Off the plan in Melbourne... withdraw issue

Hoon,

I agree, as per CosmicTrevor comment above, it's not the end of the world and the price is not too bad.

If you can't withdraw, just keep it and hold it out for a while.

Thanks mate. We are all looking into two years time...

Hoon did you even read the contract? I must admit that I purchased about 10 houses before I ever read one. But if you don't read the contract how do you know what you are agreeing to?

We did. We should've carefully double checked everything though. We wanted the independent lawyer to go through with it as well and maybe pick out few things which are most important and explain that to us but he didn't. Anyway, this is our fault really...

BTW, thank you so much guys. Really thank you for your help.
 
I'm just very disappointed at the way agent & independent lawyer is acting to be honest. The more I deal with them, the more I feel I'm dealing with someone I cannot trust.

Do you know anything about contracts, commerce or lawyers? There is no such thing as an "independent lawyer" - I don't know why you keep referring to the lawyer as such.

There is only "your lawyer", or "someone else's lawyer". Which one is it?

Because from your description, he doesn't sound like your lawyer at all. And if that's the case, you shouldn't be talking to him at all, let alone relying on his opinion to make decisions on half a million dollar's worth of contract.
 
Do you know anything about contracts, commerce or lawyers? There is no such thing as an "independent lawyer" - I don't know why you keep referring to the lawyer as such.

There is only "your lawyer", or "someone else's lawyer". Which one is it?

Because from your description, he doesn't sound like your lawyer at all. And if that's the case, you shouldn't be talking to him at all, let alone relying on his opinion to make decisions on half a million dollar's worth of contract.

It's an independent lawyer (meaning they have no relations with the company) that the agent offered to us so he can help us go through the contract. It's not our lawyer, not someone who we assigned.
 
It's an independent lawyer (meaning they have no relations with the company) that the agent offered to us so he can help us go through the contract. It's not our lawyer, not someone who we assigned.

Except he obviously has some sort of relationship with the company or the agent since you were introduced to him through them.

So you're saying he's not your lawyer - then why are you even talking to him???
 
This was his reply -

?You need to sort this out with Vendor. I was happy to answer several general questions, but as you had not received our terms of engagement, it is large contract, I spent 10 minutes with you and it wasn?t legal advice?

My question is, if he was acting on behalf of our interest, shouldn?t he have made it clear about few things (at least the important clauses) within the contract? Instead, he left half way when we were looking at our contract, came back later and didn?t offer anything. Additionally, if he was going to help today, why did he say he was going to talk to the agent about it and told me to get back to him in the arvo??

Trying to find loopholes in the contract is a difficult and time consuming thing -not something a lawyer can do for free. He was probably trying to be nice and seeing if he could fit it in between doing other things, but obviously had some family issues pop up.

So here's another one for experience - offer to pay an hourly rate and get the lawyer "on board" as "your lawyer". It may cost you a grand or two though.

The Y-man
 
3) The sales agent - I called him this morning and we spoke about rescinding our contract. He asks me why and obviously I explained few situations - including the fact that the independent lawyer you have assigned in this case hasn?t explained to us anything except if we were to hire him, it will cost $1300 and the payment has to be made on 27th March (which was why we assumed it this period was cooling off period). Long story short, he told me to send him an email and he will forward it to a department which deals with this issue. I can smell BS to be honest but I agreed and sent him an email that afternoon. He also promised my sister that he will contact her at 8pm tonight about the issue? which he didn?t. We called him several times, texted few times , all no reply. Right now, he is acting like he doesn?t care at all?

He does care - about his commission - he will be doing his best to make sure you don't get out of the contract. He's probably not lying - he likely did send an email to the dept that deals with such issues saying "Help, get these people off my back!". The longer he can draw out this process, the better (for him and the developer).


The Y-man
 
It's an independent lawyer (meaning they have no relations with the company) that the agent offered to us so he can help us go through the contract. It's not our lawyer, not someone who we assigned.

That is fine - but they can only work on instruction - so if they are not asked "what is the cooling off period" for example, they are under no obligation to tell you. Especially if their brief has been from the agent "Hey, here's another customer reallly really keen to buy one of our propoerties - please help them to make sure they can secure this purchase".

The Y-man
 
Are there high demands in the CBD areas (where we bought the property). I read an article not long ago about oversupplying issues and wondering if it effects CBD area as well.

There'll always be demand - the CBD is *very* close proximity to work and uni's.

The Y-man
 
Correct. And for that price I can tell you won't be able to get anything in Sydney for a brand new apartment with that sort of distance to the city.
The other day I went to look at the crown project at Parramatta. The price for 1 bedder is around 750+.

Good luck
 
It's an independent lawyer (meaning they have no relations with the company)

that the agent offered to us so he can help us go through the contract.

It's not our lawyer, not someone who we assigned.

