Pier/Bearer comments please?

[Loz]

Hi Everyone,

I am buying ... (trying to) buy my first property. PPOR actually - so I can step forth into the investment world...

I have made an offer on a house, it's been negotiated and a figure agreed upon - which is a pretty good price, I got my legals, finance, and finally received my pest & building reports - took a few more days than expected. not to worry!

Anyways... I haven't signed a contract yet (so the property can still be sold from under me - I'm aware of that...) and I'm a bit concerned with some things in the building report. I'm no way knowledgable with most things, especially piers and joists etc so I was hoping that maybe someone could make a few "general" (completely disclaimed) comments from the following pix? Please, if possible? I'm just not sure how bad it is... I know it's not good. I have been trying to contact the Inspector, but today he was very busy

The house is approx 30 yo Hardiplank (asbestos clad). Termite activity has been indicated, but no attack - adivised to have the place treated. It's been lived in by a family of 2 parents and 3 young boys. It's quite neglected on the surface, but I can see some potential for a cosmetic cleanup. It's the bigger things that I don't know about. I don't have a load of cash to throw into it - this would be a gradual project of love. and build equity.

The report has the following comments regarding the pics:

Structural Timbers Sitting on Piers: No
Recommendation: Load bearering timbers are not fully supported on piers, additional piering may become necessary within the near future.

Bearers Correctly in Place: No
Recommendation: Additional support timbers have been added to the bearers due to insufficient sizing possibly at the time of construcction - refer to previous recommendation.

Structural Repairs/Replacement Necessary: Yes

Additional comments: Sub structure load bearing timbers are not fully supported on piers, this appears to have been a fault created during the original construction, possible correction may be required should those timbers dislodge further.

How bad are these things? Am I looking at big dollars?

When I first spoke to the inspector I hadn't seen the report and he really scared me with all the troubles. Then when I read the report, the wording of all of the problems don't seem as urgent or important ie. "possible correction", "may become necessary within the near future" etc.

TIA for any comments or feedback.


PS. How troubling is it to have an easement through the property?
Report: There is a posibility that an easement runs through the rear yard area, this should be clarified prior to purchase.

 

[MichaelW]

Loz,

As daunting as it sounds, I don't think it is as bad as you might fear. From the description it sounds like its been that way since the property was originally built so there's no subsidence evidenced. If the piers are shifting then you run the risk of the house falling over, but if everything is stable, just under-spec'd then you might be OK with doing nothing. Just keep an eye on it once a year or so and make sure none of the piers have moved.

Even if you do decide to do something, then it should be just a case of re-inforcing your existing bearers. The bearers are the big planks which sit on the piers and carry all the joists. There is an Australian standard for the size of these bearers and joists depending on your pier centres. Joists typically are spaced every 450mm. Our house is a pole house with bearers and joists construction and we've had no issues but it was recently built to the Australian standard. Our neighbour to the left bought an old pole house and recently sured up some of the bearers and restumped a couple of piers. He's a builder by trade but the job didn't look too taxing and the materials would have certainly been under a few thousand dollars tops.

I'd use the "structural defect" as a hard negotiating point on price but recognise that its not too big an issue in reality.

Of course, I'm no expert, so take all this advice with a grain of salt.

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[RupertBC]

Loz,
hate to sound negative, but is an asbestos clad house really worth spending money on? If its 30 years old it will be asbestos (anything pre '86 from memory, has at least 5% content)
While its safe enough in situ, it's nasty stuff (you should avoid drilling into it, breaking it or cutting it) and it may put off prospective tenants and future buyers.
I recently de-clad a house in Launceston, unpleasant work in the full suit, gloves,mask etc. and expensive to dispose of.
The bearer situation is fixable, but I wouldn't spend the time or money on it simply because of the asbestos.
(I'm not a qualified builder but have renovated several houses and work sometimes as a handyman.)
If you have time, get further advice from a builder.

goodluck, RBC

 

[handyandy]

Hi Los

The under spec'd bearers appear to be 2x4 rather than 3x4 or 4x4. There must have been some bounce so they have put another 2x4 along side, but in part the new one is not sitting on the pier.

