Owner Builder Experiences?

So I'm decided to finally do the knock down rebuild of my PPOR to see me comfortable in my advancing years.

Been speaking to builders and finding them to be either arrogant young guys quoting super high or well known older guys who don't return calls or use emails and don't like new ideas because they haven't done them before. They want to build what they always built and their main point is that they live in a house like that and they think it is good enough.

So I guess I got to explore the Owner Builder concept.

Anyone done it and can share their experiences?

Pros,

Save money,
Get what I want,
Fill my time which I have plenty of.
I'm pretty smart, how hard can it be?

Cons

Banker is scared of it
Traders might try it on with me when they realise I am new to the game
No warranty from one builder.
Can imagine it will drag on and I will probably hate it at some point. I got a pretty short attention span which more than offsets my high IQ :)

As I said, I am pretty smart. Smarter than some people I see taking this route. Though maybe I'm not as trades smart. My missus is a barrister so she understands contracts and insurance etc.

What can you guys add?
 
So I'm decided to finally do the knock down rebuild of my PPOR to see me comfortable in my advancing years.

Been speaking to builders and finding them to be either arrogant young guys quoting super high or well known older guys who don't return calls or use emails and don't like new ideas because they haven't done them before. They want to build what they always built and their main point is that they live in a house like that and they think it is good enough.

So I guess I got to explore the Owner Builder concept.

Anyone done it and can share their experiences?

Pros,

Save money,
Get what I want,
Fill my time which I have plenty of.
I'm pretty smart, how hard can it be?

Cons

Banker is scared of it
Traders might try it on with me when they realise I am new to the game
No warranty from one builder.
Can imagine it will drag on and I will probably hate it at some point. I got a pretty short attention span which more than offsets my high IQ :)

As I said, I am pretty smart. Smarter than some people I see taking this route. Though maybe I'm not as trades smart. My missus is a barrister so she understands contracts and insurance etc.

What can you guys add?

I would go with the older builder any-day at least they have a stand-alone reputation, apart from the banking-insurance side you would have to do a tafe course first,that would help too talk the talk,but it all comes back too one item the "Plan",after the site is level and the plans are passed it's only three stages,the slab,the frame ,and the final fitoff and what happens in between,,makes zero difference if one in the family is a Barrister the letter head may look the part and sometimes does not worry anyone if they know how to play the legal system,,good luck..
 
I meant that she understands how to read a contract etc. not suggesting I would use her to intimidate anyone.

Some good points there. Problem is the older guy spends three weeks to answer any question I have. I don't figure he will get better at communicating once he has my business stitched up.
 
I've done it before on a granny flat - which is just a smaller version of a full house build - same issues, same number of trades required.
Pros,
Save money,
Not always. You won't get trade prices and tradies normally increase their quotes for OB's because they get stuffed around so much because you don't know what you're doing and you won't be like their builder mate to give them the next job and the next.
Get what I want,
You can get that from a builder.
Fill my time which I have plenty of.
OK
I'm pretty smart, how hard can it be?
Smart does not equal experienced. Project Managers do a course for several years.....

Cons

Banker is scared of it
Understandably. They've been burned by OBs before. (typically you overrun the budget and run out of money to complete)
Traders might try it on with me when they realise I am new to the game
Yup
No warranty from one builder.
And everyone buck-passes. At least a head contractor can back-charge a tradie for damaging some other trade's work. This happens frequently on a build.
Can imagine it will drag on and I will probably hate it at some point. I got a pretty short attention span which more than offsets my high IQ :)
Building projects need attention to detail people NOT short attention span people.:eek:

As I said, I am pretty smart. Smarter than some people I see taking this route. Though maybe I'm not as trades smart. My missus is a barrister so she understands contracts and insurance etc.
What can you guys add?
I hope I've talked you out of it. ;)
 
There is a misconception that OB is cheaper than contracting it out to a builder. I believe this is incorrect. It is actually quite a bit more expensive to do it yourself unless you are a builder.

