic Reasoning, Action, and Change
Non Repudiation Agent Contract system

i have one hand and couldn't be bothered with capitals.
national rental affordability scheme
 
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