There are two option here (imo) 1) the cheap one, put a couple of bolts through the bearer to join the one that missed the pier to the one sitting on the pier. 2) Replace the pier realligning it to sit under the bearer.

Option one is nice and cheap and easy to do and in all likelyhood will fix the problem.

The question is, is it really a problem as Micheal has indicated the property has been standing for 30 years, are there any cracks? When you walk around or better jump does the floor bounce excessively? If there is no decernible bounce then there really is no problem.

Regarding the Termites. What is this termite activity if not attack?

I am just in the middle of fixing termite damage in a two story house. I really don't know how the house was still standing. One day I will get around to putting up the pics.

So far we have replaced six internal walls (there are only 7 walls) and a couple of sections of the external wall. We have had to introduce 3 steel RSJ's and 5 supporting uprights, weight of steel was about 800kg. Additionally we have had parrallel about half the 12 inch ceiling joists 5 were to replace termited members the rest were to extend to building into the extension strucuture.

Now when I bought this house in '95 I knew there was termite damage but that they were no longer active but I certainly did not know the extent of the damage inflicted. I did not do anything about the situation until now as it coincidese with an extension we are doing to the house. If we had been on a normal block I would have bulldozed the house but as we are on a bush block with a 45% slope it was just not practical.

Regarding the easement. An easement can impact what you can do with the property. Depending on the zone of influence, the foundations of the building have to extend below the curvature of the pipe in an easement. So if it is pipe related and the building is close enough then this needs to be checked. Council can clarify the type of easement and the restriction it will place on the property. Having bought property with easements I wuold tend to steer clear of them these days.

Cheers

 

[rambada]

An alternative we are doing is simple - supplement whats there. Get some steel 76 x 76 posts made up with a top plate (cheap) and bolt/screw to existing bearer. Dig a hole underneath 200mm wide and deep. Steel pole hangs into the hole if you get the idea. Then throw some concrete into the hole around the steel post and dome the top.

 

[willair]

Loz,
ask the real estate agent for a property details plan,if there is a easement find out
yourself what the easement is used for i would sort this out first..the bricklayer who
layed the piers must have had a problem with the string line, i do not like the
sub floor layout in the photos,plus the problem with asbestos be very carefull with
this property.....
good luck....
willair.........

 

[Loz]

Thanks!

Hi Everyone!

Thank you so much for your replies. a) informative & b) useful - which is why I love this community!!

I withdrew from the sale. I spoke to the Building inspector after I had read a couple of your replies. He said the asbestos (Hardiplank) was in reasonable condition and all I had to do was to keep it clean and painted, then it would be alright, and not sand or drill holes. Still wasn't convincing enough for me to be comfortable with it.

Then he said that the house was built with cheap and nasty materials and evidently done hurriedly - corners were cut everywhere (there were no cornices anywhere - agent first told me it was fashionable in the 70s...Sometimes playing dumb is such a challenge).

The Inspector listed lots of little things and a few bigger ones and I was writing them all down and when he'd nearly finished, we had got up to $15 000 and it was still going. I then commented, if I did buy the house, did all of these things mentioned, it wouldn't even add a scrap of value to the house....No.

I negotiated $27 000 from the asking price - down to nearly land value. The vendors wouldn't budge any more so I wasn't willing to go through with the sale. If I had more cash available, it would have been ideal. I knew that they were desperate to sell too.

Well, I've learned some valuable things and paid a small fortune instead being stuck with a mortgage for a money sponge. I would ideally like a place that is structurally sound and only needs cosmetic attention, so the hunt continues!

Thanks again for all of your ideas, suggestions and information. I'm sure I'll be back again with more questions!

Enjoy your weekend!