Have you tried contacting project home builder that to custom design homes? Generally speaking, you will find that the project home builders are more professional to deal with and should be cheaper and more reliable than private builders.

What style of home are you building?
 
There is a misconception that OB is cheaper than contracting it out to a builder. I believe this is incorrect. It is actually quite a bit more expensive to do it yourself unless you are a builder.

Have you tried contacting project home builder that to custom design homes? Generally speaking, you will find that the project home builders are more professional to deal with and should be cheaper and more reliable than private builders.

What style of home are you building?

I don't think OB is worth it if you are going for a very generic house or have a very standard, flat block without much slope. Most volume builders will not touch blocks with a certain degree of slope.

From my experience OB for my folks (about 8 years ago), it was hella hard work and in those days you didn't need a certificate you need now obtained via some TAFE course. It was a lot of 5am starts for me and I was on a non office job (procurement) where I could sometimes work from home or be out and about and actually do work on the house instead of real work.

Having said all that, if you did have the time and patience and eye for detail and it is going to be your forever home and you didn't mind spending a little on quality, it can work out better overall. You must have trusted and quality tradesman, however. We found many unwilling to do our job due to warranty issues and found this pretty much the biggest issue.

Chippies doing the frame, concreters doing the foundation were by far the most difficult to find (quality wise). Plumbers, Electricians and architects/draftmans/surveyors we basically used via the yellow pages back then and quoted using who we found offered the best quality-price ratio.

Once the structure and skeleton (foundation, frame, bricks, roof, plumbing) was up, the inside was relatively easy....wouldn't say it was much more than a large renovation.
 
My 2 Cents for what its worth.

14 yrs ago my now wife and I went full owner builder.

The house we wanted we couldn't afford, not the exterior look and feel but everything inside, from room sizes, to his/her options to double power points everywhere and I mean everywhere, intermediate light switching which no builder would touch without a massive excess, and we started the actual build in the highs of 2002 when everyone (builders) were enjoying quotes of $1,500/psm.

The first thing I say (maybe as a joke) to young couples who are love struck and want to get married is : BUILD A HOUSE TOGETHER!

If you survive the full OB process and still love each other in the end and haven't ripped each other apart then you have found the one.

It tests every aspect of what a marriage will test - just sooner rather than later.

Now from an OB specific point of view, we built a massive tri-level over 44 squares on a 660 land with a 3 meter fall, why is this important, because I wasn't ready nor did I have the knowledge of what costs would come about because of this, I do now hence why I have a very clear block type and build type and ratio type for a property now.

If your an excellent project manager who is handy you will do well.

We found project management to be the ultimate skill set required, sure I learned practically all non-structural trades whilst doing this and I did a crap load of the work required whenever and where ever I could.

I worked with almost all of my trades. Negotiation skills are a must, never pay retail, know your values and market rates then learn how to strike a deal (this was probably my only skill going into this) I had no trade experience, except industrial technology at school, I was keen, handy and always willing to step up.

I rarely slept, our social life took a massive dive for some time, and it was all consuming.

I designed every element, I was living in our house years before in my mind, I imagined every detail, when it was being built I walked it daily living and breathing every room, I believe this was a big reason why it got finished.

You need to be self motivated, there are so few experienced OB's and family are generally negative towards such things because of the risk, builders will generally not give you the time of day unless you find someone like I did who challenge me to do some work for him because he thought I was a pencil pusher, I did many months in the end with him for free learning everything I could and we became friends.

I can cover itemised details of the experience in other posts if you ask for specifics, if you decide to go ahead, I will be here to answer what I can and support you along the way as it's a lonely journey.

Finance was a challenge, but my wife and I still look back and laugh at how we got away with it, nothing illegal, just constant research, and negotiations with many many financial institutions.

Not for the faint hearted.

