Pharmaceutical Companies

Rather than taking this thread off topic, I have started a new thread in response to the claim crc_error has made below.

Do you kick up a fuss then a doctor gets a commission for prescribing drugs to his patients?
Off topic, but this is a serious breach of ethics; I would be seriously concerned about taking any medication, for which the prescriber had been given any commission... Bad example.
Well then you better do some research in the medical industry. doctors regularly get kickback from drug companies including if they prescribe certain dollar amounts etc..

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/327/7426/1248-a
Perhaps you should do the research;). Your reference does not even mention the word "kickbacks"; it refers to pharmaceutical companies "paying for doctors travel, accomodation and other promotional benefits". Sponsorship by pharmacutical companies is very common but companies have to be careful. You reference was from 2003... there is a new code of conduct to uphold, which you can see on the Medicines Australia link.

Here are three examples of companies fined by Medicines Australia for such events...

1) GlaxoSmithKline Australia received $210,000 in fines for two doctors' conferences at luxury hotels on Sydney's Darling Harbour. One conference called the "Gold GP diabetes forum" cost $102,970, with almost 90% of that spent on hospitality for the 79 doctors attending. Medicines Australia found "less than five hours of actual education was provided" and GSKA guilty of bringing discredit to the industry.
2) A two-day conference at the Sofitel on the Gold Coast for 36 registrars that cost almost $70,000 and included only 5½ hours of education, which earned drug company Nycomed a $60,000 fine.
3) A two-day physicians' clinical meeting in Quay West Resort Bunker Bay in WA comprising of five hours and 45 minutes of education, resulting in a $60,000 fine for Servier Laboratories.

You claim that "doctors regularly get kickback from drug companies". Can you give any examples of this? I am sure Medicines Australia would like to know.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/drug-companies-fined-record-18m-20080725-3l3c.html

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i avoided psoting in the last thread because it woudl have gone WAY OT.

in australia, doctors don't get commissions from drug companies. period.

my BIL is a GP and while he gets lovely christmas hampers, free accomodation and expenses paid for seminars that are IS or OS he DOES NOT - in any way, shape or form, receive any 1-2-3% commission or "prescription bonus" for anything recommended.

my BIL is an ethical person when it comes to medicine, like many of his counterparts, and will happily take the drug companies for a ride because he is aware what they are trying to do and does not agree.

1) it's highly unethical to accept a comm for pills. yes, i'm sure there are plenty of lazy-ar5e GPs out there who would rather prescribe amoxcyllin to a 2 year old than actually spend time working out the problem as to WHY they need antibiotics in the first place. happens all the time, but this does not mean they are getting a kickback!

if you are uncomfortable with this advice, you are free to seek a second opinion, get a new GP and tear up the script...!

2) doctors are aware of the self healing nature of the human body. they are not drug pumping zombie-robots fresh out of a drug company factory and installed as a dispensing machine, coming soon to a medical centre near you. doctors - more often than not, will under-dose you as a half placebo effect - you know you got something so you will get better. smart? cunning? no, just basic medicinal psychology. look up what happens in a medical trial if you are unsure as to what this is.

3) Choice magazine recently ran a great 4 page article on this exact subject. If anyone wants a copy, i am happy to post it to you. Just PM your postal addy and i will send it out.
 
10 years ago I would have agreed with free accommodation, free flights and gifts but not anymore. If you are under the opinion that they receive anything now from drug companies I think you better do a bit more investigating. A good mate of mine is a National Sales Manager for Pfizer, one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world.
Saying that it doesn’t happen at all would be naive but it is illegal now
 
Posted in other thread
The problem is, you will never know which medication they get commissions on, and how much. If they have 2 similar medications with different names, they will always push the one with the best commission. Sorry to tell you the bad news.
Bad news for the people getting the treatment that may not be best for them. There isn't any commision given - see above link.

I've worked in golf retail and teaching for over 25 years. If I had 2 similar golf clubs to recommend to a player and they couldn't decide, I'd decide for them-the one I made the most money on. Unprofessional? Not at all - they still got the right equipment, but I made some coin. Doctors are no different I'm sure.
Fair enough for you to recommend a particular golf club - that is not unprofessional. There is a difference however, between medication and golf clubs.

I used to teach golf to a group of 12 doctors. The classes were organised and paid for by the sales rep from a pharmaceutical company. Every week on a Tuesday at 8.00am for 2 hours, fully catered breakfast as well. I'm talking thousands of dollars all up. No doubt this was the tip of the iceberg. I've heard of pools, holidays etc as "incentives".
Yes it does go on very frequently. I don't have a problem with events such as these, so long as they are declared. I have heaps of pharmaceutical "freebies" at home and have been to many pharmaceutical company sponsored functions. Since 2006, these must be declared through Medicines Australia- see above link with Code of Conduct.

You know when you go to the chemist, and they ask you "would you like a generic brand; it's exactly the same, but cheaper".
Different circumstances because you are still getting the same product... If you buy Panadol Parcetamol or Home Brand Paracetamol, they are exactly the same product with different packaging.

They are not going to recommend a product that they make no margin on.

It's the same in any industry on earth where a sale is made.
Disagree, they are not allowed to make any margin (kickback) through prescribing. This is not an industry based on sales. I am not naive enought to say that this does not happen as there are unscrupulous doctors around - just as there are unethical people in any industry - I do however, believe the great majority prescribe what is in the patient's best interests. This is shown in the example given above by Blue Card.
 
I lost count of the number of free dinners and conferences I went to hosted by pharmie reps educating about new product. but that was all pre 2002.

Nowadays, i do get 'mine to keep' products (models, charts, orthopedic devices) from reps most months. They obviously want us to test them, then buy some.

GPs still get free sample packs (lots) of drugs that they give to patients. In some respects, that's a kick back for the GP cos he is generating goodwill with his patients via a freebie from the pharmies.
 
I have no idea of kickbacks or the like.

All I can contribute is what I have seen in Mexico- myself, my wife, her family, and my kids.

Every time somebody goes to the doctor for a general sickness they are prescribed antibiotics, usually by injection.

Granted that Mexico City is very polluted- and apparently, due to a huge number of people living in, and defecating in, the rubbish dumps, there is a high proportion of human faeces in the air they breath- so the treatment may be appropriate.

But there must be a huge intolerance building in this massive overprescription of antibiotics. (I'm in no way a medico, so I have no idea- but it seems way out of line with my experiences with doctors in Australia).
 
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