Perth thoughts.....?

[Aaron Sice]

Thoughts please...

New subdivision. Existing area. SE Perth.

Everything in area (like, everything) is 28c / 31c flat ceilings, pool-table sized backyard, 4x2 double garage, double brick / colorbond.

Proposing larger 3x2, double garage as a duplex pair, side by side on corner lot.

Courtyard at over 35m? overlooks park, direct frontage (direct, no road between). Adjacent to farmland over road.

Raking ceilings, clerestory windows, very modern elevation. Informal layout.

All framed construction. Internal wall insulation, R4.0 external. Service court to remove everyday items (washing line, HWS etc) from courtyard. All bedrooms open to the outside to another shared courtyard space and setback area overlooking farmland.

Pushing sustainability elements - development is obviously different product, will appeal to a very different demographic.

'Double Brick' still niggling at me. Assurances? Concerns?

Cheers.

 

[Aaron Sice]

floor plans

 

[Aaron Sice]

elevations.

 

[Ausprop]

As an owner of 3x2's I often wonder who the heck its actually pitched at.

 

[thatbum]

I really like it. I'm a big believer of the fact that once you can get buyers in the door and seeing the modern interiors, the whole 'double brick' thing is forgotten.

So my only comment is that maybe have even more 'bling' to the facade/elevations. Maybe something like black exterior with timber panelling (personal preference, but you get what I mean).

 

[westminster]

I like the layout. I'm not too sure on the elevation but overall I like the designs and use of the block.

 

[westminster]

I know on your mockups it's representative but like Thatbum says consider sexing it up more.

- tiled feature wall
- more colour variation
- different types of Scyon for contrast
- stone cladding

 

[Rixter]

Elevations dont look right. ..maybe alter that a little.

Rest is good use... well done.

 

[HiEquity]

There's nothing you can do about it but there's no way you could claim it as a sustainable design. I would suggest dumping that angle?

- Garage on north side - no winter solar gain
- Windows on the west / east - lots of summer solar gain...

The block is oriented completely the wrong way for a sustainable build - you want the max northern exposure and minimal east and west walls. Anything else is just fluff IMHO.

You might find a buyer who likes the idea of R4 in the walls etc but as I've explained before the R rating of a wall only deals with conductive heat flow - not radiation. A double brick wall with double backed foil / foam in the cavity and two lots of cavity ventilation will perform just as well in the real world. In this design the colour of the walls are going to probably be a bigger factor. Of course the fact that the walls are shaded by next door will help in summer but there is no solar heat gain in winter.

R-ratings of insulation are relevant in cold climate designs - eg Hobart / Scandinavia. For a temperature climate like Perth the real world thermal performance of the building is far more dependent on its orientation wrt the sun.

Aaron - I know you already know this - it's more for the benefit of others reading the thread. The difference for me here is that I don't think it's worth pursuing the sustainable angle - there's too much going against it.

Let me know if you want a good deal on solar / HWS! Spend the money on more solar panels instead so you can run those R/C air cons all the time! Not that I'm biased...

 

[Ausprop]

You might find a buyer who likes the idea of R4 in the walls etc but as I've explained before the R rating of a wall only deals with conductive heat flow - not radiation. A double brick wall with double backed foil / foam in the cavity and two lots of cavity ventilation will perform just as well in the real world.

Out of interest, Aaron do you agree?

I don't understand any of it, I can understand the concept of a pizza oven tho.

Am wondering why you would go to so much trouble just to produce something 'as good as' something else?

 

[Aaron Sice]

Direct North exposure for solar gain means bupkiss in Perth - Melbourne maybe, Hobart definitely - Perth? No way. Give me shade for those 8 months of the year I bake. We don't exactly have a "Winter" here anyway, and certainly nothing to warrant the Australian way of taking British models and changing South for North.

Plenty of light getting in - the clerestory windows capture the light without the direct heat transfer.

Unfortunately sustainability models only consider one orientation to be correct - forgetting there are many ways to skin a cat, other than "living areas facing north".

I understand the effects of the sun. I live here too. Slippers and a Cardi' don't exactly convey "Winter".