What do I think now of the house we live in? It has absolutely everything I dreamed about walking the floorboards, there is nothing I would change, as for the next house there is plenty I would change, for example: flat blocks, single storey with 3m ceilings as oppose to tri levels and about a few dozen other things when the kids move on.

I hope this intro helps.
 
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Done it three times, challenging but that's why I love it. You must work out a budget and stick to it, dont get sucked in with extras, better quality this and that and changing things once they are built else you will go the way of most ob and run out of money. You must work out a progress plan, stick to it, notify the next trade when you will need them and if they have to be put off, book in for the next time, otherwise you will be waiting on them to fit you in. Start looking for and chosing your colours inside and out, fittings, tiles etc. early as possible as this takes much longer and is more unpleasant than you would think. You must plan and think ahead to what the next stage is at all times. Learn to read plans and check what the tradies are doing at all times. The bank wouldnt finance us and I believe they wont loan to owner builders now, you might have more luck. Know your own character and whether you can stand up to people and hold your ground on what you want.
 
I have not done a complete OB of a house, but have progressed a fair bit along a 46 sq m extension/renovation.

From my experience, hard work - yes, savings - yes. It will be amazing achievement and experience to look back with satisfaction!

You can learn so much, but it has to be applicable to the standard required by the city council. You have to start from that, get the qualification. Along the way you will need a mentor, an understanding certifier of OB is essential.

Overall be realistic with the time that may be required of you and therefore the progress on the job. Expect corrections of incorrect work and be patient with yourself. Adequately protect yourself with handling of all sorts of tools and in a potentially hazardous environment. All the best! :)
 
Hi Simon, not sure about NSW but WA TAFE used to run an owner builder course, once a week, at night, for about ten weeks I think. There is also a condensed weekend version at the home builders centre here, might be worth having a look at. Good luck.
 
Anyone done it and can share their experiences?
Building a house was on my bucket list... so I did it. It was satisfying & not especially stressful.

Save money,
Get what I want,
Fill my time which I have plenty of.
I'm pretty smart, how hard can it be?

Cons

Banker is scared of it
Traders might try it on with me when they realise I am new to the game
No warranty from one builder.
Can imagine it will drag on and I will probably hate it at some point. I got a pretty short attention span which more than offsets my high IQ :)
You probably won't save money.
You will have to make lots of decisions/compromises. And you will mostly get what you want.
Many tradies have built their own houses & can empathise. There are lots of good ones around who won't rip you off - your BS radar will help you find the right ones.
If you're definitely staying there for 7 yrs with Home Owner Warranty won't be any benefit to you.
It will drag on & some things will never get finished. But the tasks & issues will be different at every stage, so losing interest isn't a given.
 
'Building is easy, people make it difficult! ' - that was one of the first lessons learned in my building degree. It was all about management, risk management, cost control, planning, contracts/contract law & some building subjects ;)

Yes , I have built my own house. Did it save money? Who knows/not going to tell.

Challenging - at times.
Rewarding- definitely.
 
The first thing I say (maybe as a joke) to young couples who are love struck and want to get married is : BUILD A HOUSE TOGETHER!

If you survive the full OB process and still love each other in the end and haven't ripped each other apart then you have found the one.

It tests every aspect of what a marriage will test - just sooner rather than later.

What do I think now of the house we live in? It has absolutely everything I dreamed about walking the floorboards, there is nothing I would change, as for the next house there is plenty I would change, for example: flat blocks, single storey with 3m ceilings as oppose to tri levels and about a few dozen other things when the kids move on.

I hope this intro helps.

Nice post :)

I'm about to go through a similar relationship testing experience and hope we have the same result.

Quite a few other posts mention owner building to be more expensive? :confused: I can see how this would be the case for a poorly planned/executed project, but I'm expecting big savings with owner building (doing as much work as I can).

