Over zealous agent? Or owner? Both?

We are currently renting after a last minute move to sydney, making sure we like the area etc before buying. It is the first time we have rented a house in over 10 years. We are landlords ourselves so thought we knew a bit about this renting racket.

We just had the 3 month inspection, we were actually intestate at the time but I really wasn't worried about the agent having a look at the property.

We have received a letter from the agent outlining the most outrageous requests (IMO). Among the complaints were things like some dirty fingerprints on the walls in the children's room, a blue tacked picture on my daughters wardrobe, one corner of the backyard needed weeding and there was a missing doorstop. All of these things "require our immediate attention".

I'm flabbergasted. This is not a new house! It must have had a fresh coat of paint before we moved in because there is not a single picture hook etc on the wall (and we would need to submit a map of proposed hooks to the owner for permission if we wanted to put some in!) but apart from that the place is really ordinary. I'm pretty pissed about the yard comment to be honest, seeing as we spent quite a few hours when we first moved in removing PILES off rotting off cuts of wood that were full of rusty nails. We have also moved the hundreds of broken old plant pots in the backyard and weeded and planted the veggie garden. Even the neighbours have said the place looks heaps better. The grass was a little overgrown but only because we had been away for two weeks!

We pay the rent 2 days early every single week, the place is well cared for and clean I just don't get why you would risk ******* good tenants off? The owners came through with the agent so can't work out if its them or the agent. We won't be renewing the lease.

As a landlord I really try to look after my tenants, I certainly don't go out of my way to make them uncomfortable in their own home. Is this normal nowadays?
 
We pay the rent 2 days early every single week, the place is well cared for and clean I just don't get why you would risk ******* good tenants off? The owners came through with the agent so can't work out if its them or the agent. We won't be renewing the lease.

Paying rent is just meeting your responsibilities as a tenant, as is keeping it well-cared for and clean. In a relatively tight rental market, good tenants aren’t all that hard to find.

As a landlord I really try to look after my tenants, I certainly don't go out of my way to make them uncomfortable in their own home. Is this normal nowadays?

It’s not the tenant’s home. It's a property where they get privileges in exchange for rent, and also have responsibilities. The owner gets rent, and also has responsibilities. Don't make it emotional.

If you happen to look after your tenants above and beyond legal requirements, that’s your choice.
 
So the above is not unreasonable? I would have thought keeping the house cleaner (inside and out) than the owners was going above just legal responibility. One persons clean is another persons filthy, it is objective. This place is really clean (or it was before the children got home :cool:) I feel like the agent and/or owner is being petty and unreasonable.

You are right, the owners/agents have responsibilities as well. I have tried to contact the agent twice by phone, with no call back. We submitted a pet application, never heard back - only little things that wouldn't normally worry me but....

Will probably now submit the maintenance forms about the sticky doors, the bubbles in the spa and the stove light not working. Just a shame it all has to be like this.
 
And I disagree with you with regards to the tenants home. It is my house but it is their home. I probably am more emotional than some investors but it hasn't hurt me in the past. Having a bit of empathy and wanting people to be happy can be a real win-win.
 
<Among [my italics] the complaints were things like some dirty fingerprints on the walls in the children's room, a blue tacked picture on my daughters wardrobe, one corner of the backyard needed weeding and there was a missing doorstop>

The PM has an obligation to advise you of deficiencies found in the inspection and to request correction. Without a formal request being made s/he would not be meeting the requirements of the regulations and her/his contractual obligations.

The PM didn't write the regulations and if there is any dispute later a tribunal demand to know if you were properly advised and requested to make it good.
 
Sorry, should have outlined the ONE legitimate note was a small chip of paint that the kitchen chair had taken off the wall.

All the rest were unreasonable IMO.
 
The usual term of a tenancy agreement is to keep the premises in a reasonable state of cleanliness.

Not a pristine/showroom/anal state of cleanliness.