The lot is set opposite a park. There is a laneway to the North.

By the previous comments, it seems like there's no hope for the lot, so I should just build a sh it box and not bother.

Gosh I love Perth attitudes.

 

[Ausprop]

can't give you kudos, you've had too much already...

Even in summer I like the western light coming in, who wants to sit in shade on a pleasant summer evening?

This is such an interesting topic.

Re framing... don't give up Aaron, I think the market is ready for it

 

[Aaron Sice]

Out of interest, Aaron do you agree?

I don't understand any of it, I can understand the concept of a pizza oven tho.

Am wondering why you would go to so much trouble just to produce something 'as good as' something else?

Depends. Peppy trees shade the West. I have 750mm eaves that side.

radiant heat - as Antony suggests - is a concern. I don't think double brick walls facing east and west are a good outcome - ever - because cavities vent into roof spaces.

 

[Aaron Sice]

can't give you kudos, you've had too much already...

Even in summer I like the western light coming in, who wants to sit in shade on a pleasant summer evening?

This is such an interesting topic.

Re framing... don't give up Aaron, I think the market is ready for it

Exactly - it's about light plays, not thermal mass performance.

 

[Aaron Sice]

I know on your mockups it's representative but like Thatbum says consider sexing it up more.

- tiled feature wall
- more colour variation
- different types of Scyon for contrast
- stone cladding

hi Myf - there's no way you'll catch me putting anything other than a gabian wall in place between the dwellings.

I have Scyon Matrix, Scyon Stria, Scyon Axion, Colorbond and Cedar. Any more and it'll look like an owner build....

I'm using form to delineate the pair, not colour. Works well in places I've seen it done - it's one of those things that sounds odd until you see it.

i have toyed with the front verandah with the matrix cladding being woodland grey, though...being south facing and all though might not reflect enough light.

 

[Aaron Sice]

Elevations dont look right. ..maybe alter that a little.

i no unnastan?

 

[Rixter]

i no unnastan?

Sorry, Roof pitch

 

[HiEquity]

Aaron, if you don't understand summer heat gain through west and east facing windows and walls then I am concerned. Sure it may be nice to let in the afternoon light in summer but don't complain when the house get hot - just whack on another air con instead! It's not just about winter performance when, in any case, I prefer to live in a warm house rather than a cold one. YMMV.

As for cavities venting into roof spaces - absolutely. Which is why you need somewhere for the heat to go afterwards.

BTW one of the big benefits of solar panels is in shading the roof but find me a model that takes it into account...

Edit - I'm clearly just talking my book when I point out that spending money on solar panels and air conditioning would give much better bang for buck than exotic building materials. At least the impact can be quantified properly rather than having blind faith in R values. Just my opinion!

 

[westminster]

hi Myf - there's no way you'll catch me putting anything other than a gabian wall in place between the dwellings.

I have Scyon Matrix, Scyon Stria, Scyon Axion, Colorbond and Cedar. Any more and it'll look like an owner build....

I'm using form to delineate the pair, not colour. Works well in places I've seen it done - it's one of those things that sounds odd until you see it.

i have toyed with the front verandah with the matrix cladding being woodland grey, though...being south facing and all though might not reflect enough light.

My spatial sense is struggling today so I'm trying to work out the block in the scale of it's surroundings - laneway, parklands etc

Sounds like plenty of variation then if you have that mix of materials.

 

[Angel]

Hi Aaron

I love the idea of building something other than brick/blocks and something that is not the same as every other house in the estate. However I am wondering if you might find that dumbass residents cant bring themselves to try anything a bit different from the norm.

I would want venting in the roof if it isn't there already. We have a large three bedroom home rather than a tiny 4 and I wouldn't have it any other way. On the other hand, my views are considered quite weird to the average consumer. I too would rather have passive design and natural temperature control than reach for the air con and pay for the electricity consumption if it isn't necessary.

We built our house in 1988 on very old outback design features including stumps rather than a slab, and almost couldn't find anyone to build it. A few years later several other homes in the suburb copied us, but at the time our house was considered quite strange.