Materials bought should still get trade discount. I've been quoted 15% discount when mentioning OB.
Based on previous experiences with tradies, without trying to be smug, I think I can achieve the same result or better. Some have been shockers.
One should save on the builder's margin. Why pay an extra 20% for not engaging a subbie direct?
As mentioned before doing as much work without contracting out should get the most savings.
 
All depends on how you look at it though. 15% trade discounts sounds good, but as a builder you expect about 30% off RRP on items. Then factor in your man hours at a conservative $50 an hour...

I say go for it, but if the margin of the builder is 20% I would say you will probably break even on the build comparatively.

The satisfaction though will be priceless, and you will get exactly what you want.
 
Nice post :)

I'm about to go through a similar relationship testing experience and hope we have the same result.

Quite a few other posts mention owner building to be more expensive? :confused: I can see how this would be the case for a poorly planned/executed project, but I'm expecting big savings with owner building (doing as much work as I can).

Materials bought should still get trade discount. I've been quoted 15% discount when mentioning OB.
Based on previous experiences with tradies, without trying to be smug, I think I can achieve the same result or better. Some have been shockers.
One should save on the builder's margin. Why pay an extra 20% for not engaging a subbie direct?
As mentioned before doing as much work without contracting out should get the most savings.

Cost was THE driving force behind our decision, no real cash, no assets at the time, one job between us that was paying about $40K, I was self employed trying to get my business off the ground, I was also a courier to bring extra cash but eventually gave that away to focus on my business and also the business of being an owner builder.

I was pretty good (tongue in cheek) at budgeting and I was extremely good at multi tasking which can become a downfall.

We ran over budget by the end of the project by about 25%, but then we added that in value and extra features that we wanted, this is sometimes the biggest issue people face. Do I replicate a spec build and save costs or do I build something I want that can also add value long term.

As time passed and technology came into play and new products were being developed and released we would assess their value in our project.

For example: A non-budgeted freestanding 2000L water tank setup versus a 5000L underground system. When we started, landscaping was planned to be minimal and not really important, at the end we refinanced and did excavations, underground water tanks with multi tap systems and pumps as well as whole of house external concreting which had about 200 sqm and all sorts of stuff plus under the house which was never on the initial plan.

This is just one example of inexperience vs cashflow vs value add vs over capitalising, do I regret the decision, hell no! but it's a decision you have to live with so make it count.

As for trade discounts, I got them everywhere, it was mandatory, like I said "you need to be a good negotiator" fight for every dollar you have and make those little gold puppies work.

I would always be dressed in my king gees, boots, messy shirt, from being on site and when I walked in and talked they just asked what account, I said cash, and away we went, bullk discounts on bathroom fitouts, kitchens (if you do the install) appliances etc etc, own this job because you are living it.

Now fast forward a little to today with more resources, financial stability, and a business, I would still build, but I would negotiate and project manage ONLY, would I be doing all the trades again? No, only because of how I value my time, back then I didn't value my time, I valued cashflow.

If you have experience in the trade areas, go for it, if you don't, then get some and then go for it. Or negotiate with your trades that your handy and will be their off sider on your site.

I was particularly anal about things, that will add to cost you then spend more time getting things right and looking for higher quality products.

Expect the unexpected, ***** can and does happen (seriously believe it or not) try to remember this little gem: MEASURE TWICE, CUT ONCE ... it will make sense in time but needless to say it will save you time and money.

Oh and if you have a solid trade (like my plumber) look after them, pay them on time or when you say your going too, don't mess them about, this is how I secured my trades at a time when builders had all the work on, they knew that they had cash at the end of the week with me instead of having to chase the project builders for a couple of months to pay their invoices.

Learn to assess everything ..

For example:
Would I sheet, set and sand my whole of house again - NEVER! am I good at it, you bet however, your ego has no place at the table when making decisions like this, lessons I had to learn over and over until it sunk in.

The satisfaction though will be priceless, and you will get exactly what you want.

Absolutely! I couldn't say this any better myself..

Enjoy!
 
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