I agree - its probably unreasonable, more so about the way they raised the issue ("immediate attention"). There's no problem really in bringing it up, but its not a licence to be rude considering its not the tenant's legal obligation to fix straight away.
 
From the OP there is no evidence of any demand for "a pristine/showroom/anal state of cleanliness".

Again, the PM did not write the regulations and a Notice is what a tribunal would later be looking for as evidence that the deficiencies were to be remedied.

Blue tack for example, does irreparable damage to a painted surface.
 
From the OP there is no evidence of any demand for "a pristine/showroom/anal state of cleanliness".

Again, the PM did not write the regulations and a Notice is what a tribunal would later be looking for as evidence that the deficiencies were to be remedied.

Blue tack for example, does irreparable damage to a painted surface.

Well then what other potential breach of the tenancy agreement is the PM complaining about?

The tribunal makes determinations on the regulations and lease agreement obviously.
 
As a landlord I really try to look after my tenants, I certainly don't go out of my way to make them uncomfortable in their own home. Is this normal nowadays?

To answer the the title question: the PM would generally be acting on the owner's instructions.

I really don't enjoy taking owners along to routine inspections, as it is usually long and painful. Many owners have wildly unrealistic expectations of how people (tenants) live.

One of our PMs has been fired AT the property for refusing to breach a tenant for "un-made beds and dirty dishes left in the sink from last night's dinner!" Frankly, that's none of the owner's business.

It sounds like you might have a slightly unrealistic owner on your hands. I can guarantee that the PM would have better things to do with her time than annoy you unless she is being forced.

I also agree that she seems heavy handed in her approach, and has used language that doesn't help the situation. Keep in mind that she is required to put things in writing to you, in case it comes up down the track.

If I was the property manager conducting your routine inspection, my email to you would be something along the lines of:

"Hi JessP,

I inspected the property with the owner today, and noted a few items that I am required to bring to your attention. The garden looked good but there were a few weeds in the back corner. I am sure that you're across this, but the owner just wanted to make sure that it doesn't get too out of control.

Also, I did notice a chip in the kitchen wall that may have been caused by a chair. I understand this is part of life, but we will need this to be repaired when you move out. Also, there are some handprints on the wall and posters stuck on with blu-tac. Please be conscious that blu-tac can damage the paint, and I wouldn't want you to have to re-paint those rooms also.

Other than those items above, the owner and I were happy with how you are keeping the property. Please do let me know if any maintenance items come up between now and the next routine inspection.

Thanks, Mattt"
 
Well then what other potential breach of the tenancy agreement is the PM complaining about?

The tribunal makes determinations on the regulations and lease agreement obviously.

What duty does the PM have other than to ensure the tenant is informed of deficiencies? What remedy do you suggest, because if smaller issues can escalate into larger, or if they continue, more detriment eventuates?

A tribunal will always state first up that the tenant must be informed in a timely manner. Picking things up later is never good enough.

This assumes that the rare frivolous owner complaint as mentioned by Matt is just that, rare.

As much as you might argue that tenants generally only complain over real issues, that logic and respect should also be extended to PMs. A number of deficiencies were noted as was the duty of the PM. Fix them and move on. All else is needless, unfounded speculation.

Like many thousands of other reasonable and principled tenants, owners and PMs, I would like to return to the days where a hand shake and a simple lease were all that were required. That would still do for the substantial majority of people on either side of the contract.

But government has intervened continually for years. Particularly as government transfers its responsibility for welfare housing to the private sector. The regulations and processes are now highly formalised, quasi-legal, complex and often counter-intuitive. Great for lawyers and those who live by their wits, but bringing expensive overheads and head-banging rituals for the rest of us.
 
What duty does the PM have other than to ensure the tenant is informed of deficiencies? What remedy do you suggest, because if smaller issues can escalate into larger, or if they continue, more detriment eventuates?