You STILL don't get it? The agent introduced you to this lawyer, and you don't think they have 'relations' with the company? You were 'assigned' the lawyer, and you think theyre independant? Lawyers aren't independent. They work for someone. If they aren't wrking for you, they're working against you.
 
You made a serious mistake here of going back to the lawyer and alerting him to that fact that you could be tying him up in litigation. He will now probably start back dating notes to show that he gave you advice in relation to the cooling off period.

It is also unclear what you contracted the lawyer for. What was your purpose in seeing him initially? Why was it a 10min meeting? You can?t expect someone to explain a 100 page contract in 10min including reading time.

You have entered a binding contract. You are stuck! But the vendor may allow you to terminate, but this is at their discretion.
You also have the option of seeking legal advice to find out if the contract is defective and this may allow you to rescind. But you only have limited time to rescind so you need immediate legal advice. It seems you have just wasted another 24 hours.

How can a sales person assign you an independent lawyer? Of course contracts can be signed without lawyers.
 
Thanks guys for the help.

How can a sales person assign you an independent lawyer? Of course contracts can be signed without lawyers.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we also need our solicitor's signature and their vendor's solicitor signature for the contract to be valid? Both were not present at the time. Again, I might be wrong.
 
It is also unclear what you contracted the lawyer for. What was your purpose in seeing him initially? Why was it a 10min meeting? You can?t expect someone to explain a 100 page contract in 10min including reading time.

The sales told us we cannot assign NSW solicitor to this contract as they cannot practice without Victorian licence which was why we accepted their 'independent' lawyer to help us with any contract issues + he was there to tell us if we are going to assign any Victorian solicitor later when it's settled, he can do it for $1300.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we also need our solicitor's signature and their vendor's solicitor signature for the contract to be valid? Both were not present at the time. Again, I might be wrong.

Who told you that? The sales agent?

My god - I can't tell whether you're trolling, incredibly naive, or just been comprehensively stitched up by this sales agent.
 
Thanks guys for the help.



Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we also need our solicitor's signature and their vendor's solicitor signature for the contract to be valid? Both were not present at the time. Again, I might be wrong.

Not needed.
 
The sales told us we cannot assign NSW solicitor to this contract as they cannot practice without Victorian licence which was why we accepted their 'independent' lawyer to help us with any contract issues + he was there to tell us if we are going to assign any Victorian solicitor later when it's settled, he can do it for $1300.

This is not the case.
 
Who told you that? The sales agent?

My god - I can't tell whether you're trolling, incredibly naive, or just been comprehensively stitched up by this sales agent.

That's what the lawyers I have spoken to said. Maybe I'm completely mind-****ed by the sales agent / lawyer or whoever I speak to because I'm being told different things...
 
That's what the lawyers I have spoken to said. Maybe I'm completely mind-****ed by the sales agent / lawyer or whoever I speak to because I'm being told different things...

Mr Bum is a lawyer and I am a lawyer too. lawyers in one state can do covenyancing in another state. Most don't because there are different rules and procedures between the states and it is not worth learning unless you are going to be doing a lot of conveyancing.

If you are in Sydney I can point you to property lawyers who have experience in Victorian property transactions and who could possibly help.
 
Education

Hoon, it is pretty clear that you have gone into this without a complete understanding of the process and were willing to trust what the salesman said to you without really critically evaluating what is going on. Good on you for asking for help now, but obviously you needed more help initially.

In my earlier post I suggested that you need to evaluate your thinking processes, if I can give you one simple statement that might assist with this it would be "think first, act second". The thinking process is what helps you sort out things like;
1) where should I buy and what should I buy?
2) how much can I afford to spend?
3) how much can I borrow and who will lend to me?
4) what income does the property need to generate in order that I can hold it for an extended period so that ultimately you can get the CG you want.
5) who do I need assistance from to purchase a property in another state if I decide to do that?
6) who can I trust? (pretty much just the people you have appointed and are paying)

I don't mean to sound like a smartear$e by the way, I just feel that you need to reflect on how you are going about things. For example asking now whether there will be enough rent to fund the loan is indicative of a lack of thinking (no disrespect meant). This is not to say that you aren't a competent investor, perhaps more of an indication that you tend to act before thinking. Understanding this about yourself is important for future decision making.

Don't compare your purchase to Sydney or any other market. The best indicator of value is what established similar properties are selling for in the same vicinity. Be careful however to consider differentials that arise due to view, aspect, size and finishes. Also, a car park in the CBD area will have a significant effect on price. In Brisbane I price a car park at $50,000 in the inner city suburbs. I have no idea about Melbourne, but I suspect a CBD car park could be worth $75,000-$100,000 on the buy price.

Trev
 
That's what the lawyers I have spoken to said. Maybe I'm completely mind-****ed by the sales agent / lawyer or whoever I speak to because I'm being told different things...

Why did you believe 1) the agent who makes money only if you buy and 2) the lawyer who the agent 'introduced' you to?
 
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