A tribunal will always state first up that the tenant must be informed in a timely manner. Picking things up later is never good enough.

This assumes that the rare frivolous owner complaint as mentioned by Matt is just that, rare.

As much as you might argue that tenants generally only complain over real issues, that logic and respect should also be extended to PMs. A number of deficiencies were noted as was the duty of the PM. Fix them and move on. All else is needless, unfounded speculation.

Like many thousands of other reasonable and principled tenants, owners and PMs, I would like to return to the days where a hand shake and a simple lease were all that were required. That would still do for the substantial majority of people on either side of the contract.

But government has intervened continually for years. Particularly as government transfers its responsibility for welfare housing to the private sector. The regulations and processes are now highly formalised, quasi-legal, complex and often counter-intuitive. Great for lawyers and those who live by their wits, but bringing expensive overheads and head-banging rituals for the rest of us.

....what?

All I was asking is how JessP was breaching her lease agreement in a way that required "immediate attention"?

Especially considering any damage intentionally or negligently caused by a tenant is their liability at the end of the day.

I would be pretty pissed off if my PMs acted like this one did (as the landlord). Its the main reason I do my own inspections actually.
 
As an owner and landlord who has received many (many many) inspection reports ... in reply to the OP question ... I would guess it is an overzealous owner peering over the PM's shoulder and getting in their ear.

Also as a past renter we have had on our leases "no bluetack" but his is obvious when you see carpet that has been attacked by bluetack, or paint that has been sucked off the walls - horrible but handy stuff.

Take a deep breath, weed the corner with some poison spray and ignore the rest.
 
The main problem is that each Landlord has different expectations of how a routine inspection should be carried out and how any 'issues' should be dealt with. Some require a basic overview of the condition of the property and only want the tenant contacted with more major things, other Landlords want every corner of the property inspected and photographed and the tenant contacted with every little minor item.

Best way to have the inspections conducted and dealt with in a manner you are happy with is to give clear written instructions of your expectations to your PM - otherwise your property will be inspected in the same way they inspect all their properties whatever that might be. Routine inspections depending on the agency can take between 2 minutes and half an hour (or longer if the Landlord is in attendance!) depending on their company procedures.

As a tenant unfortunately you are subject to the Landlords instructions to the agent or to their company procedures, some are over zealous and some are slack......luck of the draw.
 
And I disagree with you with regards to the tenants home. It is my house but it is their home. I probably am more emotional than some investors but it hasn't hurt me in the past. Having a bit of empathy and wanting people to be happy can be a real win-win.

I think it is unreasonable as well. I would prefer to treat my tenants with respect so long as they hold their end of the bargain.

Some people go on a power trip, seriously.

Keep the tenant happy and comfortable and they will probably become long term and more than likely take better care of the place.
 
My thoughts exactly.

I did speak to the agent in this case. She sounded pretty frustrated with the owner. It was their ppor for 20 years and we are the first tenants so they are struggling with emotional attachment. The agent agrees they are being unreasonable.

I should have been told the owners were coming through though so not happy about that. Bring on the end of lease and our own house again! I like the other side a lot better!
 
This is unreasonable.

A tenant is within their rights to live as they see fit in the home - as long as they are not causing damage to the home.

I would argue that fingerprints are not damaging the home.

As a tenant you have more legal rights to the home than the landlord does; your lease entitles you to a huge array of rights, one of them being the right to enjoyment of the home free from harassment from either the owner or the agent.
 
We are going through something similar at the moment. We have inspections every three months and at each one (there have been 3), there have been ridiculous things noted. Like dust in a doorframe.

The funny thing is that that paticular door doesn't work properly! The rollers are shot and we have asked so many times for it to be fixed but nothing.

Also we have a split system but the wood heater is stuffed and there is a whole host of other issues that haven't been addressed by the agents or landlords. I would understand the pickiness if it went both ways but sheesh, they are so slack!
 
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